Messianic Complex

[blue lunar night]

I will honestly admit that I ran out of weed and was seeing the world through poop colored glasses.

LOL I can totally empathize !!!
:roll:

 

[Tokapelli]

lol happens to the best of us man! Its amazing how quickly the bullshit of babylon can take over without a little subtle guidance from Ms Jane. Im glad to see your hiatus didnt last long. I dont know anythign about your beliefs yet but one of these days im just gonna do some snooping and read thru some of your previous posts, because i am very interested in what you are saying. I think organized religions can provide a very good foundation for people, but at the same time that knowledge can blind you (and i believe this is true with anything not just religion).

 

[Guyomech]

Welcome back man!

(*virtual toke...virtual pass)

 

[Crazyhorse]

Now looking back I feel like a fool.

Speaking of "fools", I wonder why HSF isn't all up in this. Seems like he's been absent recently.

 

[Eliyahu]

Now looking back I feel like a fool.

Speaking of "fools", I wonder why HSF isn't all up in this. Seems like he's been absent recently.

Yeah ....where is that guy? Should we send a search party out into Hyperspace?

 

[Strangeling]

Really interesting thread guys, I find it kinda funny that spiritual beliefs can carry such a great weight and even turn to thousand year arguments. Could you imagine what it would have been like thousands of years ago? When the new prophets of their age like Christ and Mohammed first walked out of the desert (that is of course if they really existed), when their only forums were town squares and word of mouth? I mean its kinda far out, but we're coming into a new age of our own, I'd hate to think that a small discussion on a forum like this might in a couple thousand years of broken telephone, turn into some sort of holy war.

 

[jamie]

Whenever I think of reincarnation I think of this quote from waking life :lol:

Everybody always says that they've been the reincarnation of Cleopatra or Alexander the Great. I always want to tell them they were probably some dumb fuck like everybody else. I mean, it's impossible. Think about it. The world population has doubled in the past 40 years, right? So if you really believe in that ego thing of one eternal soul, then you have only 50% chance of your soul being over 40. And for it to be over 150 years old, then it's only one out of six.

I dont believe in reincarnation in the conventional sense.

I experienced reincarnation directly on a dose of ayahuasca(and a very light dose at that). I was meditating in bed on a dose that was sort of on the visionary threshhold..and then I fell into a sort of half asleap alpha trance or something.

All of this came in a fast download. I experience my entire lineage of ancestors, or family tree as a sort of morphic field or wave of information and consciousness that is carried over to each person in that lineage like a node..like another new bud on a tree. In this way we are all little node like expression of this complicated morphogenetic equation, the sum of all of our ancestral interactions.

I am literally the reincarnation of both my mother and my father, but because I am the sum of both of them combined I am "new"..or they have evoloved. It does not end there though, I am also my grandparents and their parents and they're parents..and they all have multiple incarnations walking the earth at this time..all taken slightly different paths..for I have a brother, a sister, aunts, uncles and cousins etc..I will also be reincarnated though my children..

When you go all the way back all life is the reincarnation of some kind of primordial life..and the first life is the reincarnation of whatever it is that preceeded it.

Now, this was not an idea I had or some kind of revelation. This was something I experienced directly, as I literally was these all of these people..I was my ancestors and I experienced multiple reincarnations..all the way up to the birth of my daughter(I have no kids atm). I experienced my own(this me) reincarnation through her conception and she was actaully to carry on part my own path in a way, but better by becomming this amazing surfer and actaully making a career out of it. I experienced all of this as a sort of hyper-experiencial download in maybe 10 seconds.

Basically, all life is one large hyperorganism. I guess the whole universe it. You alone are not the reincarnation of anyone. There are many variations of reincarnated "souls" all walking around at the same time. The genetric information passed on through sperm/eggs and this sort of morphic field is what facilitates this. You may have more "heiloom" traits from one of your previous incarnations than someone else who also has some of that past incarnation in them as well though-such as you having more of your father in you than your children will, simply because of the complexity of branching that takes place within the genetic lineage..though this might not be true always because sometimes certain genes can just be more expressed in one person than in another for w/e reason..

Anyway it's weird.

 

[jamie]

I also think that when people remember one single past life or w/e they may be somehow tuning into one single node within an extremely compex morphic web of these nodes that does not follow the sort on linear progression described in most past life literature. There would be many alternative nodes that branch off in many horizontal directions within the space time continuum, and at the same time others will be able to channel those same information highways.

