• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Minimum Polymer

Migrated topic.
Here's a fun one. I did both of these extractions in tandem. There are only a few differences. The size of the burner the pots for the acid bath and basic bath, the size of the pots, and which one was pulled first.

If I'm not mistaken, the yellower one, was on the smaller burner, in the smaller pot, and was pulled first.

I'll do it again, but intentionally keep track in case this happens again.

20250101_082541.jpg
 
Thanks for everyone contributing to this amazing thread! With the basic understanding of the process explained here and elsewhere I'm planning to do some cleanups for what I have gathered from my extractions over the years. It's pretty hard to get MHRB to Finland because of customs, so I may as well try to recover what I have trapped in solution/goo. Please, do correct me if I'm attempting something rather stupid here. I do not have a proper pH measure but some aquarium store bought kit that can read a scale of 4-8,5pH.

Naphta cleaning
1. I want to attempt to clean/desaturate my used light naphta(Primus camping fuel) by taking ~200ml of it and adding ~50ml of citric acid solution of pH4 for backsalting the possible DMT trapped in the NP. (Any recommendations for particular acid here?)
2. I then separate the aqueous layer from the NP and put the aqueous solution to a warm water bath for several hours to break up the polymer bonding.
3. I add ~20ml unused, warmed NP to the solution.
4. Then I add ~33% NAOH solution little by little while mixing and decanting, keeping the container in the warm water bath of 50C'. After this, when the aqueous layer turns milky, I shake heavily. This should give off a noticeable emulsion of which I treat by adding more NAOH solution and shaking, adding, repeating, until the emulsion is gone.
(No need for salt as it's considered aggressive measure here, right?)
5. I do 3-4 warm, unused ~20ml NP pulls, combine and heat them to boiling temperature before freezing for 18hrs.
---
Goo crystallizing
6. I may end up with goo similar to of which I have also collected from earlier batches along the years. To get crystals from all of this I do a mini A/B.
7. I dissolve ~1g of goo/wax/oil to some ~50ml of citric acid/vinegar/HCl + water solution at pH4. (Will this be too concentrated?)
8. I put this into the pressure cooker at 15psi for a few hours. Let it cool and depressurize and then remove to a water bath to keep it at 50C'. (Is the PC overkill here?)
9. I then add ~20ml of unused NP that's also preheated to 50C' and shake vigorously.
10. Then I add ~33% NAOH solution little by little while mixing and decanting. After this, when the aqueous layer turns milky, I shake heavily. This should give off a noticeable emulsion of which I treat by adding more NAOH solution and shaking, till the emulsion is gone. No salt added.
11. After this I heat the solution at a warm water bath to 50C' and also add unused NP that's 50C'.
12. I do 3-4 pulls with unused ~20ml NP, combine them and heat them to boiling temperature before freezing for 18hrs.
---
Batch recovering
13. I also have a 2,5l batch that I believe has trapped over one gram of pure FB DMT. I did Max Ion tek to this but the results were something more like 0,5%. It's also possible that the MHRB was old and there really ain't nothing in it but I might as well give it a minimum polymer push and see what comes out.
14. And so I take the overly salted, high pH soup, filter the plant matter out and divide the remaining liquid in to two separate portions.
15. I lower the pH back to 4 and put the container to a warm water bath for several hours.
16. I then add ~50ml of unused, warmed naptha.
17. I then add NAOH little by little, until no emulsion is formed.
18. I do the pulls as usual, heat the combined pulls, freeze and scrape.
19. If nothing comes of from this, I clean my toilet pipes with the remaining base liquids.
---
Any comment and advice is highly appreciated <3
 
Last edited:
Valopallo said:
Thanks for everyone contributing to this amazing thread! With the basic understanding of the process explained here and elsewhere I'm planning to do some cleanups for what I have gathered from my extractions over the years. It's pretty hard to get MHRB to Finland because of customs, so I may as well try to recover what I have trapped in solution/goo. Please, do correct me if I'm attempting something rather stupid here. I do not have a proper pH measure but some aquarium store bought kit that can read a scale of 4-8,5pH.

