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Mushrooms / Psilocin and Psilocybin Workthread
- Thread starter endlessness
- Start date
The Day Tripper
Rennasauce Man
If only you could base psilocybin, get it into that acetone, and fasa the psilocybin out. Obviously that would give you psilocin only.
Any way to go from psilocin -> psilocybin (phosphorylation) relatively easily? Could be as simple as a properly done acid or base catalyzed dephosphorylation into psilocin base (basifying later if you did an acid catalyzed dephosphorylation), acetone extraction of the base from the dried lime & crude wax/resin extract, then fasa to psilocin fumarate.
Then if your after pure psilocybin, find a way to phosphorylate it, if that's possible outside of trained chemistry procedures.
Orion, or anyone with the mycellium to work with them, i'd be interested in the results of a 69ron dry limetek, or possibly dry sodium carbonate tek, dry it fully and pull with acetone. Add fasa, and see what precipitates.
It won't give you psilocybin, but if it works like it did for me with basing 4-aco-dmt fumarate in the same manner, you should end up with psilocin fumarate precipitates. Very, very, active precipitates :shock:.
But dry it fast with mgso4 or naso4, or both. I only based my aco goo for ~30m, and had it bone dry without heat at the 1hr mark. 1hr later, the acetone pulling/fasa'ing was done. and precipitates were present. The faster you do this, the less you lose to degradation. Psilocin base is very fragile, psilocin in general is fragile, psilocin base in hydrated basified conditions is very, very fragile. You'll know what i mean when you see the bluing after hydration and basification.
Any way to go from psilocin -> psilocybin (phosphorylation) relatively easily? Could be as simple as a properly done acid or base catalyzed dephosphorylation into psilocin base (basifying later if you did an acid catalyzed dephosphorylation), acetone extraction of the base from the dried lime & crude wax/resin extract, then fasa to psilocin fumarate.
Then if your after pure psilocybin, find a way to phosphorylate it, if that's possible outside of trained chemistry procedures.
Orion, or anyone with the mycellium to work with them, i'd be interested in the results of a 69ron dry limetek, or possibly dry sodium carbonate tek, dry it fully and pull with acetone. Add fasa, and see what precipitates.
It won't give you psilocybin, but if it works like it did for me with basing 4-aco-dmt fumarate in the same manner, you should end up with psilocin fumarate precipitates. Very, very, active precipitates :shock:.
But dry it fast with mgso4 or naso4, or both. I only based my aco goo for ~30m, and had it bone dry without heat at the 1hr mark. 1hr later, the acetone pulling/fasa'ing was done. and precipitates were present. The faster you do this, the less you lose to degradation. Psilocin base is very fragile, psilocin in general is fragile, psilocin base in hydrated basified conditions is very, very fragile. You'll know what i mean when you see the bluing after hydration and basification.
Parshvik Chintan
Esteemed member
is this for smoking or eating?
DeMenTed said:
An unknown percentage of psilocybin, degraded psilocin and other inactive impurities. Perfectly edible.
The Day Tripper said:
With chloroform it's not too hard to obtain psilocin ( Mushrooms / Psilocin and Psilocybin Workthread - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus ) and I think a FASA from xylene might work, but yields are low as it degrades fast in solution, and then converting the tiny amount yielded via phosphorylation into psilocybin would require something quite advanced for the kitchen chemist. It would actually be easier to convert psilocin into 4-aco-DMT (and I'll say again, if we can talk about making DMT acetate then this shouldn't be too sketchy...). Unfortunately the chemicals needed are difficult to obtain and besides the yields are so low it seems to be a waste of effort vs just having some 4 aco in the first place.
Parshvik Chintan said:
Eating, but you could try either :thumb_up:
senior member thingy
Parshvik Chintan
Esteemed member
purity is overrated.Orion said:
as far as i am concerned it is infinitely better than smoking a mushroom :d
thanks for this diligent research Orion..
..i still want to know what on earth it becomes if the pH is taken up above 5...
??
..i still want to know what on earth it becomes if the pH is taken up above 5...
??
Great thread, and a topic with a lot of room for research.
2 similar threads at shroomery that didn't go very far:
www.shroomery.org
It would be great to have a community effort to test more solvents and well as salts of psilocybin/psilocyn (as different salts should have different solubility).
Also, looking for the spectroscopy data for Baeocystin.
Also, wondering about the use of spectroscopy to determine relative concentrations of psilocybin/psilocyn/baeocystin to eachother and between batches/strains/species...
2 similar threads at shroomery that didn't go very far:
Psilocybin Extraction Project - The Psychedelic Experience - Shroomery Message Board
Ok, there have been quite a few posts recently regarding the extraction of psilocybin. While it can be done current methods require solvents or glassware most of us cant get. I am setting up this
www.shroomery.org
It would be great to have a community effort to test more solvents and well as salts of psilocybin/psilocyn (as different salts should have different solubility).
Also, looking for the spectroscopy data for Baeocystin.
Also, wondering about the use of spectroscopy to determine relative concentrations of psilocybin/psilocyn/baeocystin to eachother and between batches/strains/species...
locojuiceman
Rising Star
Excuse me but I have an aside to ask if thats okay? Would it be possible to use spent RUE seeds for the Compost instead of Birdseed or Rye or whatever else...
After the Rue was spent, and I put it aside to dry [[ Used for Antibacterial/Microbial, internally ]], within a couple days it almost turned to black dust, which is what shrooms LOVE, no?