This also might not be just a horizonal/lateral thing..it's probly beyond spacial in the conventional sense and is a dimensional thing also..this is just my own speculation though.

 

[polytrip]

Whenever I think of reincarnation I think of this quote from waking life :lol:

Everybody always says that they've been the reincarnation of Cleopatra or Alexander the Great. I always want to tell them they were probably some dumb fuck like everybody else. I mean, it's impossible. Think about it. The world population has doubled in the past 40 years, right? So if you really believe in that ego thing of one eternal soul, then you have only 50% chance of your soul being over 40. And for it to be over 150 years old, then it's only one out of six.

I dont believe in reincarnation in the conventional sense.

I experienced reincarnation directly on a dose of ayahuasca(and a very light dose at that). I was meditating in bed on a dose that was sort of on the visionary threshhold..and then I fell into a sort of half asleap alpha trance or something.

All of this came in a fast download. I experience my entire lineage of ancestors, or family tree as a sort of morphic field or wave of information and consciousness that is carried over to each person in that lineage like a node..like another new bud on a tree. In this way we are all little node like expression of this complicated morphogenetic equation, the sum of all of our ancestral interactions.

I am literally the reincarnation of both my mother and my father, but because I am the sum of both of them combined I am "new"..or they have evoloved. It does not end there though, I am also my grandparents and their parents and they're parents..and they all have multiple incarnations walking the earth at this time..all taken slightly different paths..for I have a brother, a sister, aunts, uncles and cousins etc..I will also be reincarnated though my children..

When you go all the way back all life is the reincarnation of some kind of primordial life..and the first life is the reincarnation of whatever it is that preceeded it.

Now, this was not an idea I had or some kind of revelation. This was something I experienced directly, as I literally was these all of these people..I was my ancestors and I experienced multiple reincarnations..all the way up to the birth of my daughter(I have no kids atm). I experienced my own(this me) reincarnation through her conception and she was actaully to carry on part my own path in a way, but better by becomming this amazing surfer and actaully making a career out of it. I experienced all of this as a sort of hyper-experiencial download in maybe 10 seconds.

Basically, all life is one large hyperorganism. I guess the whole universe it. You alone are not the reincarnation of anyone. There are many variations of reincarnated "souls" all walking around at the same time. The genetric information passed on through sperm/eggs and this sort of morphic field is what facilitates this. You may have more "heiloom" traits from one of your previous incarnations than someone else who also has some of that past incarnation in them as well though-such as you having more of your father in you than your children will, simply because of the complexity of branching that takes place within the genetic lineage..though this might not be true always because sometimes certain genes can just be more expressed in one person than in another for w/e reason..

Anyway it's weird.

This is also how i look at reincarnation. We carry all of our ancesters with us somehow. Everything that they didn´t resolve we will have to, or otherwise we will pass it on to the next generation, and then they will have to deal with all of the problems that we couldn´t solve. We don´t just pass on our DNA. We also pass our ideas and beliefs, habits, ways of looking at the world, etc, on to our ofspring. The good and the bad stuff, everything we are. The idea of the human mind as a computer is too simple. There is no clear distinction between harware and software. Our hardware changes with every new bit of input.

 

[Guyomech]

Between Jamie and polytrip, that's just about the most rational description of reincarnation I've ever heard.

Jamie: that sounds like a truly mind-blowing vision.

 

[universecannon]

Yeah great description jamie/poly..that's often how i view it as well

 

[No Knowing]

Awesome thread, I definitely resonate with alot of the responses here. Even before I tried psychedelics at a young age I always felt like the only way for my life to be worth living was to "make history", after diving into entheogenic work my ego definitely ballooned and then painfully deflated.

Annihilating the ego and then rebuilding it countless times, seems to swell its importance in the mind during the beginning of trip-work IMO. Early in entheogenic work, one enjoys rebuilding their ego after ego-shattering experiences, sometimes making it even more grandiose than pre-trip. As tripping deepens(or one experiences a painful ego deflation experience[bad-trip, addiction, social isolation, etc.]) IMO one begins to take the ego off its pedestal and not trash it,(another pitfall IMO) but put it in a subservient pet-like position to a greater sense of self.

I definitely agree with the other Nexian who said dissociatives contribute greatly to this and can even lead to a very solipsistic view of reality.

