Messianic Complex

[polytrip]

Oh nelly. Withdrawals are a bitch man. I've kicked (the term kick comes from the fact that your legs flail like your dying) heroin no less then 6x.

Methadone was the worst though. That shit gets in your marrow man, it takes months until you can really sleep. I've never been a big pothead, but anytime I hear about withdrawals from meth, coke, pot etc.....I just have to laugh, because none of those give you real physical withdrawals like the opiate family. Trust me, if you've experienced it you will know. It is hell. Never again!!!

Yes you´re right. Opiate, alcohol and GHB withdrawals are worse, physically than those of the other addictive substances.

A major part of addiction though, is in the mind. Pain itself is not that difficult to endure when you feel you´re up to it. But when you feel like you´re not up to anything....

The human body has it´s own endogenous cannabinoids, very appropriately named endocannabinoids, just like it has it´s own opiates, endorphins. And like endorphines are released to regulate pain, the endocannabinoids are a natural tranquilizer, meant to regulate physical but mostly psychological stress. And just like the body eventually get´s used to a daily intake of opiates, it will also get used to a daily intake of cannabis. And adjust. When someone who´s been smoking cannabis every day for a long time, suddenly has to go without, he will experience exactly all of those feelings of stress that would normally be dampened to the extreme. This is actually a physical mechanism that can be seen on brainscans. It is not a persons legs or intestines that suffer a withdrawal mechanism, but the persons brain. How someone experiences this may differ in each individual, just like feelings of stress differ from person to person. But it´s very real nevertheless.

Eliyahu describes these symptoms as: 'seeing the world through poop-colored glasses'. Tokapelli says that 'the bullshit of babylon takes over'. With that he seems to mean that he experiences the world as whicked (babylon), that the whickedness of the world (babylon´s bullshit) invades his private, personal sphere and 'takes over'. In other words, he feels that sensations of discomfort start to take control over his very being when his intake of cannabis is interrupted. When this happens, someone will automatically want those feelings to go away and thus starts to crave for that wich he has learned to automatically associate with the absence of discomfort: the substance.

This is the cycle of addiction. It can be very hard to quit any of those addictive substances. Considering the fact that some people have lost everything, and i mean with that realy EVERYTHING they had to the so called one armed bandit, wich isn´t even a substance, i would say that psychological mechanisms of addiction are actually the main problem. People have no problem going through a week or even a few months of serious pain when they know it is absolutely necessary for their survival, for instance, when they have a tumor that needs to be removed. Hardly anybody says: 'oh no, i don´t want surgery, i´d rather just die'. So it´s not the pain that makes any substance so hard to quit. It´s also clear that when a person would have the choice, he would not choose to loose all he has in the casino. No, the problem is the mental part of it. And in the case of cannabis, their is a clear physical mechanism behind this mental part of the addiction.

People these days go to rehab clinic´s because they cannot quit smoking cannabis by themselves, and because this habit is destroying their lives. Seriously.

I personally didn´t need to go to a clinic. But i´ve had a period of maybe a whole year where i woke-up every day saying to myself: 'today i´m gonna quit smoking weed'. And every single day i managed to have found an excuse why that day wasn´t a good day, and to smoke the stuff anyway. Because that´s exactly what these cannabis withdrawals do: they get inside your head, they´ll make you find excuses, they will make you feel like you´re not up to it.

You are probably right that opiate withdrawals are a lot more serious. But i do want to rub it in, when people cannot function normally without cannabis. Because people do need to be aware that it´s not just harmless fun.

And when you smoke the stuff on a daily basis, chances are that you are actually paying the bullits, fired in senseless gang-wars. All the reasons to adress the issue.

 

[somaeye]

lol happens to the best of us man! Its amazing how quickly the bullshit of babylon can take over without a little subtle guidance from Ms Jane.

Walk while you have the Light,
that the darkness may not overtake you;
those who walk in the dark do not know where they are going.
While you have the Light,
believe in the Light
that you may be children of Light
--St. John, 12,35

 

[somaeye]

lol happens to the best of us man! Its amazing how quickly the bullshit of babylon can take over without a little subtle guidance from Ms Jane.

This is the cycle of addiction. It can be very hard to quit any of those addictive substances.

You could say that people are "addicted" to breathing. The withdrawal symptoms are certainly worse than heroin or methadone - and more deadly.

But people don't usually consider that breathing is an addiction because it's good for you.

Similarly, it's good for people to be conscious. And since God, (Psychedelics/Marijuana) is the essence of Consciousness, I wouldn't consider it an addiction to want to be with Them.

 

[Eliyahu]

polytrip,

I agree with what you said...I have been smoking daily for 20 years so with few breaks..

I admit I'm a living example of what your saying.. Except for the paying for the bullits of gangs part. I get my weed from hippies, they may have slingshots but that's about it.

