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Most potent mescaline containing cacti?
- Thread starter 69ron
- Start date
freethinker
Rising Star
[quote='Coatl]Trichocereus bridgesii var. "monstrose" is said to be the most powerful Trichocereus.[/quote]
I was under the impression that monstrose forms of any plant merely described a physical peculiarity or mutation prized by collectors for their rarity. Have monstrose bridgesii actually shown to consistently contain higher levels of actives? I've not heard this.
69ron, perhaps you're just hard headed for cactus? Your doses seem outrageously huge. I can't imagine you could just be so unlucky with obtaining only bunk plants.
I was under the impression that monstrose forms of any plant merely described a physical peculiarity or mutation prized by collectors for their rarity. Have monstrose bridgesii actually shown to consistently contain higher levels of actives? I've not heard this.
69ron, perhaps you're just hard headed for cactus? Your doses seem outrageously huge. I can't imagine you could just be so unlucky with obtaining only bunk plants.
69ron
Rising Star
It’s hard to say.
Next time SWIM will purchase some strains recommended by Coatl and try his method of ingestion. He will report his results with those. Hopefully they are worth while and he has just been getting crappy cacti. We’ll see how it goes.
Next time SWIM will purchase some strains recommended by Coatl and try his method of ingestion. He will report his results with those. Hopefully they are worth while and he has just been getting crappy cacti. We’ll see how it goes.
69ron
Rising Star
SWIM HAS AND HE'S NEVER BEEN HAPPIER.
SWIM finally has some good quality cactus with close to 1% mescaline content.
With his new potent material, SWIM has had enough to play around with and developed a completely new 100% all natural non-toxic mescaline extraction tech that uses edible lime (calcium hydroxide), a little water, edible d-limonene (a food grade non-toxic solvent extracted from lemon oil), and edible vinegar. His new tech produces nearly pure mescaline acetate in just a few steps. The purity is roughly 90% pure. SWIM is VERY HAPPY.
SWIM finally has some good quality cactus with close to 1% mescaline content.
With his new potent material, SWIM has had enough to play around with and developed a completely new 100% all natural non-toxic mescaline extraction tech that uses edible lime (calcium hydroxide), a little water, edible d-limonene (a food grade non-toxic solvent extracted from lemon oil), and edible vinegar. His new tech produces nearly pure mescaline acetate in just a few steps. The purity is roughly 90% pure. SWIM is VERY HAPPY.
ThirdEyeVision
Rising Star
Which strain did you end up liking the best?69ron said:
Hi all. It's great to know that there are other cactus entusiasts such as myself. I'm in the UK and am growing a number of different trichocereus and lophophoras. I'm curious to hear if anyone has any idea of the general potency of Trichcereus peruvianus cacti from the Rimac valley near Matucana at 2000m above sea level. I have a couple of these growing and they're very blue with a phenomenal growth rate and quite vicious spines. Also, is there any marked difference on potency between the northern Lophophoras around Saltillo and the southern around Eintroque, Huizache? I also have some young monstrose bridgesii but they are rather slow growing. Are they worth grafting?
Attachments
ThirdEyeVision
Rising Star
69ron said:
Did you go for one of the SS cones?
blue_velvet
Rising Star
Having never tried any cacti, I'd like to know as well. There seems to be much speculation on this subject, what with low potency and all. 69ron, perhaps you could elucidate specifically what worked for you. You said Torch, but is there a specific kind, and from what vendor? I just want to make sure I'm heading in a good direction.
Peyote's are much more potent than torches. And they're of more constant quality. They also have less stuff in them that numbs the experience.
pau
Rising Star
There are many potent trichs around that are "seriously high percentage". Example: 9 cu in of a bridgesii, or 25 cu in of a pach (sorry if this is confusing to you metric people). Pop in a dehydrator, and they'll powderize into a tablespoon or three. Sounds comparable or better to 20 lophophora buttons, and trichs are pretty bio-sustainable. Even more "normal" trichs (requiring 6-12" length) can have a superb spectrum of molecules in them that can rival peyote.
