• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Most Clean/Natural DMT Tek Questions

Migrated topic.
WaterElf1919

WaterElf1919

Rising Star
Hi guys, I'm new to DMT-Extraction and am seeking the most natural/clean/nontoxic/foodsafe tek aviable which still ideally produces crystals so I can have a nice jar of DMT crystal freebase.


I've seen Vinegar, and D-Limonene Being mentioned, and I am 100% ready to use these chemicals as they are both safe for human consumption.

I don't want to use naptha, etc basically I only want to use foodsafe, edible ingredients.

Vinegar
D-Limonene.... What else?

Can someone please post a tek that matches my specifications? Thanks
 
There's a few options vinegar is fine for an acid cook, you could look at ascorbic acid or citric acid or a number of other natural acids.

D-limo is a good choice for a natural solvent.

As for a base material you can look into food grade caustic soda or food grade calcium hydroxide.

Q21Q21's Vinegar/Lime A/B Extraction Tek is probably what you want to look into.

Q21Q21's Vinegar/Lime A/B Extraction Tek - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me wiki.dmt-nexus.me
 
While the Q21Q21 guide look alright, I really want pure white DMT crystals.

I'd rather not smoke DMT-acetate (jimjam dmt) as its harsh to smoke.

I want pure white DMT crystals.. "White N-N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is pure DMT."

Any ideas?

I can get Vinegar, D-Limonene, and Hydrated Lime, etc.
 
Out of curiosity, is it the possession and handling of the toxic stuff you want to avoid or the chance of residues in your end product? Because it's relatively simple to avoid contamination especially with a re-x to finish.
 
fink said:
Out of curiosity, is it the possession and handling of the toxic stuff you want to avoid or the chance of residues in your end product? Because it's relatively simple to avoid contamination especially with a re-x to finish.
Click to expand...


Both preferably,

I'm thinknig that naptha for example, may crystalize with the DMT, leading to DMT And Naptha combined crystals.

I'd rather not introduce toxins into the DMT product at all.

I'd prefer to stick to using Vinegar, D-limonene, and Hydrated Lime, and still result in 100% White DMT Crystals, can it be done?
 
It's a tradeoff, if you want the ultra-pure shiny white crystals you'll need to accept the use of hydrocarbon solvents. If you want 100% food safe materials, you'll need to accept a less aesthetically pleasing result.

You can use USP grade materials if you are concerned about impurities in industrial grade. You can also acquire food grade sodium hydroxide. Just because calcium hydroxide is used in food processing, doesn't mean you'd want to eat a spoonful of it.

Limonine works great but you have to salt the alkaloids out and then deal with the conversion process using acetone or ethanol. Anhydrous acetone will generally give decent crystals, but nothing quite as nice as naphtha. Ethanol will always carry some of the base over due to water content and requires quite a bit of effort to get something of reasonably smokable purity.

I managed to get a smokable crystalline material using lime, ethanol, citric acid, and water in a very long multi-day process that was downright tedious. Still nowhere near as nice as naphtha crystals, but with dedication it can be done. I wouldn't recommend it though.

If you choose to go with the old q21 tek here are a few tips:

- Ditch the vinegar, use a pure crystalline acid like citric, ascorbic, fumaric, etc in some clean water (I prefer distilled, but it's not necessary, tap is fine). You don't need to add a lot of acid to the water, a small spoonful to achieve ph 5-6 is fine for our purposes. If you must use vinegar just put a capful or two into some water don't use it straight.

- You don't need to wait 24 hours between pulls, just mix layers thoroughly for a few minutes and let stand till they separate, repeat this 2-3 times for each pull.

- Don't do the boiling down the vinegar step. The heat conversion works poorly, if at all, boiling vinegar is a terribly stinky and caustic process, and smoking the partially converted acetates is really hard on your lungs. Mix the salts with lime and water, make a paste and let it dry, then pull with acetone or ethanol to get properly freebased material.
 
dreamer042 said:
It's a tradeoff, if you want the ultra-pure shiny white crystals you'll need to accept the use of hydrocarbon solvents. If you want 100% food safe materials, you'll need to accept a less aesthetically pleasing result.

You can use USP grade materials if you are concerned about impurities in industrial grade. You can also acquire food grade sodium hydroxide. Just because calcium hydroxide is used in food processing, doesn't mean you'd want to eat a spoonful of it.

Limonine works great but you have to salt the alkaloids out and then deal with the conversion process using acetone or ethanol. Anhydrous acetone will generally give decent crystals, but nothing quite as nice as naphtha. Ethanol will always carry some of the base over due to water content and requires quite a bit of effort to get something of reasonably smokable purity.

I managed to get a smokable crystalline material using lime, ethanol, citric acid, and water in a very long multi-day process that was downright tedious. Still nowhere near as nice as naphtha crystals, but with dedication it can be done. I wouldn't recommend it though.

If you choose to go with the old q21 tek here are a few tips:

- Ditch the vinegar, use a pure crystalline acid like citric, ascorbic, fumaric, etc in some clean water (I prefer distilled, but it's not necessary, tap is fine). You don't need to add a lot of acid to the water, a small spoonful to achieve ph 5-6 is fine for our purposes. If you must use vinegar just put a capful or two into some water don't use it straight.

