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My Paranoid, Psychotic Near Death Experience

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cellux -

Well, imagine me wandering around the house of a friend at 4:00 AM thinking that I should perhaps try to call the phone number of my "previous" home to determine whether my parents still exist. Finally I called a close friend instead who sleepily confirmed that he also exists in this "new" universe.
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I know where your’ coming from! I looked back into the room which I had just left expecting to see my physical body dead inside:shock: I felt like a dead man walking- there was a dream-like, surreal atmosphere that was somehow sombre and holy and removed from everyday experience. BTW, I checked out the link you provided- excellent read, it also led me to Tim Leary's 8 circuit theory of consciousness which I was previously unaware of - thanks :lol:



DMTripper -

I've had several experiences like this and believe me or not you get used to it quite fast
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Thank you mate. It's just great to know that I'm not the first and I won't be the last! Nobody in my circle knows of the spice and so I did feel a little isolated. My God this stuff takes you deep. I have been reading the posts of others as Polytrip suggested and I now feel more able to continue with regular daily life. The experience seems to have been at least partly integrated but I do remain quite 'spooked'.:shock:

I understand when you say that it's harder to accept your death now that you have acquired a daughter. For all the shock and finality of the experience I was not afraid of dying. I felt only a great sense of timeless, ancient Love. There was nothing to fear there. I was afraid for the living. I was afraid only for those left behind without me. The scribbled note which I was trying to leave for my wife said 'don't worry ... it's OK ... God loves you...I've seen it' etc.

As for the nature of consciousness ... I can't understand how the brain can produce that. I understand that consciousness in the individual can be altered by surgical, electronic and chemical methods in the lab. That would lead one to assume that consciousness is a product of meat-brain. I can accept that the brain somehow colours, interferes with or tunes an individual's consciousness. I just don't see how the brain can produce consciousness. For example; a particular wavelength of photons and subsequent processing of the brain is necessary to see the colour red. This can be artificially induced in the lab. But no neuro-chemical process is the colour red. I cannot help but speculate that the brain is certainly involved in an individual's interpretation of awareness/consciousness but cannot be the originator. I speculate that an individual brain is like a TV receiver. The TV does not produce the programme. Yes the TV may be stimulated in the lab to malfunction colours and sounds but that is not the actual broadcast. It cannot produce that. It may be broken and unable to receive anything. But the broadcast continues regardless. It may however be re-tuned to alternative frequencies. If you live close to the border you may be able to re-tune to receive foreign broadcasts . . . .

So are we the TV or an individual example of the broadcast :?:


MagikVenom -

I to have thought much about the location of the goal posts and often consider the fact that there may may be no location at all and it is entirely possible that this is all completely pointless and has no meaning what so ever.
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Whilst I acknowledge the possibility of this (and I, personally, have no 'faith') it seems, to me, unlikely. I am still struggling to sift the wheat from the chaff of my NDE. I have to be carefull to discount not just the obvious delusions but also the influence of my own interpretation at the time. I understand more now why others have advised not to attempt any sort of internal dialogue of interpretation during the experience. Despite the difficulties, I assert that there is something there. I felt a presence that was so unbelievably ancient that its age itself was heavy and deep. It was as though this thing has always been there.

always.

It's very easy to say always. I say it all the time. But I do really mean that this Holy presence or process of death or whatever one would call it has always been here. I believe that it's here now- I just can’t feel it at the moment.
 
transitory said:
As for the nature of consciousness ... I can't understand how the brain can produce that. I understand that consciousness in the individual can be altered by surgical, electronic and chemical methods in the lab. That would lead one to assume that consciousness is a product of meat-brain.
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Our brain is just a tool of the consciousness to operate in this world. If the brain is damaged, how is consciousness supposed to appear whole? It might look like part of the consciousness was damaged but it is just the brain. Consciousness can not be damaged in this world.
 
OP. This same thing has happened top me. no bullshit. and it is better to go easy. just like falling asleep...zzz...the end. its a lesson. when it is time you know it is time. and we all have to sleep some time.
 
