Mixing Harmala Containg Plants

[highwire]

If anyone has personal experience with this, please chime in. And if you have any corrections to what I detail below, let me know. I'd much rather be corrected than entertain a possibly dangerous misconception.

I'm interested in the possibility of mixing harmala alkaloid-containing plants like B. Caapi, Syrian rue, and Passiflora.

There doesn't seem to be much research about this.

The following thread contains a fair amount of reports indicating that the combination of Syrian Rue and B. Caapi felt safe:

Combining Rue with Caapi ? - Ayahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

There is also a fair amount of information stating that passionflower is a safe admixture to ayahuasca. Here's an example:

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My own experience indicates that passionflower can add an anxiolytic effect when consumed in mild doses (one tablespoon or so) the night before drinking ayahuasca in the late morning with a follow-up dose three hours later. It also seems to change the overall speed of the experience, slowing everything down. Taking a similar amount the night after was also a great knockout to help me get to sleep.

It seems that it should be safe to combine these plants in reasonable doses because they all contain harmalas which inhibit MAO-A. But, of course, there could be other contraindicating factors that I'm not aware of.

Finally, is there even a reason to mix it up? My main interest is in the safe addition of passionflower either before, during, or after ayahuasca. But looking into that got me curious about a mix of caapi and rue.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I can't really imagine any concern unless one is taking certain prescription medications. The harmala alkaloids are week MAOIs known as RIMAs. They don't have quite as much strength at inhibiting monoamine oxidase, which is known to break down tyramine. Tyramine buildup in the body can lead to hypertensive crisis.

Many of my changa blends, past and present, have extracted harmalas (typically from caapi) AND passionflower mixed in.

However, I am not sure if there need be other considerations since you're talking about working with Aya and not a vape or smoalk method. There could be considerations and contraindications that I could be missing. Hopefully a more knowledgeable individual can help provide further feedback for you.

One love

 

[highwire]

I can't really imagine any concern unless one is taking certain prescription medications. The harmala alkaloids are week MAOIs known as RIMAs. They don't have quite as much strength at inhibiting monoamine oxidase, which is known to break down tyramine. Tyramine buildup in the body can lead to hypertensive crisis.

Many of my changa blends, past and present, have extracted harmalas (typically from caapi) AND passionflower mixed in.

However, I am not sure if there need be other considerations since you're talking about working with Aya and not a vape or smoalk method. There could be considerations and contraindications that I could be missing. Hopefully a more knowledgeable individual can help provide further feedback for you.

One love

I didn't know about the RIMA distinction, or its influence on monoamine oxidase and tyramine. Thanks for that, and also for sharing your experience with a mixture of the two harmala extracts.

 

[Sabnock1990]

There shouldn't be any safety issues that i know of. I've mixed Caapi and Rue a few times myself, haven't noticed any issues. I've also smoked Passion Flower in Changa with extracted Harmalas and never had an issue. I would drink Passion Flower tea but the few times i've tried it tasted nasty, dunno if that's just Passion Flower or if it was just the batch of Passion Flower i had.

I feel like Passion Flower would be a great admixture plant, used for anxiety relief, to smooth out the come up, calm the intensity, similarly to what i use Lemon Balm for. So if you're going to try using Passion Flower, probably best to use it as an admixture plants, a few grams (so like 3 to 4 grams, maybe).

 

[monomind]

There should be no safety issues with this however on a non-physicalist level,
Rue and Cappi are 2 different 'teacher plants', used by different cultures and with distinctly different characters. BTW, they are also different in their chemical composition.
So it might be beneficial to explore each one on its own in your blend before mixing them.

 

[dithyramb]

Years ago I got in the habit of following rue + chaliponga or acacia with ayahuasca + chacruna (single session, two doses/servings). In the beginning I thought it was amazing, but later I felt that ayahuasca got "angry" and quit this practice.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Years ago I got in the habit of following rue + chaliponga or acacia with ayahuasca + chacruna (single session, two doses/servings). In the beginning I thought it was amazing, but later I felt that ayahuasca got "angry" and quit this practice.

Was this with raw rue seed? Or, if you roasted it at all could you say to what extent?