My interests and what I can learn from YOU

[BUJUisHAPPY]

Hello Guys and Girls!

I'd like to go into a quick rant how my life lead me here and the relationship I want to establish with this forum : )

My first entry into the world of drugs was encouraged by Breaking Bad (it made me very curious as to why certain substances carry such gravitas). I was also fascinated by the chemical aspect in the production of drugs and am to this day, although I have since ventured into the world of Ethnobotanics and have a fascination with growing plants that so kindly take over all the complicated synthesis

To this day I think the most impactful psychedelic ive encountered is cannabis but to be fair I think this is because I resolved a lot of personal problems and misguided behaviours back then and have since improved myself. If it had been another classic psychedelic as my "first" it would have probably done similar things for me.

Since then I have gotten deeply into the world of classic tea and tisanes, classic psychedelics and am experimenting with different ROA of Salvia Divinorum which helped me immensly with my loneliness after moving to a new city during the pandemic (and therefore having little chance to meet new ppl).

I have to admit that my only DMT experience has been smoking changa once in the forest which was quite intense though it seemed to only be the tip of the iceberg of what else lies behind this substance and its analogs. For now I have decided that DMT along with Iboga will remain things for me to explore in a different (own) time somewhere in the future .

What has drawn me to this forum for a long time now is the extensive knowledge and willingness of users to try new substances, TEKs, administrations etc and several particular members come to mind especially 69ron who I believe sadly already left the forum a long time ago?

Anyways I hope this gave some good insight into who I am and I also hope that I will be able to extend my knowledge and understanding of psychoactives through YOU. I will ofcourse also share the things I find out so we can together make the world of drugs more 21century-worthy :roll:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Hello and welcome. Interesting to see another fellow European come on board - if your stated location is indeed correct

It's great to hear that you're into the horticultural side of things. The general ethos here is that a sustainable approach with regard to entheogens involves growing the plants oneself. So, what plants do you have in your home and/or garden? We all love some nice plant pictures at the Nexus. Personally, I go for cacti as a relatively low-maintenance option. Then again, I've gotten to the stage where all plants each have their own magic of some kind.

As far as helping you expand your knowledge goes, I would point you in the direction of the forum as a whole - just start digging into it and see where it leads you. For example, last night I ended up looking through some of the old posts in the Salvia divinorum subsection of the forum and found some really fascinating stuff in there. The world of psychoactive plants runs practically infinitely deep whether one looks at it from the perspective of biochemistry, philosophy, sociology or whatever. So, perhaps you should ask yourself, not only what do you want to know, but also what do you need to know, and what are your motivations in seeking this knowledge.

You probably already appreciate that Breaking Bad was centred around one particularly destructive drug, methamphetamine, nonetheless it comes to me as something of a relief that you have a focus on tea ("Tea" tea, as one might call it) and tisanes. Where has that taken you so far? Are there any herbs you're particularly fond of?

I'm also intrigued to know what you might mean by "make the world of drugs more 21[st] century worthy". I'm tempted to rephrase it as "make the 21st century world more worthy of (the right kind of) drugs".

Stick around, have a dig into the archives and if there's anything you can't find or are having trouble understanding, just ask and one or other of us will be happy to point you in the right direction.

 

[BUJUisHAPPY]

Hello and thank you downwardsfromzero

You are correct, it is Europe, a slightly different adress than stated though...so greetings!

I absolutely agree that growing plants is the more sustainable approach and often no further modification is needed. But you have to agree that certain substances like lsd have a kind of net benefit when weighed against the trouble of producing them, no? and i do find it likely that there will be a future where scarcity, energy or environmental harm could be dissolved with technology, although I dont really love that idea myself, what on earth would be my use then!? but that is all theorizing anways

Regarding that last comment I mean to say that while other areas of life have had a lot of time to develop technologically, drugs seem a bit stuck, even if this is slowly changing. I wish it were more common to regard being high or intoxicated more like a basic human need, like food really. I dont know if I ever heard of a culture that doesnt know some lil trick to get whoozy. Someone even recently told me about a possible theory that agriculture started off very inefficiently (before thousands of years of cultivating turned it efficient) and therefore would have not been useful as food, only as means of producing a certain alcohol (spuckbier is the german word, a beer that u make by spitting :shock: ) In which case all of modern civilization would be based on beer!