I looked death in the face on a ketamine trip. I do not mean I had a NDE, or had any kind of crossing over experience. More like the dark, doom-filled side of death filled my emotions like an energy, a strong dark energy of the sorrow of death, with no insight beyond the physical.

I thought of loved one's dying, and felt the sorrow I would feel; magnified tenfold. I worried that the more I felt this energy, and the more I thought about my loved one's dying, then the closer to the forefront of reality it would bring their death. I tried to fight it and the more I felt it.

This was a harrowing experience, particularly as I had never had a bad experience with K, though I have no real relationship with the substance. I have tried to see what I can gain from it, but have failed, and have no interest in using ketamine ever again.

I have no idea what the spice will show me, but whatever it does, whether positive or negative, will be far greater than anything like ketamine could offer me. It sounds like transitory had quite an experience, a negative one, but one where an infinite more can be learned, than I could have ever learnt from my bizarre ketamine death trip. I follow and trust my instincts, and although my ketamine experience could probably be interprated in some way, using thought, my instincts tell me otherwise. I have a complete indifference to the experience and the drug. Except for one point however. Maybe I have to face up to the sorrow of death in some way, for some reason. I have lost a loved one since that experience, my father; who I found, in a similar fashion to how transitory envisioned his wife finding him. I felt great sorrow, but was able to handle it alot better than I thought I ever could. Although the trip and my father's death where 4 or 5 years apart, maybe I had a baptism of fire.

Macre.
 
Hello transitory,
I speak within your thread as a direct result of experiencing a rather ground shaking journey, that occured about an hour ago.
I feel I should offer a warning of graphic context in the following:

I am still shaking and reeling from the visions I experienced, as they were not of simply dying.
They depicted images of the human body torn open with blood and gore.
It began as simply a strong vibrating sensation, then I saw a rapid series of these images, or rather the process of it occuring. It was told to me to be the phenomenon of "DMT pop".

The ultimate expression was that DMT chooses an individual once in a while to take, to kill.
I was convinced that I had come across images on the internet previously that depicted such deaths, though now in a clear head, I do not ever recall seeing this nor where I could find it.

There were also visions of my beloved wife in between with her holding my hand and saying "DMT pop" among some other words that are not clear to me.
I opened my eyes frantically and looked down at my hands to see flashes of my flesh breaking open, and felt like I was being told that I am next. I was chosen to be the next person taken by DMT pop.
As everything churned around me I breathed deeply, trying to calm myself and allow the dmt effects to subside, which they did not. I scrambled to the door of the room I was in and attempted to open it for a minute to no avail. There was no door nob...

I eventually opened the door and came upstairs, trembling the entire time in fear that my body would split open and my wife would come home to the horror of this scene. I lay down upon the carpet and once again tried to control my breath. This time it began to work.
I felt a wave of nausea come and go, but otherwise I gradually came down to a stable plateau.
I began to search for anything on the net regarding such images but told myself not to as the graphics may send me over the top.

Then I found your post.

Interestingly enough, the last time I went in, I saw vivid depictions of coils of wire, that when they touch flesh it would fizzle and pop to cause it to burst open and black liquid would pour out. I was very shaken by this too.
I had been working recently with nichrome wire (with low voltages and currents) to use for various purposes, so I think this may have filtered into my consciousness. Otherwise, I use stainless steel wool for vaporizing, and this too could have been the source of that imagery. No clue...


I am still gathering thoughts so I apologise for not being able to extend further thought or insight into your topic.
At least I can share however, that I share your experiences, and am still alive, albiet with an even stronger drive to dynamically expand my life.

I send warm regards and support to my fellow being.
 
One time I talked to mother Teresa and she said if I wanted I could reincarnate as anyone, and I was tempted but knew that my body(who I am now) would die and that I could not allow so I eventually decided that I was tripping and woke up out of my mind. I think a lot of dmt trips are mind made, but the mind is so strong that actually you could die if only you said okay while in a dmt trip because dmt gives your consciousness more power. Just remember, it is a tool not a way, use it to look into the other world and come back, so that when you are back you can learn to look again without the tool any longer. This way you will be truly victorious because you didn't induce this power through drugs, but instead through consciousness itself. Decide to wake up!