But yeah, I personally think the addictive potential of cannabis is under rated big time.

By the same token I continue to do what I do because I choose to do it and I accept full responsibility.

 

[Tokapelli]

lol happens to the best of us man! Its amazing how quickly the bullshit of babylon can take over without a little subtle guidance from Ms Jane.

When you say bye to miss jane for a few days or weeks more, you´ll start noticing that most of this 'bullshit of babylon' is actually nothing but some minor inconveniences.

What you´re experiencing are actually just cannabis withdrawal symptoms.

lol I wish this was the case man. Its more than just minor inconvienences, its my infinite self recognizing that this IS NOT the way I should be living. I sit in front of a computer for 8 hrs a day with a headset strapped to my face, doing customer service for a credit card company. I get about 100 calls/day, and 9/10 of them start with "Look here you (expletive deleted) (expletive delted), Let me tell you why YOU are the scum of the earth!" I am literally bombarded with extreme negativity all day every day. Now most of the time when this happens, i put the phone on mute, take a breath sit back and chuckle to myself a bit, but god only knows how long i could keep that up without some sublte guidance from Ms Jane. I spend 5 days of the week just wishing it was the last 2 days. Thats 260 days of my life i am giving away every year, just so i can afford to buy the shit that mother earth could provide for me anyway. I eat for my food as Ziggy said. Now maybe if I didnt smoke so much damn weed id have the amition to change these circumstances lol.


and yea im not paying for the bullets of gangs lol, that is like something you would hear on refer madness. I know where it comes from, just guys like me that got sick of working in a call center to pay the rent lol.

 

[Guyomech]

You know, I truly enjoy my cannabis habit... I'll admit it. What polytrip says is absolutely true, though, and if my THC-clogged memory serves me correctly, Eliyahu has commented that he thinks his weed consumption is excessive.

I'm at a point where it's usually two small bowls a day... Premium stuff, but I'll make an ounce last 6-8 weeks depending on the flow of guests. So skipping a day or more is no big deal, which allows me to visit our somewhat square relatives for a week, that kind of thing, without it being an issue. If not having weed is a problem, then having it is a bigger one. But I am one of those people who struggle with negative attitude problems, anxiety and a general sense of irritation, and without the herb I'd be a prime candidate for Prozac or some other crap like that. Perhaps I'm just making excuses, but I do believe a healthy balance can be found where the benefits of cannabis can be enjoyed without the heavy dependence, health issues and other things that can drag a person down.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the OP, but I wanted to address Polytrip's post, as he makes some very valid points.

 

[Tokapelli]

alright Poly i apologize, i got a little offended at first, before reading your longer post. It makes more sense when you explain it that way, and sadly i have to admit that you are mostly correct.

And very well put btw Guy.

 

[I am.]

its funny how the kind of things that are supposed to make your ego fall apart,sometimes do the exact opposite, and blow our ego completely out of proportions....

i saw an old quote one day that read:
"the ego is a subtle foe for the mere act of fighting it only makes it stronger." it was accredited to nietzsche when i saw the quote though now i can't find it on the web.

i think it's a natural little phase for a psychonaut to go through. thinking you are THE ONE is an easy thought to get stuck on because quite honestly, you are THE ONE. thing is, he's THE ONE, she's THE ONE, i'm THE ONE. we are all one. as you rip your ego to shreds you come into contact with the oneness that is. so, effectually, you are THE ONE.

like mon was saying, you needn't take everything to the bank once you come back. take time to integrate before you believe ANYTHING you saw OVER THERE.

 

[polytrip]

alright Poly i apologize, i got a little offended at first, before reading your longer post. It makes more sense when you explain it that way, and sadly i have to admit that you are mostly correct.

And very well put btw Guy.

I know how it feels, you know. I have a love/hate relationship with that plant. Never more than just a few times a month for me or i´m back right where i was.

 

[I am.]

i'm reminded of tool lyrics over this topic, too. from the song rosetta stoned, the song that is actually talking about him smoking DMT and meeting an alien. here's some lyrics fur ya:

And after calming me down
with some orange slices
and some fetal spooning,
E.T. revealed to me his singular purpose.
He said, "You are the Chosen One,
the One who will deliver the message.
A message of hope for those who choose to hear it
and a warning for those who do not."
Me. The Chosen One?
They chose me!!!
And I didn't even graduate from fuckin' high school.

...

Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the One
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.


(END OF LYRICS)
right there you have maynard talking about being the one after smoking dmt. i'd say it's purdy common. just part of the path...