About "messiahs", it seems like to me, that the people who cause a stir socially or politically actually cause more harm to other people and the earth. Those people who work on artistic endeavors or just attempt to become and be the best themself they can, appear more helpful to positive world change than the Che's, Lenin's, Marx's, Jesus' or even Leary's.(Revolutionaries) These men definitely changed reality through their life and ideas but their contribution is always neutral, not really totally beneficial, or harmful.

Dealing with the historical karma of enacting world change is not a goal of mine anymore. I'd rather help people's lives in the now with art, music, and good company.

Being yourself and living an enjoyable self and social life contributes to healing the earth just as much, or more, than contributing to revolutionary change. IMHO.

 

[Eliyahu]

Jamie that was really enjoyable to read, have you considered writing a book or something bro?

 

[RayTracer]

Thank you so much Guyomech for bringing this up. I have been dealing with this all week. Last weekend while at my brothers I broke through. I was standing on a rock in the middle of space being shown the Univers and its secrets. Afterwards I was given a talisman and told that I had passed all of the tests.

A sliding dojo door appeared like a portal. I was then ushered into this extremely busy room with all of this advanced technology. It was all so casual to these entities...like it was always going on. After discussing my particular case I was taken to this balcony where I was shown the planet I was to preside over. I was standing on this intergalactic balcony like some scene out of a WWII documentary.

I was told that because I was such a good person yadayada that I was now in control of this part of the Universe. I remember thinking how am I suppose to eat now. Will they bring me food LOL. My brother was actually sitting on the ground looking up at the Moon. I thought he was bowing to me. Then I started to sober up and realized I was just tripping. OMFG! I was soooo confused.

What I took from this Godhead experience was that yes, life in a way is a test. I was shown that every decision has consequences. Its not that I'm going to be the chosen one or whatever, but I do believe that our choices not only have consequences in this life for us and the people around us, but after our death as well. Great topic. I am so glad to hear I'm not the only one to have had this happen.

[]DEACE

 

[RayTracer]

ya know i think were all talkin about the same exact stuff here, just giving it different labels. We gotta figure out a better way to communicate these words are so outdated! lol.

This Messiah type of thing is very interesting, reminds me of Tools Lost Keys and Rosetta Stoned "Me, the chosen one, and I never even graduated out of fucking high school" or something like that lol(followed by a crazy sick base line of course lol).
Its crazy that somethign can be so humbling, then turn around and inflate your ego more than it ever has been before.
I kinda look at this as the teacher showing us one side of the paradox at a time. We are all "the chosen one". Kinda how this lakota elder Black Elk said that the top of harney peak is the center of the universe, but there are many centers of the universe.

It doesnt make any sense, and thats when I just sit back and smile, remind myslef that life is a paradox. So if it doenst make any sense I must be on to something! lol

Right on man. We all got the same invitation (life). We are all chosen indeed. The numbers alone are incredible. Widdle it down to Nexians and yes, we are all extremely unique. I truly believe that to all of the people that somehow put this into motion ie. the ones that were drawn to the light like moths...researching, discovering, seeking, and in most of our cases actually creating this catalyst...to this I say WOW.

[]DEACE

 

[Lagomorph]

I would paraphrase it something like this: before saving the world, you should save yourself first, you fool!

Haha... I got this straight up from aya once. Saving the world? CLEAN YOUR APARTMENT. Thanks mom!

I experience my entire lineage of ancestors, or family tree as a sort of morphic field or wave of information and consciousness that is carried over to each person in that lineage like a node..like another new bud on a tree. In this way we are all little node like expression of this complicated morphogenetic equation, the sum of all of our ancestral interactions.

This makes a lot of sense to me in the context of Family Constellations work and how strangers who don't know you and don't know they have your mom's name written on the folded index card in their pocket nevertheless are, within the field of information in which the work takes place, able to embody and express your mom's characteristics.

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

GUYOMECH

There is no messiac complex. on acid... you just rode a BIG wave of unconscious lightening

...of god

Hold onto these experiences. But follow what few conscious parameters as soberly as the twelve step.

You just have the luck of being who YOU are. Trust me.


I Absolutely can relate... this is one of mine: (NOTE that it's long) on 3 to 6 tabs of asid


T=20.) I nervously begin telepathizing with friends on a deep interpersonal level as we pass the pipe- deeper than they were willing as I thought of treating them like they were everyone I will meet and wish to treat. Than the LSD started making the air thick with weridness.