After the Rue was spent, and I put it aside to dry [[ Used for Antibacterial/Microbial, internally ]], within a couple days it almost turned to black dust, which is what shrooms LOVE, no?
locojuiceman said:
A lot of stuff will colonize well with various molds after being pasteurised, rue and tea are two good examples. A jar of spent rue left in a cupboard will explode with mold. Whether these substrates are easy enough to metabolize for psychoactive mushroom strains isn't confirmed or denied so far as I can see.
You could try to substitute it in a PF tek, but make sure you pressure cook it well. Substitute half the verm for rue, or just do it the same as grain jars.
Still, other reliable substrates are so cheap, would it make much difference ? Unless for some reason it gave exceptional fruits...
blue.magic
Esteemed member
Given the excellent solubility data here and extraction techniques given in the literature, I was thinking about this extraction path (applies to fully dried, ground fruits):
Simple extraction
1. soak in warm methanol (30 ml per gram) for 12 hours
2. filter, evaporate the liquid
Improved extraction follow-up
3. dissolve in warm/hot ethanol, filter, keep liquid
4. de-fat with nonpolar solvent (e.g. naphtha), separate layers, keep ethanol
5. adjust pH to 4.0 with HCl, mix well, filter, keep liquid
6. refrigerate/freeze to precipiptate psilocybin hydrochloride
7. filter, dry solids
Recrystallization of psilocybin.HCl
8. wash with anhydrous acetone, filter, dry solids
9. dissolve in hot ethanol, decant/filter, keep liquid
10. refrigerate/freeze to precipiptate psilocybin hydrochloride
11. filter, dry solids
The goal is to obtain reasonably pure psilocybin in powder form, not a crystal but also not a goo.
I will try this once I get some acetone and ethanol.
Simple extraction
1. soak in warm methanol (30 ml per gram) for 12 hours
2. filter, evaporate the liquid
Improved extraction follow-up
3. dissolve in warm/hot ethanol, filter, keep liquid
4. de-fat with nonpolar solvent (e.g. naphtha), separate layers, keep ethanol
5. adjust pH to 4.0 with HCl, mix well, filter, keep liquid
6. refrigerate/freeze to precipiptate psilocybin hydrochloride
7. filter, dry solids
Recrystallization of psilocybin.HCl
8. wash with anhydrous acetone, filter, dry solids
9. dissolve in hot ethanol, decant/filter, keep liquid
10. refrigerate/freeze to precipiptate psilocybin hydrochloride
11. filter, dry solids
The goal is to obtain reasonably pure psilocybin in powder form, not a crystal but also not a goo.
I will try this once I get some acetone and ethanol.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Have you checked the solubility of psilocybin HCl? Will it freeze-precipitate out of aqueous ethanol?
Precipitating psilocybin as its calcium salt might be worth a look. Otherwise, perhaps the tartrate or fumarate?
(Finding something that's not too hygroscopic is also - obviously, perhaps - most desirable.)
blue.magic
Esteemed member
downwardsfromzero said:
I have not mentioned aqueous ethanol, just ethanol. The extraction would be anhydrous or at least done with 95% EtOH.
See OP:
endlessness said:
Psilocybin is a zwitterion and amphoteric. It does not behave like DMT or strongly basic alkaloids which readily form various salts. The HCl salt seems to exist, tough I can't find any solid reference :?
I am not chemist but maybe HCl will bind to psilocybin as a strong acid to weak base. Weaker acid may not be able to do that.
Can anyone find that "Anon 2003" article? I can't find it, seems like some "Anonymous" source, not mentioned even in Trout's Notes.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Sorry, I really meant slightly damp ethanol as I presumed you'd be adding aqueous HCl rather than using anhydrous HCl gas. There's a significant (general) difference between absolute ethanol and even 95% ethanol, as I'm sure you will appreciate.
I mention tartrate and fumarate as much for their antioxidant properties as anything, though in fairness I ought to have compared their pKaH values with those of the phosphate group and the trialkylammonium gubbins for it to be a worthwhile comment.
Will psilocybin HCl have a more favourable solubility curve than the neutral zwitterion? It will be exciting if you find out!
hopefully you have sufficient experience to handle methanol safely.
blue.magic
Esteemed member
downwardsfromzero said:
Yes it will be more of an alchemy on my side. No worries, I worked with methanol and many other solvents previously.
Unfortunately I haven't found the water content of the ethanol used in extractions in the referenced articles, so I assumed it was anhydrous.
Having 95% probably may not hurt, as well as adding drop or two of 30% HCl.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Strange that there's a thread about forming the N-acetylated derivative of NMT, I wonder what it is that makes O-acetylation so unacceptable?:twisted:Infundibulum said:
I would suggest that the possibility of internal H-bond formation is one of the things that distinguishes psilocin's properties from those of bufotenine. Pic attached.
Attachments
Interesting idea downwardsfromzero. Do you think increasing ionic strength would put more "squeeze" on the molecules that can be affected by this internal interaction more? I think the geometry you propose may explain why (in a Marvin simulation) increasing ionic strength impacts the partition corfficient in the order psilocybin >> psilocin > bufotenin > harmalol.
For example, from this thread:
For example, from this thread:
Attachments
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
I think this internal interaction hides some of the polarity of psilocin. So the slope seen with increased ionic strength in the graph there may relate to that. What does a similar plot for o-cresol vs. m-cresol look like? Or 4-OH indole vs. 5-OH indole? I'll have to sleep on this one.