This is my perspective, it is only one, with love and peace.
 
the mind is so strong that actually you could die if only you said okay while in a dmt trip because dmt gives your consciousness more power
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My only hope in this respect is that perhaps even while tripping the fate that is driving my life (the higher circle) has veto power over my own personal decisions. Even if this is not so, and we can really become the ultimate decision maker, I believe that we are in the hands of a loving God who somehow wouldn't allow us to suffer meaninglessly in such a way (I remember one case when I voluntarily died on a trip - an invisible power took control of me, did the hard, transformative part which I myself couldn't carry out and then recreated me some seconds later). Btw, Stanislav Grof mentions only one case - among several thousands - where the experimental subject suddenly died during the course of an LSD trip without any apparent reasons. I find this quite reassuring, especially if we consider the fact that psychedelic psychotherapists tend to actively encourage their patients to let go and step into "death" when such situations arise.
 
re: Dreammethodtool

Well, one man's bad trip may be another's delight. From what you wrote I came to the conclusion that I would probably like the experience you went through. I definitely enjoy when I'm being shredded into pieces, ground or anything along those lines, provided of course that I'm already awake in my spirit body. :)

Btw, your descriptions also reminded me of Grof's BPM III (volcanic ecstasy):

The sadomasochistic element is a prominent and constant feature of experiences related to the third perinatal matrix. The sequences of scenes accompanied by enormous discharges of destructive and self-destructive impulses and energies can be so powerful that subjects refer to them as "sadomasochistic orgies." They involve tortures and cruelties of all kinds, bestial murders and mass executions, violent battles and revolutions, exterminating expeditions such as the crusades or the conquest of Mexico and Peru, mutilations and self-mutilations of religious fanatics as exemplified by various sects of flagellants or the Russian Skopzy, [Footnote: Skopzy ( Russian word meaning literally "rams" ) was a Russian religious sect, the members of which mutilated themselves, in particular by self-castration.] bloody ritual sacrifice or self-sacrifice, the kamikaze phenomenon, various terrifying modes of bloody suicide, or the senseless slaughtering of animals. Individuals tend to identify with ruthless dictators, tyrants, and cruel military leaders responsible for the death of thousands or millions of people, such as Emperor Nero, Genghis Khan, Francisco Pizarro, Hernando Cortes, Hitler, or Stalin. Other personalities known for their sadistic perversions also occur occasionally in this context: Salome, Cesare Borgia, Vlad Tepes of Transylvania ( "Count Dracula" ), [Footnote: Vlad Tepes, or the Voivode Dracula, was a minor ruler who, in the fifteenth century, governed the small province of Walachia. His nickname, tepes, means literally "the impaler"; it refers to his habit of impaling executed victims on the ends of pointed sticks. According to some sources, he was responsible for the execution of over a hundred thousand victims. He was used by the Irish writer Bram Stoker as an inspiration for his novel Dracula.] Elizabeth Bathory, [Footnote: Elizabeth Bathory was a sixteenth-century Hungarian countess who tortured young girls and then murdered them so that she could bathe in their blood. She was also known for her excessive use of an ingenious torturing gadget, the iron maiden.] as well as famous contemporary mass murderers. LSD subjects tuned in to BPM III feel that they not only can understand the motivations of such deviants but that they themselves harbor in their unconscious forces of the same nature and intensity and could, under certain circumstances, commit similar crimes. They can assume quite readily all the roles involved in complex sadomasochistic scenes, such as the group sacrifice of Christians in ancient Rome by immolation on crosses or by predatory beasts in the arena, the Aztec hecatombs in which tens of thousands of victims were ritually slaughtered in a single day, the burning of heretics in mass auto-da-fes of the Holy Inquisition, or the cool and premeditated atrocities of the Nazis. The power struggle in the royal courts and political circles of all ages, with its "cloak and dagger" atmosphere, is another frequent symbolism of this type.
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Hi Dreammethodtool,

It has now been sixteen days since the experience which I reported. I can assure you that all fear and confusion associated with your own experience will pass. Although I was shaken for days and have not since journeyed I have now almost fully integrated the experience- something which I would not have thought possible at the time. I feel that the important thing now is to work with your experience and that which it has revealed about yourself and the world. Work with this whilst it remains 'clear and present'. This is an opportunity which may not again arise for you.