Teas would be a perfect example of what im trying to say and could also answer one of ur questions, even though the thing I will say is a matter for debate: Often coffee is treated as a thing somewhat seperate from the world of drugs but I like to imagine a world where we became more clear about a certain objective of coffee namely that it acts as quite a powerful stimulant and then said ok, the taste aside, is coffee really the best beverage for us (as a stimuant)? By laying out its objective more clearly/more honestly I think people would be more open to try out one of its alternatives, maybe some matcha or guayusa? maybe we would add a small dose of theophylline to each cup of coffee to replicate green teas more balanced stimulation? If coffee is not the optimal drug in the work space for example and causes irritation, agitation, anxiety for certain ppl how profound could the effects be on team work, concentration or a plethora of other things if some ppl discovered other beverages that they prefered. Maybe we would have to mix another compound in to make say, raw cacao, more bioavailable and active. Such things could have already been researched if it were clearer that our objective in this case is to get a good rush instead of trying to look over the fact that these are even drugs at all. I even have this inkling after having worked in different places, that just like with amphetamines, coffee creates such a strong rush, that it makes the zigarette during the break so much more attractive. If u were to drink a strong tea u might ingest the same amount of caffein the difference being that it binds to other substances in the tea and gets released more slowly. Why aren't most ppl aware of this, it could change the attitude and behavior of countless ppl, it could maybe even rid some ppl of their zigarette use! and thats why I think the world of drugs is lagging behind, we have the knowledge and tech, its just not coming to frution and I blame it on our unwillingness to see drugs in a more unbiased way

Phew im sorry i didnt expect this to get so long, regarding ur further questions I will defintely still find the time for myself to talk about "tea tea" and others that I am fond of, or some methods to lure out there effects. And worry not I will do a lot of digging im already very excited especially about being able to use the "search" function now which is a near damn blessing :lol:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Long answers are fine! You're right, coffee really is a powerful stimulant and I often point out to people that it's a drug with a strong potential for addiction, typically in a tone that makes them wonder whether I'm joking or not. I recently (all but) stopped coffee use in order to minimise adverse cardiovascular effects when using Syrian rue tea. I was also a fairly regular drinker of (good, Ceylon) black tea. My coffee use always had a tendency to escalate and the withdrawal periods when I decided enough was enough were usually accompanied by unpleasant headaches - but not when using Syrian rue! It seems most likely that the vasodilator effect of harmala alkaloids prevented this from happening - and when one gets the hang of brewing toasted rue seed it can make a surprisingly palatable coffee substitute. Have you ever looked into/tried Syrian rue (Peganum harmala, Steppenraute)?

Funnily enough, if I do go for a caffeinated drink at the moment it's (a very fine) matcha and the effects are so much more balanced and gentle. Theanine and polyphenols are an important component of that action. I've also found "Biozisch" brand guarana cola to be particularly good mixed over ice with two parts of alcohol-free beer on a hot day. And that I mention beer - yeas, I've heard the beer/agriculture/civilisation theory too. Is humanity messed up simply because we've developed our modern civilisation on the basis of getting hammered? I certainly notice the adverse effects of even a single mild beer, to the extent of practically having stopped drinking alcohol altogether - and that in the face of my earlier enthusiasm for hand-crafted absinthes, except that in that case one can view the alcohol as a necessary solvent for the abundant essential oils that will make up a good quality absinthe. Maybe as an herb fan you'd appreciate a good absinthe too?

But drugs, and more particularly people's view of drugs - well, it's just seems difficult to raise the subject of something like LSD (where I do, incidentally, agree with you for the most part about the utility of this semi-synthetic substance) without some kind of incredulity at best, immature giggling, or repetition of drugs-war propaganda. Then again, it might be better to avoid going in that conversational direction when one has a sizeable proportion of one's garden dedicated to sacred cacti. As far as drugs liberalisation advocacy goes as a whole, I'd have to work on my vocabulary a bit more due to being a non-native in a German-speaking country. Not to mention that there are some deep cultural intricacies that, I feel, make that subject rather more complicated. So yes, it's all nice to be hearing of legislative changes over in north America. It makes me wonder what it would take for those kind of changes to start manifesting in this part of the world.

Oh, and as far as synthesising LSD goes, the most difficult bit is still most preferably carried out by a fungus rather than starting out with something like naphthoquinone, the latter route being tedious and very low-yielding.

 

[BUJUisHAPPY]

Wow hahaha u "feeled me out" here

So right off the bat, I am definetely interested in making better use of alcohols solubility. Although so far this has only resulted in making a maibowle (for english speakers this would be a drink containing galium odoratum steeped in white whine, although maybe the plant is only native to europe idk) which lifted my mood nicely ; ) . I would like to add some extra wormwood to absinthe at some point but the fact that u should redistill it afterwards has made me question if its worth the effort.. Do u by any chance know if filtering the wormwood out would already be sufficient or make for a bad experience?
Im sure this is an interesting area to xplore, at the end of the day I suffer the negative side effects of alcohol quite quickly though, just like you, so in that regard I think tinctures will be of more interest in the long run for me.

Regarding the syrian rue I have had seeds lying around for a long time now and have never dared making a tea. I will definetely scavange for a recipe now, just heard about nausea a lot regarding this tea, is there a way to rid that component? It also caught my attention that u seem to also appreciate that something is palatable rather than just active. Recently I have tried out combining chinese gong fu style brewing with herbs like combretum, gotu kola, mate and have had some very nice results, it itches me to find out how to make some of these herbs flavourful instead of just gulping down a nasty boilt down concoction and it seems gong fu seems to strike a good balance maybe due to its ratio, maybe pouring over multiple boils. Makes me wonder what would happen if u curated these active herbs the same way that tea is, rolling it, fermenting it, shading it etc etc etc... A hidden world of flavors and feelings Its the stuff of dreams for now hahaha

Regarding the situation in german speaking countries I atleast find there are large communities online and advocates of all ages, I hope this could one day be enough to change legislature...and if its the countries across the pond that lead the way and bring change first that is fine by me too, usually their culture and values eventually carry over after all.