- You don't need to wait 24 hours between pulls, just mix layers thoroughly for a few minutes and let stand till they separate, repeat this 2-3 times for each pull.

- Don't do the boiling down the vinegar step. The heat conversion works poorly, if at all, boiling vinegar is a terribly stinky and caustic process, and smoking the partially converted acetates is really hard on your lungs. Mix the salts with lime and water, make a paste and let it dry, then pull with acetone or ethanol to get properly freebased material.
Click to expand...

THanks for the detailed reply, how can I ensure that solvents/impurities arn't crystalized along with the DMT-white crystals? Thanks

Also I'm fine with keeping it to foodsafe materials, but is there anyway to get Pure white DMT, instead of jimjam DMT, etc?
 
There will always be teeny tiny traces of whatever solvent you crystallize the material from present within the crystal matrix. This applies even to supplements and medications extracted/synthesized in professional laboratories and really is not a problem. You breathe far more carcinogens stepping outside and breathing the car exhaust in the morning, or filling up at the gas pump, so there is no reason to have an irrational fear of "toxins" in your product. Just follow any of the teks on the wiki properly and you will get a product that is safe for consumption.
 
dreamer042 said:
It's a tradeoff, if you want the ultra-pure shiny white crystals you'll need to accept the use of hydrocarbon solvents. If you want 100% food safe materials, you'll need to accept a less aesthetically pleasing result.

You can use USP grade materials if you are concerned about impurities in industrial grade. You can also acquire food grade sodium hydroxide. Just because calcium hydroxide is used in food processing, doesn't mean you'd want to eat a spoonful of it.

Limonine works great but you have to salt the alkaloids out and then deal with the conversion process using acetone or ethanol. Anhydrous acetone will generally give decent crystals, but nothing quite as nice as naphtha. Ethanol will always carry some of the base over due to water content and requires quite a bit of effort to get something of reasonably smokable purity.

I managed to get a smokable crystalline material using lime, ethanol, citric acid, and water in a very long multi-day process that was downright tedious. Still nowhere near as nice as naphtha crystals, but with dedication it can be done. I wouldn't recommend it though.

If you choose to go with the old q21 tek here are a few tips:

- Ditch the vinegar, use a pure crystalline acid like citric, ascorbic, fumaric, etc in some clean water (I prefer distilled, but it's not necessary, tap is fine). You don't need to add a lot of acid to the water, a small spoonful to achieve ph 5-6 is fine for our purposes. If you must use vinegar just put a capful or two into some water don't use it straight.

- You don't need to wait 24 hours between pulls, just mix layers thoroughly for a few minutes and let stand till they separate, repeat this 2-3 times for each pull.

- Don't do the boiling down the vinegar step. The heat conversion works poorly, if at all, boiling vinegar is a terribly stinky and caustic process, and smoking the partially converted acetates is really hard on your lungs. Mix the salts with lime and water, make a paste and let it dry, then pull with acetone or ethanol to get properly freebased material.
Click to expand...

You mentioned ditching the vinegar for citric acid. What is the logic behind that? Would it also be preferable when extracting rue alkaloids?
 
Vinegar leaves a gunky residue when evapped. This isn't really a problem when in solution, but if you are trying to isolate a salt it makes things just that much more difficult.

With rue it stays in solution and my understanding is the acetic acid is imperative to Manske working correctly, I could be wrong on that though. I just know that Manske used acetic acid in the original paper.
 
I'm still unsure which tek would be best.

I really am thinking that solvents I use wont be able to fully evaporate out of the crystals of DMT.

I'm also not excited about Red JimJam DMT... I dont want the other MHRB alkaloids, I just want pure DMT..
 
WaterElf1919 said:
I'm still unsure which tek would be best.

I really am thinking that solvents I use wont be able to fully evaporate out of the crystals of DMT.

I'm also not excited about Red JimJam DMT... I dont want the other MHRB alkaloids, I just want pure DMT..
Click to expand...
If you want pure white DMT crystals, whatever method you end up using for the initial extraction can be followed up with a recrystallisation from heptane via freeze precipitation. The heptane - assuming it to be of high purity - will not leave any dangerous residue in the crystals. Remnants will evaporate from the surface of the crystals without trace, notwithstanding the vanishingly small amounts of impurities left over from the initially extracted material. If that appears to be a problem, recrystallise again with fresh heptane.
 
Has anyone tried something like this?

www.frontiersin.org

Industrial Use of Cell Wall Degrading Enzymes: The Fine Line Between Production Strategy and Economic Feasibility

Cell Wall Degrading Enzymes (CWDEs) are a heterogeneous group of enzymes including glycosyl-hydrolases, oxidoreductases, lyases, and esterases. Microbes with degrading activities toward plant cell wall polysaccharides are the most relevant source of CWDEs for industrial applications. These...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org

Basically, using enzymes to break down cell walls?? It could replace lye, ideally?

Just a thought?

Heres another idea?

Put water on the powder... leave in a dark area to go totally moldy (lol)... then try to extract the DMT using naptha.