I read this thread and found it seriously wanting in a lot of ways
for example in post 46 there is a chart showing known percentages of recovered alkaloid from single studies
the chart lists bridgesii as 25+ mg per 100g fresh
the same chart lists pachanoi as 25-120mg per 100 grams fresh
then 69ron says that this shows bridgesii to be weaker than pachanoi
however the + sign shows merely that bridgesii has more than 25mg per 100 grams fresh
it should not be taken as an indication that bridgesii is weaker or that pachanoi is stronger
as for the MAOI myth, there is no evidence supporting it but it is known that mescaline itself has some weak maoi properties, however there is no evidence to suggest that in and of itself MAOI activity potentiates psychedelics, there is actually evidence to the contrary, harmala alkaloids do not potentiate due to MAOI activity, they are known to affect 5HTP receptors and GABA receptors and several are known SSRIs. There are several MAO-inhibiting drugs that do not potentiate psychedelics or orally activate DMT.
as for the science it is well documented that T pachanoi, T bridgesii and T peruvianus forms exist, which are all more potent that the peyote commonly available through the NAC
the average for the San Pedro cacti is in the range of 1-2% dried for all of the species I mention, the only common exception to this is the weak plant that is being sold as pachanoi, which is known as pachanot, this plant when grown well ranges from 0.3-0.6% dried (mescaline)
however recoveries as high as 3% are documented from San Pedro forms (San Pedro is the name used for all of these species in the regions they hail from and does not indicate any one form or specie)
every single species i mention is also known to contain 3,4-DMPEA, a molecule that is known to occur in them from 1-10%. This molecule is extracted by conventional AB extractions and does co-crystallize with mescaline, it is very difficult to remove from extractions and conventional clandestine extractions do not remove it.
A recent study of peyote found 12-50mg per g of mesc with a large range of result, the average being about 30mg per g (dried), this is 30g per kg, a recovery of about 3%, however given the range reported in the study peyote can range from about 1% to nearly 5%, considering that many forms of San Pedro cacti are known to be in the range of 1-2% dry this is interesting
then consider that because most NAC peyote is stressed it rarely exceeds 1% dry and the study showing an average of 3% was of very well cared for plants in Japan, then you start to realize two major things, the first is that stressing a plant does not result in a more potent plant, frequently people recover 0.0% alkaloid from stressed pachanoi forms that give recoveries of 0.3-0.6%, secondly the average mescaline content of decent San Pedro cacti is above the average mescaline content of the most commonly available peyote. Considering that San Pedro cacti can grow nearly a meter in a year and that growth can easily exceed 10kg (fresh) peyote is a vastly inferior source of mescaline for extractions.
The amount of material required of good San Pedro cactus is about the size of a medium sized apple, this is true for peruvianus, bridgesii and pachanoi. Anything requiring more than about twice that amount (>kg fresh) is weak.
In years of experimentation SWIM (seriously?-LMFAO) has found no subjective difference between bridgesii, pachanoi or decent peruvianus all grown well, with the exception that bridgesii can have aftereffects of muscle weakness similar to those reported for Psilocybe cyanescens. These effects begin early in the experience and last well over a week, however extended boiling or extraction prevent these effects and they are strongest with raw cactus.
SWIM has never had any cactus or extract take longer than 45 minutes to come on, and the average is 15-20 minutes.
Of course the mind can make you trip... why else would people think that Coleus is active!
however people seldom take their clothes off and run screaming down the street from placebo...
if you want potent plants, obtain a bridgesii strain with a name or number or letter and grow it well, do not stress it whatsoever, you will find that 1-2% dried cactus material is actually pretty common these days, just not from online retailers.
for example in post 46 there is a chart showing known percentages of recovered alkaloid from single studies
the chart lists bridgesii as 25+ mg per 100g fresh
the same chart lists pachanoi as 25-120mg per 100 grams fresh
then 69ron says that this shows bridgesii to be weaker than pachanoi
however the + sign shows merely that bridgesii has more than 25mg per 100 grams fresh
it should not be taken as an indication that bridgesii is weaker or that pachanoi is stronger
as for the MAOI myth, there is no evidence supporting it but it is known that mescaline itself has some weak maoi properties, however there is no evidence to suggest that in and of itself MAOI activity potentiates psychedelics, there is actually evidence to the contrary, harmala alkaloids do not potentiate due to MAOI activity, they are known to affect 5HTP receptors and GABA receptors and several are known SSRIs. There are several MAO-inhibiting drugs that do not potentiate psychedelics or orally activate DMT.