T=40 Everything we could talk about controversially... I didactically oriented into a down with the establishment manner as if I were a radicalist with a megaphone in a poetic sort of testifying way,

T=50 I remember accidentally controlling peoples thought (who took less acid than I did) everyone's attention was on me idk why, continuing when I accidentally approached them all with question; 'whose thoughts are we sharing?' as I flickered the lamp light on and off. My friends started getting really weirded out by me. I felt like their thoughts were all chasing mine as I was their's galvanizing this weird imposing impression of having eye balls on the back of my head.

T=1:00 + two or three more hits
At this point everyone is getting really uneasy. (Did my Ego devour theirs?) watching as their thoughts feebly chase me- mimicking the reality of this pursuit I ran and jumped off the chair to the kitchen for some water- in mid air feeling really clear headed actually. Along my way as I walk inside this rather large house away from them all I had this alarming external/spiritual feeling like I AM superman... (in lack of a better word) and suddenly I started seeing these electric swirling pools of green light merge with red, orange, back to green and blue with violet protruding viels of holy light surrounding me just off the tip of my periphery- I remember thinking is this my aura? Although a skeptic, agnostic or whatever. I felt like I was god - as I walked away from them to rationalize my arrogant form. While trying reconcile my achievement into superego (self adoration) all this and why it is masked with my favorite poets?? as I went around knowing in some under-exagerated stoic consolation like I was god, as if I understood what it was, who I was...
I felt... real for the FIRST time in my life, and registering that pushed me into the other side... than things started speeding up as I grocked it ALL head first.

T=1:30 These extra hits came on like a tornado and I went from mad to bezerk as all my friends who sitting quietly speechlessly. At some what of a friend tryed to calm me down as I sat alone on a bed, he was speaking eerily and i couldn't pay much attention as I thought ny god are these hits are doing their job. And for reasons to blame on lsd I saw this shotgun mounted on the wall, and had this hallucination of him shooting me with it, over and over and over. I got up nervously and walked out of the room and literally forgot it all. while a qaurter of my mind. still lingering on sudden death I panicked,

T=2:00 The LSD shattered my ego? and revealed it for the worm it really is? I remained largely unconscious for the most part of the rest of this. Fear raised up in torrents, after having dreams about 2012 -out of my mind I said to myself (other wise I was almost entirely silent) The comet is going to hit now, Seeing in my mind far from neptune as it passed time was not the detail my cracking mind thought it's going to come, and oh it's going to hurt, Oh no! I ran into the bathroom ducking in the tub holding- doing this I felt I was releasing from my body and the bathroom took on this malevolent qaulity, I felt like child in the body of an adult only this adult was so damn clueless, I felt it was he who was an insect squrimming before the careless world, as all this pathetic weird animal's fear and turned him into a mere heap of organs, a worm or better yet literally nothing. This was a rude awakening for both this viewer and the little me...

T=2:15 Laying in the bathtub still I realised I had went through utter hell, a hell? or my hell. or whoever's back there yet I camed unscathed as if nothing happened as I dreamily awaken by observing water dripping from the corroded nose of a faucet onto a modly brown stain draining away the slow sounds. after that my stream of conscious thought cleansed by a subconcscious filter of forgetfulness. What I felt then was like one of my warrior like one of my MANY ancestor's courage to rise as if reimmerging into battle. Visions poured into me traveling miles away overtook me I felt so free running in the grass, through the forest where I saw flashes of brothers and sisters running/flying beside me. As if I was a child again running in the soft grass with my friends. Only this fantasy dragged me up on my feet and we were all holding hands naked- a split second felt like eternity. Through the trees, in the forest everywhere all of us were racing toward something.

T=2:25 The vision lulls me out of the tub noticing as everything is bright! I start seeing things differently -no longer aware of the acid. I rose above my former ashes and everyone seemed so paculiar- I looked at this girl who was my long time friend and I spoke her name. Everyone was so weirded out by me still- I felt it and returned them with the gratitude I showed them earlyer but, only a thousand times more. I felt stronger, but less able to discourse heavily... Looking at them stare at me... Everything about them the delusions of hallucinating minf loosely assoiciating the way they dressed green and blue clothers symbolized to me of the people on earth back there- where love is I imagined african tribes singing as one of my friends was black on the outside . My other aqaintance friend who idly lounged with a hood appeared to me like the same homeless people I used to sleep with on the streets and feed and protect while hitch hiking two thousand miles 2 two months prior to all this. I was reminded of how passionate I was to help others in need? Nevertheless I doubted myself as to why I couldn't look past his shabby appearance.