 

[JacksonMetaller]

I would certainly hope I'm not one of these people... But I do notice that ones ego is like skin. The more you pick at it and prod it and tear it up, the tougher it comes back. I have some high dosing friends who I've watched transform over their psychedelics journeys from happy-go-lucky to arrogant know-it-all pricks. One in particular is always trying to outdo everyone when it comes to psychedelics. Posts all these facebook status's of "peace and love", "unity", "be yourself", etc but in real life it's "Whoa. Why do you ask such dumb questions. Look how much drugs I do and then look at how much drugs you do."
I'm not saying that's the fate for everyone who doses that high, I just don't think it's very uncommon.

 

[Tokapelli]

I Am-

thanks man! i was trying to reference that earlier but ive never been able to understand the majority of what he was saying.

 

[Crazyhorse]

I Am-

thanks man! i was trying to reference that earlier but ive never been able to understand the majority of what he was saying.

I think that's part of the point, he wants you to have to work a little to understand it.

The part of that song I'm curious about is the "Sunkist & Sudafed" line. I looked it up once and found a few places saying it was a reference to a way of making DMT. I'd be very interested in finding out if there's anything to that "tek". :lol: Forget ordering MHRB lets head to the grocery store for some orange soda and allergy medicine!

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

to me term Ego can be conjugated as the driving to attempt to change the world. -throwing off the status quo and tampering with your immediate environment to achieve what you want, more often to change it for the better, but as our lesser desire gets a hold over us along the way... with our egos surcharged with morale embedded in unconscious- doubt interacts with our fragile minds in the form of coming short to our desires where we have tried to actually aspire for Life per'se more humbly.

So our problems are not ego... it's actually due to the lack there of.

lack of self-esteem?

So instead of just saying that'll never happen for me. build yourself up and say yeah it can.

this I THINK is where 'Ego' comes in and we are on the top of the wave so to speak.

Ego is just believing yourself. And well what if you believed in yourself so much that you felt as strong, or loving as a messiah. well that's okay, but what if you are even more holier than that?

what if the messianic complex was JUST the beginning for you?

We're not just a bunch of apes with ego trips we are almost literally capable of anything no matter how rich or famous you think you have to be. As long as you believe in WHO you REALLY are there are no limits to what form you truly desire.

we must be honest to our selves... like is this what I really want? and a little ego is okay... infact studies have shown irrational thinking to be more healthy for you than its nemesis.

Thank you

 

[DMTripper]

....But I am one of those people who struggle with negative attitude problems, anxiety and a general sense of irritation, and without the herb I'd be a prime candidate for Prozac or some other crap like that.

I struggled too with negative attitude problems and I was full of anxiety and I always thought cannabis was helping me cope. The only times I felt ok was when I was high. But then at the end I wasn't even getting high. Cannabis wasn't working for me anymore. Just making me lazy and lethargic.
After many years I realised cannabis was the cause of these emotions and all that crap. It took me months after quitting to get rid of the anxiety and depression. But today I don't smoke cannabis and hopefully I never will again. It did good things for me until I got addicted to it. If we were meant to be high on weed all days, our brain would probably make the thc for us.

I think polytrip's post was very good.

Thank you.

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

I struggled too with negative attitude problems and I was full of anxiety and I always thought cannabis was helping me cope.
Until I realised cannabis was the cause of these emotions and all that crap. It took me months after quitting to get rid of the anxiety and depression. But today I don't smoke cannabis and hopefully I never will again. It did good things for me until I got addicted to it. If we were meant to be high on weed all days, our brain would probably make the thc for us.

I think polytrip's post was very good.

Thank you.

Look... everything in moderation guys, any drug can become psychologically addicting and they certainly do make controversial cases- but

if taken once or twice within two weeks you'll be JUST FINE! :thumb_up:

thank you for posting about your addiction for the sake of education

 

[Crazyhorse]

I struggled too with negative attitude problems and I was full of anxiety and I always thought cannabis was helping me cope. The only times I felt ok was when I was high. But then at the end I wasn't even getting high. Cannabis wasn't working for me anymore. Just making me lazy and lethargic.
After many years I realised cannabis was the cause of these emotions and all that crap. It took me months after quitting to get rid of the anxiety and depression. But today I don't smoke cannabis and hopefully I never will again. It did good things for me until I got addicted to it. If we were meant to be high on weed all days, our brain would probably make the thc for us.

QFT. All this has been equally true for me. I never would have thought the thing I was using to try and calm my anxiety, was actually the cause of so much of it. It took a powerful "lesson" from mushrooms last newyears to open my eyes to how it was really affecting me, and another 4-6 months to gradually give it up.

 

[cyb]

I dont believe in reincarnation in the conventional sense. etc...

Anyway it's weird.

Fantastic post Jamie...nuff said.

 

[VIII]

I dont believe in reincarnation in the conventional sense.

I experienced reincarnation directly on a dose of ayahuasca(and a very light dose at that). I was meditating in bed on a dose that was sort of on the visionary threshhold..and then I fell into a sort of half asleap alpha trance or something.