as for the science it is well documented that T pachanoi, T bridgesii and T peruvianus forms exist, which are all more potent that the peyote commonly available through the NAC
the average for the San Pedro cacti is in the range of 1-2% dried for all of the species I mention, the only common exception to this is the weak plant that is being sold as pachanoi, which is known as pachanot, this plant when grown well ranges from 0.3-0.6% dried (mescaline)
however recoveries as high as 3% are documented from San Pedro forms (San Pedro is the name used for all of these species in the regions they hail from and does not indicate any one form or specie)
every single species i mention is also known to contain 3,4-DMPEA, a molecule that is known to occur in them from 1-10%. This molecule is extracted by conventional AB extractions and does co-crystallize with mescaline, it is very difficult to remove from extractions and conventional clandestine extractions do not remove it.
A recent study of peyote found 12-50mg per g of mesc with a large range of result, the average being about 30mg per g (dried), this is 30g per kg, a recovery of about 3%, however given the range reported in the study peyote can range from about 1% to nearly 5%, considering that many forms of San Pedro cacti are known to be in the range of 1-2% dry this is interesting
then consider that because most NAC peyote is stressed it rarely exceeds 1% dry and the study showing an average of 3% was of very well cared for plants in Japan, then you start to realize two major things, the first is that stressing a plant does not result in a more potent plant, frequently people recover 0.0% alkaloid from stressed pachanoi forms that give recoveries of 0.3-0.6%, secondly the average mescaline content of decent San Pedro cacti is above the average mescaline content of the most commonly available peyote. Considering that San Pedro cacti can grow nearly a meter in a year and that growth can easily exceed 10kg (fresh) peyote is a vastly inferior source of mescaline for extractions.
The amount of material required of good San Pedro cactus is about the size of a medium sized apple, this is true for peruvianus, bridgesii and pachanoi. Anything requiring more than about twice that amount (>kg fresh) is weak.
In years of experimentation SWIM (seriously?-LMFAO) has found no subjective difference between bridgesii, pachanoi or decent peruvianus all grown well, with the exception that bridgesii can have aftereffects of muscle weakness similar to those reported for Psilocybe cyanescens. These effects begin early in the experience and last well over a week, however extended boiling or extraction prevent these effects and they are strongest with raw cactus.
SWIM has never had any cactus or extract take longer than 45 minutes to come on, and the average is 15-20 minutes.
Of course the mind can make you trip... why else would people think that Coleus is active!
however people seldom take their clothes off and run screaming down the street from placebo...
if you want potent plants, obtain a bridgesii strain with a name or number or letter and grow it well, do not stress it whatsoever, you will find that 1-2% dried cactus material is actually pretty common these days, just not from online retailers.
-- got any pics to share with the Nexians?!!)
gazal
Rising Star
Great post AlbertKLloyd !
I should like to learn more on "...MAOI activity potentiates psychedelics, there is actually evidence to the contrary".
There is another issue that worry me: with San Pedros, even in high doses, i never experimented the mescaline features - i mean psychedelic, OEV, CEV - of modest quantity of peyote.
I had intense effects from SP but the visuals lacked of structured aestetic, the magic and revelation: they look like more as perceptual distortions.
I tried always with plants growth by me.
I should like to learn more on "...MAOI activity potentiates psychedelics, there is actually evidence to the contrary".
There is another issue that worry me: with San Pedros, even in high doses, i never experimented the mescaline features - i mean psychedelic, OEV, CEV - of modest quantity of peyote.
I had intense effects from SP but the visuals lacked of structured aestetic, the magic and revelation: they look like more as perceptual distortions.
I tried always with plants growth by me.
Yes, there definately is something in torches and sanpedro's that dulls the experience a bit. Peyote does give a greater, cleaner quality experience indeed.gazal said:
you're welcomegazal said:
