Moldy Syrian Rue Brew and Extraction

[Locoboy]

Hello to everyone. I boiled 500 grams of Syrian Rue and reduced the liquid to 500 ml so that ~1ml=1 gram Rue. This time i used Vitamin C while boiling with distilled water instead of Vinegar. All other things were the same except using Vitamin C in the hopes of having a better tasting (if i could ever call that with Rue) liquid and boiling for much longer (in the hopes of acquiring more Tetrahydroharmine)?

Well, this time Rue brew got moldy. I had split it into 2 different jars, both got a layer of mold on top. I have another jar next to them (1 month older) with vinegar and it did not get mold. I was not storing them in the fridge. In the past i had brews stored for month(s) outside the fridge and they did not get moldy too. The only difference in the last batches was using Vitamin C and lower ambient temperatures. I don't know if ambient temperatures play a role in that, now that fall is coming and temperatures are dropping in comparison to the summer. Anyways, lesson learned, storing only in the fridge from now on.

What i want to ask is, can i still use the Syrian Rue Brue after removing the top moldy layer? I know there are propably spores everywhere in the jars now but i am planning on using lye and vinegar to extract Harmaline Freebase and not drink the brew as originally intended. The last 2 A/B would be done with Sodium Bicarbonate. Would the spores still survive the addition of lye to the brew? After extracting the Harmaline i am planning on reducing it to THH with Zinc. Do you think it would be possible to do that without the final result (hopefully THH) being full of mold spores?

Thank you

 

[Elrik]

Once you go to the point of isolated alkaloids a few mold spores will be irrelevant, dry crystalline ß-carbolines wont mold. And no, spores shouldnt survive lye.
What would be relevant is aflatoxins and other mycotoxins. A liquid brew isnt like sauerkraut, you cant just scrape off the top and call it good
Your right that, in all likelihood, chemical extraction is mandatory now. Studies have shown that aflatoxins are destroyed by extremes in pH as well as extended boiling. Your plan to purify by a couple A/B cycles with lye should do the trick. I'd avoid the bicarbonate A/B as carbonates tend to just cause a mess with harmalas. Instead I'd follow two lye A/B's with a manske salt precip to remove the non ß-carboline alkaloids and further clean it.
Harmaline/harmine hydrochloride solution still wont taste good, but its better than rue tea.

If you do make THH, dont use carbonates there either.

 

[Locoboy]

Thank you very much for your helpful answer! About the boiling, i guess it would be no harm to boil intensively before proceeding with A/B using Lye. The only thing i would have to be careful in this case is not to reduce the liquid too much with boiling.

So, because i am almost a total beginner with those procedures, you suggest 2 A/B using Lye, then a Manske Salt precip. Another A/B and Proceed with turning the Harmaline that is previously extracted into THH? About the carbonates, i suppose you are referring to the form of Zinc used. Which would be the best form? Is Zinc Nitrate Hexahydrate good enough (i guess it is not, should be food grade)? Zinc Picolinate? I saw in one post of yours a mention about Zinc Sulfate.

Tell you what, i was into Syrian Rue tea daily for about 170 days consecutively in full MAO-Inhibition doses. I had gotten used to the taste to an extent. But after a bad Pharma trip i cannot even touch Harmalas, or feel MAO-i'ed in the least. I have read that THH does not have MAO-I properties in normal doses and i want to try it for its supposedly clean stimulant energy.

Thank you!!

 

[Elrik]

Your pretty much on target.
Heating is needed for best crystallization in the manske step anyway and since your ultimately aiming for reduction of the harmaline I would basically do it like this:
I'd add a little water, simmer for 10-12 minutes for good measure [15+ if not doing subsequent A/Bs], then while still scalding hot dissolve in 10-15 grams of salt per 100 ml of hot solution, let cool, refrigerate for 12+ hours, collect the crystals, reheat the decanted liquid and crystallize again [when salt preciping from tea this sometimes gets me a little extra product because microscopic crystals can be suspended in the plant guk that doesnt settle out], I'd personally then combine both crops of crystals and do a second manske on it for good measure [but without boiling] before dissolving the hydrochloride crystals in hot water, basing with lye while still hot [or with ammonia while still warm enough to not be crystallizing], confirm pH is at or above 11, let cool and refrigerate, decant and filter out solids. I'd then dissolve the solids in some dilute vinegar and do a second A/B.
Since you want THH in isolation instead of a harmine/THH mix I'd follow the VDS protocol to the letter for separation of harmine and harmaline and for the zinc and vinegar reduction spelled out in there.
For the zinc, its zinc metal powder/dust that must be used. Metallic zinc is a reducing agent, zinc salts are not. Its best to use ultra-pure grade zinc dust because it has far less cadmium and lead compared to the cheaper grades.

I like THH by itself. I wouldnt really class it as a stimulant, I think of it more as an antidepressant mood enhancer.
While its true that its been reported to be only very weakly MAO inhibiting, keep in mind thats for verified pharmaceutical grade THH. Home made THH may still contain harmine or harmaline so for safety never mix it with a drug that you cant mix with harmine.
Also, be very careful handling lye. It stinks, but janatorial grade ammonia with no soap mixed in is far less likely to hurt you in an accident, compared to lye, so if your not very experienced in the lab you may want to think about using ammonia as your base.
And finally, keep notes so you can review what you did later on. If your worried about security/evidence just keep the journal on your computer and have it encrypted.

 

[Locoboy]

You are the man, thank you very much for taking the time to write such a lengthy and detailed post . I will follow your directions as best as i can and will report back the results!