T=2:45 A person in my mind told me, R____ remember the steps. I went walking between every room fishing for what dark room scares me the most to remember at least one thing. But upon walking back into the kitchen. as everyone followed me there It ALL snapped together. I had pushed myself away from people. Just as the epiphany struck me. Still seeing the spirits of everyone I felt like the one alive one as a crowd of their blissfully enfold me. passing through me suddenly. I looked up at the cieling getting higher and higher until it was shaped like a blue and golden marble diamond rudded dome made of crystalline pure light. My eye lids sank standing there as my arms involuntarily spread out. I see the outline of the blue dome making a mandala where I 'am the center of everything doing everything at all times in one shakespearian motion like sweep. All the people that I loved, how my eyes always meet their faces no matter how frightened, sad, angry, happy. my prowess as a man and a lover watching myself act as if in a midnight summer's dream. Traveling through mandalas- they are real places you know? allusive doorways, walls that dislocate, all orchestrated by this incredibly prankish profusion of colorful notions signifying where things end or begin, as you soberly and seriously trace grand architecture whose hidden contours lead you into dark tomb color'd blue corridors of endlessness. Everything that's ever preoccupied your mind eagerly awaits you, to dangle before your eyes jewels, the sense of the scheme of things seems to straigten your tie as if they were a soul mate who bumped into you. I realise I 'am the most beautiful person in the world. so in touch with the world, nature, people, and everything that want's to be seen. where I first realise I love myself.

T=3:50 I feel god all around me showering me in pure light. I can't say it's just euphoria, or joy, or happiness. It was love and all the above. I felt touched by god who has all the sudden in my life made it's existence obvious and noticing it come as my friends gather and hold me as I lean my face- eyes close up into the light I feel as if despite everything I went through I should share just an ounce of this. I awaken again- this girl who was my closest friend asked, "R____, did you just say 'I thought nobody could touch god?" I looked to her, and them all staring close by looking at her whose utterly inquisitive face turned from that within a moment to the most angelic person I've ever seen. In and out my desire came and left to tell her what we truely are to one another in and out -love (thought)-not love (thought) and said shyly, ceasing the feeling then "Yeah I guess so, are you doing okay, A__?"

T=4:10 It was thought that my erratic behaviour was thought to be of some cause to brink a flying saucer right over their house, They called me and my friend to come watch it, but we were too busy staring into eachothers eyes to care.
My words still fail me, but The End.

 

[polytrip]

lol happens to the best of us man! Its amazing how quickly the bullshit of babylon can take over without a little subtle guidance from Ms Jane.

When you say bye to miss jane for a few days or weeks more, you´ll start noticing that most of this 'bullshit of babylon' is actually nothing but some minor inconveniences.

What you´re experiencing are actually just cannabis withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

so clearly ego started out in Mesopotamia in the Akkadian empire in the 3rd century bc.

Or do we secretly envisage certain peaceful nomadic who are more or less outcasts of society because they think so differently that the only way they can cope with themselves in life is to escape into the deserts to pray that they aren't so abnormal, but find instead something to like about themselves that nobody else understands?

I'm sorry is this what we call ego?

I think people made up the ghost called EGO much like they invented the devil and hell... which is actually a burning trash pit Isreal authorities threatened to send people if they did anything bad.

Ego like evil is just an abstract idea created out of the near sighted inflexibility of intellectual or intuitive will.

"like anybody who believes in the devil is the devil" -R.B

so too does the beholder becomes what he beholds.

 

[RayTracer]

Oh nelly. Withdrawals are a bitch man. I've kicked (the term kick comes from the fact that your legs flail like your dying) heroin no less then 6x.

Methadone was the worst though. That shit gets in your marrow man, it takes months until you can really sleep. I've never been a big pothead, but anytime I hear about withdrawals from meth, coke, pot etc.....I just have to laugh, because none of those give you real physical withdrawals like the opiate family. Trust me, if you've experienced it you will know. It is hell. Never again!!!