All of this came in a fast download. I experience my entire lineage of ancestors, or family tree as a sort of morphic field or wave of information and consciousness that is carried over to each person in that lineage like a node..like another new bud on a tree. In this way we are all little node like expression of this complicated morphogenetic equation, the sum of all of our ancestral interactions.

I am literally the reincarnation of both my mother and my father, but because I am the sum of both of them combined I am "new"..or they have evoloved. It does not end there though, I am also my grandparents and their parents and they're parents..and they all have multiple incarnations walking the earth at this time..all taken slightly different paths..for I have a brother, a sister, aunts, uncles and cousins etc..I will also be reincarnated though my children..

When you go all the way back all life is the reincarnation of some kind of primordial life..and the first life is the reincarnation of whatever it is that preceeded it.

Now, this was not an idea I had or some kind of revelation. This was something I experienced directly, as I literally was these all of these people..I was my ancestors and I experienced multiple reincarnations..all the way up to the birth of my daughter(I have no kids atm). I experienced my own(this me) reincarnation through her conception and she was actaully to carry on part my own path in a way, but better by becomming this amazing surfer and actaully making a career out of it. I experienced all of this as a sort of hyper-experiencial download in maybe 10 seconds.

Basically, all life is one large hyperorganism. I guess the whole universe it. You alone are not the reincarnation of anyone. There are many variations of reincarnated "souls" all walking around at the same time. The genetric information passed on through sperm/eggs and this sort of morphic field is what facilitates this. You may have more "heiloom" traits from one of your previous incarnations than someone else who also has some of that past incarnation in them as well though-such as you having more of your father in you than your children will, simply because of the complexity of branching that takes place within the genetic lineage..though this might not be true always because sometimes certain genes can just be more expressed in one person than in another for w/e reason..

Anyway it's weird.

Not as weird as you may think

God as the Necessary Existent
(My emphasis on final paragraph)

An ontological argument for the existence of God was first proposed by Avicenna (965-1037) in the Metaphysics section of The Book of Healing which is known as Contingency and necessity argument (Imakan wa Wujub).

Avicenna initiated a full-fledged inquiry into the question of being, in which he distinguished between essence (Mahiat) and existence (Wujud). He argued that the fact of existence can not be inferred from or accounted for by the essence of existing things and that form and matter by themselves cannot interact and originate the movement of the universe or the progressive actualization of existing things. Existence must, therefore, be due to an agent-cause that necessitates, imparts, gives, or adds existence to an essence. To do so, the cause must be an existing thing and coexist with its effect.

This was the first attempt at using the method of a priori proof, which utilizes intuition and reason alone. Avicenna's proof of God's existence is unique in that it can be classified as both a cosmological argument and an ontological argument. "It is ontological insofar as ‘necessary existence’ in intellect is the first basis for arguing for a Necessary Existent". The proof is also "cosmological insofar as most of it is taken up with arguing that contingent existents cannot stand alone and must end up in a Necessary Existent." Another argument Avicenna presented for God's existence was the problem of the mind-body dichotomy.

According to Avicenna, the universe consists of a chain of actual beings, each giving existence to the one below it and responsible for the existence of the rest of the chain below. Because an actual infinite is deemed impossible by Avicenna, this chain as a whole must terminate in a being that is wholly simple and one, whose essence is its very existence, and therefore is self-sufficient and not in need of something else to give it existence. Because its existence is not contingent on or necessitated by something else but is necessary and eternal in itself, it satisfies the condition of being the necessitating cause of the entire chain that constitutes the eternal world of contingent existing things. Thus his ontological system rests on the conception of God as the Wajib al-Wujud (necessary existent). There is a gradual multiplication of beings through a timeless emanation from God as a result of his self-knowledge.

 

[Guyomech]

I remember my dad (whom I consider a fairly smart dude) describing how he had essentially waded through the semantics of Avicenna's argument, and boiled it down to: "God is that which nothing can be greater than", which he felt was essentially a nonstatement.

One thing about Avicenna's proposal is that it operates under the assumption that God is eternal and therefore had no beginning. We who have taken large doses of psychedelics will often see that this is not the case- that eternity is not simply time going on forever, but rather a departure from linear time into an atemporal state. As such, sequence still exists, and in fact must exist in order for anything to happen. I've had numerous psychedelic visions (as I'm sure many of you have had- I think it's a common motif) where the history of the universe unfolds, starting with the very beginning of sequence, the original first thought, etc. all the way up to the massively complex reality that we know. So rather than being an always existent entity with no beginning point, therefore the original cause of all else, this thing we call God is just another aspect of the ever unfolding nature of reality.

In these visions I also understood that this original first thought was in effect MY original first thought, therefore I am the mind of the universe... Therefore the messianic complex. Definitely a very challenging thing to put into perspective.