Perhaps the mold would degrade the cell walls?
 
I had perfectly acceptable results from naptha. It was xylene and toulene that I ended up avoiding as I always felt like my results were somewhat sullied by them.
 
nitrogenaztec said:
Has anyone tried something like this?

www.frontiersin.org

Industrial Use of Cell Wall Degrading Enzymes: The Fine Line Between Production Strategy and Economic Feasibility

Cell Wall Degrading Enzymes (CWDEs) are a heterogeneous group of enzymes including glycosyl-hydrolases, oxidoreductases, lyases, and esterases. Microbes with degrading activities toward plant cell wall polysaccharides are the most relevant source of CWDEs for industrial applications. These...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org

Basically, using enzymes to break down cell walls?? It could replace lye, ideally?

Just a thought?

Heres another idea?

Put water on the powder... leave in a dark area to go totally moldy (lol)... then try to extract the DMT using naptha.

Perhaps the mold would degrade the cell walls?
Click to expand...
The clean way to do this would be to purchase fungal cellulase, and hope that the tannins in MHRB don't inactivate the enzyme. To get the tannins out of the way you could try extracting the bark with 40% ethanol at 60°C for three hours, which works for some other kinds of plant material - but at least some of the DMT might then end up in the ethanol. And of course, some cultures regard ethanol as intrinsically impure too.

Trichoderma viride is a robust, common mould that produces cellulase, such that attempts to filter a mouldy rue solution have resulted in the coffee filter dissolving within about 20 minutes. It can get a bit tricky if you're trying to tame wild moulds, you don't want to end up with too much gliotoxin in your brew either.

After using cellulase you'd still need to add some kind of sufficiently strong base in order to be able to extract the DMT into the naphtha. The base converts the DMT to its free base form, as well as breaking down the cell walls in the plant material.

Incidentally, some level of cell wall breakdown can be achieved through a couple of freeze-thaw cycles on moistened plant material.

[EDIT: This has set me thinking though; if DMT is sufficiently soluble in its natural salt form directly into 40% ethanol ("80 proof" vodka to you transatlantic heathens :p), it may be possible simply to add calcium hydroxide to precipitate the tannins as calcium tannate and be left with a crude solution of DMT freebase in the remaining alcohol. This is most definitely worth trying on the test tube level - and I feel confident enough to say that you might as well use a fairly large test tube.]
 
downwardsfromzero said:
nitrogenaztec said:
Has anyone tried something like this?

www.frontiersin.org

Industrial Use of Cell Wall Degrading Enzymes: The Fine Line Between Production Strategy and Economic Feasibility

Cell Wall Degrading Enzymes (CWDEs) are a heterogeneous group of enzymes including glycosyl-hydrolases, oxidoreductases, lyases, and esterases. Microbes with degrading activities toward plant cell wall polysaccharides are the most relevant source of CWDEs for industrial applications. These...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org

Basically, using enzymes to break down cell walls?? It could replace lye, ideally?

Just a thought?

Heres another idea?

Put water on the powder... leave in a dark area to go totally moldy (lol)... then try to extract the DMT using naptha.

Perhaps the mold would degrade the cell walls?
Click to expand...
The clean way to do this would be to purchase fungal cellulase, and hope that the tannins in MHRB don't inactivate the enzyme. To get the tannins out of the way you could try extracting the bark with 40% ethanol at 60°C for three hours, which works for some other kinds of plant material - but at least some of the DMT might then end up in the ethanol. And of course, some cultures regard ethanol as intrinsically impure too.

Trichoderma viride is a robust, common mould that produces cellulase, such that attempts to filter a mouldy rue solution have resulted in the coffee filter dissolving within about 20 minutes. It can get a bit tricky if you're trying to tame wild moulds, you don't want to end up with too much gliotoxin in your brew either.

After using cellulase you'd still need to add some kind of sufficiently strong base in order to be able to extract the DMT into the naphtha. The base converts the DMT to its free base form, as well as breaking down the cell walls in the plant material.

Incidentally, some level of cell wall breakdown can be achieved through a couple of freeze-thaw cycles on moistened plant material.

[EDIT: This has set me thinking though; if DMT is sufficiently soluble in its natural salt form directly into 40% ethanol ("80 proof" vodka to you transatlantic heathens :p), it may be possible simply to add calcium hydroxide to precipitate the tannins as calcium tannate and be left with a crude solution of DMT freebase in the remaining alcohol. This is most definitely worth trying on the test tube level - and I feel confident enough to say that you might as well use a fairly large test tube.]
Click to expand...

Amazingly indepth reply :) I don't know chemistry well enough to understand everything (or maybe i can understand while reading but wont remember what you are saying? its easier to remember something when you already know the field... more "stuff" for the facts to stick to).

Anyhow its just an idea. Thanks very much for the intelligent reply. It would be cool to see someone try this!
 
Homo Trypens said:
Hmmm. This ethanol/limestone approach sounds like a fun thing to try!

I think i'll do this with 25g of bark. Maybe next weekend :=)
Click to expand...
Awesome! Be sure to let us know how it goes in a thread of its very own.
 
Back
Top Bottom