At last I wonder what ur stance is on extractions? maybe something like mescalin to you...would you categorize this as semi-synthetic too, is it sustainable, or do you prefer to tough it out and go a more traditional route of consumption?

Im writing this after having had a genmaicha in the most adorable mini porcelain cup and hope u have a good night

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Haha, wonderful! [insert telepathy emoji here]

I happen to have an ever-growing patch of sweet woodruff (as Galium odoratum/Asperula odorata is known in English) in the wild forest corner of my garden. I've started a patch of Asarabacca (Haselwurz) next to it and on the other side is a species of Aconitum so make of that what you will So far I've put the Waldmeister in a fruit pudding (baked desert, not custard!) with vanilla sauce (that's the custard, not pudding!) [←← technical explanation for German speakers :lol: ] That was really tasty.

If you want to "upgrade" your absinthe it's necessary to either distill it or add wormwood essential oil which can be obtained either commercially or steam-distilled at home. You'd need a fairly large quantity of wormwood for that to be properly worthwhile without having to wash out the herbal water distillate with diethyl ether or pentane. If adding the essential oil, it's best to dissolve it in azeotropic or anhydrous ethanol before adding to the mixture - or rather, perhaps, diluting that tincture with the existing absinthe to minimise the separation if you notice clouding. Separation of the essential oils is a detrimental sign for quality and can be tricky to correct - although not as bad as an absinthe with too much wormwood soaked in it!

On that note, I've suffered some fairly hideous TCM decoctions at certain points in my life and have to say I prefer wormwood over that. If you can point me towards some good reading about gong fu herb methods I'd be very grateful. This could be online material, although a booklist might be good as perhaps I could find a space for something to go next to the Chinese herbal on my bookshelf. A few alternative methods of brewing things such as Syrian rue have been discussed here over the aeons, including lacto-fermentation and sun brewing. I'll link to those if I get around to searching.

Syrian rue isn't that bad if you get the toasting technique right. The seeds just need to be toasted sufficiently without burning. The over-toasted - burnt, I guess - seed is horrible in a different way. Avoiding significant addition of acid to the subsequent brew/brews also improves the prospects for a better flavour. I've typically used around 650mg ascorbic acid when brewing with a total of 500mL of fairly significantly hard water. This makes for a cloudy brew as the calcium and magnesium in the water reacts with acids from the rue and precipitates out. This requires filtering through a cotton wool plug, which can take a while. Better is to start with distilled water, to which I add only 200mg ascorbic acid. This was what I found by playing around so I'd encourage you to make your own simple experiments to find what you prefer. The other thing I do is pick through the rue before toasting to remove grit and suspicious-looking material like foreign seeds and animal-derived matter like suspected rodent faeces and insect parts

So, saying all that I've never found nausea to be much of a problem with rue tea and if you work your way slowly into it it's possible to become accustomed to it, although I can't comment on your particular constitution and your ability to tolerate bitter flavours. Maybe do a warm up exercise with bitter salad leaves like chicory and radiccio for a while if you've not eaten much of them before. Then have a few cups of wormwood tea - you're allowed to add honey to this one :lol: If you can do that without problems then the rue brew should be fine. Most people only get nausea - if they do at all - once they start adding an active level of DMT, but that becomes 'anahuasca' and ceases to be merely rue tea.

Extracted alkaloids are not semi-synthetic. The molecules are released unchanged (as far as we know, in the overwhelming majority of cases) from the plant matrix in order to facilitate their isolation. Making a pot of rue tea, for example, is the first step in extracting harmala alkaloids. No synthesis involved there. LSD, by contrast, is produced from (for example) an ergot alkaloid by effectively trimming off a load of peptide-derived shrubbery from one end of the molecule using harsh chemical reagents to give lysergic acid or similar and then using further harsh chemical reagents to force a diethylamine moiety into the same position as where the peptide gubbins was before. That's what I mean by semi-synthetic. One end of the molecule had to be synthesised into place. But that's enough of that line of discussion for now:
2.12 No synthesis talk that uses dangerous/watched chemicals and procedures
so I won't go into what semi-synthetic mescaline means other than that you can in principle start with lilac trees or mustard meal.

So far I've found simple cactus brews to be completely acceptable and much simpler in contrast to the few extraction attempts I've made. Crude cactus alkaloid acetates have the advantage of being more compact - and things are looking promising for the crystal nerds! So, who knows?

One of these days I'll seek out some of these German-speaking online communities you mention. There's a few people I could ask for recommendations, and the language practice might be useful.

I hope you had a good night too. I'll be making a morning cup of matcha soon.