Naphta cleaning
1. I want to attempt to clean/desaturate my used light naphta(Primus camping fuel) by taking ~200ml of it and adding ~50ml of citric acid solution of pH4 for backsalting the possible DMT trapped in the NP. (Any recommendations for particular acid here?)
2. I then separate the aqueous layer from the NP and put the aqueous solution to a warm water bath for several hours to break up the polymer bonding.
3. I add ~20ml unused, warmed NP to the solution.
4. Then I add ~33% NAOH solution little by little while mixing and decanting, keeping the container in the warm water bath of 50C'. After this, when the aqueous layer turns milky, I shake heavily. This should give off a noticeable emulsion of which I treat by adding more NAOH solution and shaking, adding, repeating, until the emulsion is gone.
(No need for salt as it's considered aggressive measure here, right?)
5. I do 3-4 warm, unused ~20ml NP pulls, combine and heat them to boiling temperature before freezing for 18hrs.
---
Goo crystallizing
6. I may end up with goo similar to of which I have also collected from earlier batches along the years. To get crystals from all of this I do a mini A/B.
7. I dissolve ~1g of goo/wax/oil to some ~50ml of citric acid/vinegar/HCl + water solution at pH4. (Will this be too concentrated?)
8. I put this into the pressure cooker at 15psi for a few hours. Let it cool and depressurize and then remove to a water bath to keep it at 50C'. (Is the PC overkill here?)
9. I then add ~20ml of unused NP that's also preheated to 50C' and shake vigorously.
10. Then I add ~33% NAOH solution little by little while mixing and decanting. After this, when the aqueous layer turns milky, I shake heavily. This should give off a noticeable emulsion of which I treat by adding more NAOH solution and shaking, till the emulsion is gone. No salt added.
11. After this I heat the solution at a warm water bath to 50C' and also add unused NP that's 50C'.
12. I do 3-4 pulls with unused ~20ml NP, combine them and heat them to boiling temperature before freezing for 18hrs.
---
Batch recovering
13. I also have a 2,5l batch that I believe has trapped over one gram of pure FB DMT. I did Max Ion tek to this but the results were something more like 0,5%. It's also possible that the MHRB was old and there really ain't nothing in it but I might as well give it a minimum polymer push and see what comes out.
14. And so I take the overly salted, high pH soup, filter the plant matter out and divide the remaining liquid in to two separate portions.
15. I lower the pH back to 4 and put the container to a warm water bath for several hours.
16. I then add ~50ml of unused, warmed naptha.
17. I then add NAOH little by little, until no emulsion is formed.
18. I do the pulls as usual, heat the combined pulls, freeze and scrape.
19. If nothing comes of from this, I clean my toilet pipes with the remaining base liquids.
---
Any comment and advice is highly appreciated <3
Click to expand...
I just want you to know that I see this. I am very busy, and want to reply but will have to wait, but just want you to know it's noticed.

@Transform You busy right now? :LOL:

One love
 
Voidmatrix said:
I just want you to know that I see this. I am very busy, and want to reply but will have to wait, but just want you to know it's noticed.

@Transform You busy right now? :LOL:

One love
Click to expand...
Yeah I saw this post and also looked at the clock. Sunny morning tomorrow and I've loads to do.

Main thing I'd say is 14. - fitering alkaline sludge would be a total pain and not to bother. Ditto with dropping the pH and raising it back up again. Just do some warm pulls and pull them straight back into acid for further purification (mini A/B). Failing that, try pulls with xylene, toluene or limonene to stand abetter chance of recovering something from that 'legacy' batch. Mini A/B applies for getting the goods out there too.

Other than that, the rest of the summary seems to fly. There's no real sense in PC'ing goo though (step 8). PC is intended to increase yield during acid cooks on bark.

Step 1 - save the acid washes and combine with one of the other mini A/B processes. Vinegar is probably as good an acid as most of the others.

Step 5 - boiling your naphtha/ Primus fuel only ought to be done most gently. If you're intending to reduce the volume of your naphtha, use air flow in preference to strong heat. Bear in mind that *slooooow* cooling produces bigger crystals, and these tend to be easier to recover should they form unattached to the precipitation dish.

Oversaturation can also contribute to goo formation, so don't evaporate down too much.

Hope this helps!
 
One more thing about evaporating naphtha - this preferentially leaves the heavier molecules behind, changing the solvent properties slightly. IME, longer-chain hydrocarbons are slightly better at dissolving DMT - compare the difference between solubility in hexane and heptane, for example.

I'm still not convinced you need bother acidifying the 'legacy' base soup. You may risk causing sodium salts to crystallise out after fresh addition of base, which could in turn lead to emulsion problems. Maybe just reduce the pH a little with a tiny amount of HCl instead.
 
Highly appreciated! Thank you. Should I pull from the 'legacy' batch so that both, the base soup and NP are both warm (50C') or should there be a chill base soup and warm NP?
EDIT: I misunderstood so I removed my earlier post a minute ago. Sorry bout this.
 
Valopallo said:
Highly appreciated! Thank you. Should I pull from the 'legacy' batch so that both, the base soup and NP are both warm (50C') or should there be a chill base soup and warm NP?
EDIT: I misunderstood so I removed my earlier post a minute ago. Sorry bout this.
Click to expand...
Warm soup - otherwise it will chill the warm naphtha on contact. Compare their heat capacity values to understand why. Water can absorb a lot more heat per degree of warming than most other liquids - hence its popularity as a heat transfer agent. Note that this will tend to lead to a more highly-coloured product, but you appear to be planning a mini A/B anyhow, so that gets taken care of.
 
I just noticed your question about reading pH strips with the deep purple solution. Add a drop of it to a small amount of distilled water, then dip the corner of a scrap of pH paper into that. This would still give you a fair indication of the pH range, if you can account for the dilution effects through reasonably accurate estimation of the dilution factor (e.g., 1 drop soup into 10 drops water would, very roughly, move the pH one step in the direction of neutral, 'more or less').
 
First batch was a success, but the snow globes are mostly floaties and hard to collect. I ended up using a coffee filter but it really does not help because most of the crystals are melting back to the solution while draining. I separated the NP to smaller dishes and put them back in to the freezer to figure out what to do next...? All of the procedures I planned on doing gave off milky, condensed pulls. By the visual inspection there's a lot of DMT to be gained from these leftouts and without this minimal polymer approach it would not have been possible. I'll post some pictures when I'm able to collect it all properly as crystals.
 
Back
Top Bottom