I suspect that the delusions (whilst unpleasant, obviously) are only the mechanism of NDE interpretation. The belief system created and employed by the mind in its attempt at the interpretation of ego death events. It would appear that one of the most fundamental functions of the human mind is to give meaning/explanation to events. The events in themselves may not inherently possess the qualities of horror which we so readily attribute to them. I have learnt a great deal not only about the timeless mystery of an individual's being/ending but also about the actual psychological process that is ever confusing the issue!

If you feel that it may be too soon to return then stay away from the spice for a while. And reflect, reflect, reflect :d



damiana, cellux -

the mind is so strong that actually you could die if only you said okay while in a dmt trip because dmt gives your consciousness more power
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My only hope in this respect is that perhaps even while tripping the fate that is driving my life (the higher circle) has veto power over my own personal decisions.
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Some time ago, I entered a trance-like eyes-closed space with the single clear question: 'would it be possible for me to do harm here?' The answer I received (from two very powerfull Psychedelic creation machine beings) was that 'Nothing can happen here unless it has been allowed (by the higher power) to happen'.



Make of that as you will :?
 
Some time ago, I entered a trance-like eyes-closed space with the single clear question: 'would it be possible for me to do harm here?' The answer I received (from two very powerfull Psychedelic creation machine beings) was that 'Nothing can happen here unless it has been allowed (by the higher power) to happen'.
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I've always wondered why certain abilities only work under certain circumstances.
As Dorge said, you get what you need.
 
I experienced what I have come to know as ego death about 1.5 years ago. My friend and I had taken a little less than 4g of some incredibly strong mushrooms and we decided to go into the pitch black basement "to see what it was like." My life drastically changed after those 4 hours that we spent in complete darkness. I had no idea what happened- it is completely ineffable- and I was completely lost in every aspect of my life because of this. So in order to rectify my worsening personal situation, I spent countless hours over the course of 4 months or so, incessantly reading everything about different religions (I was a catholic), other's experiences, quantum physics, just basically everything I could get my hands on. I was so confused and eventually talked about my problems on a small private online community which I had been a part of for the past several years. One of my friends knew exactly what to say to me, as he was an atheist graduate student in the religious studies (hah). He directed me too St. John of the Cross' "The Dark Night of the Soul" (http://www.karmel.at/ics/john/dn.html) and as soon as I had read through it a bit, everything fell into place and it felt like the whole world had been lifted off of my shoulders.

I have come a long ways since then, and now am extremely happy spiritually. Everything makes sense to me, everything from how our minds work, to our relationship with "god" and how theoretical physics comes into play. This is also why I am beginning to dabble in DMT- because I want more shit to figure out. I look at DMT as a gateway to a realm which holds some of the most profound learning experiences. The world we live in is absolutely incredible and I can't get enough of it!
 
Rivoting story.

I've had a few such panic attacks while on psychedelics. So surreal, to this day they still give me shudders a little bit. Not because I felt the fear of death but rather my ego is squirming to avoid it. I feel that DMT shows you not what you WANT to see, but what you NEED to see. Each trip has an important lesson to teach you, the higher doses have more serious issues to have you address. Clearly you were pushing the limit and reached your greatest most primal fear. Death. It seems clear to me that you must conquer your fear of death and let go. The stronger you try to hold onto this world the more suffering you will experience, because all things are temporary. This is one thing I believe the journey was attempting to get into your head.
According to the Tibetian Book of the Dead (which I suggest as reading for all.), the majority of people when faced with their death will freak out and fight it. But as any good tripper knows, fighting it is the worst thing you can do and almost always leads to a bad trip. According to this Buddhist philosophy, many refuse to accept they've died, they refuse to let go of the world and so they become trapped within it, indefinitely reliving their fears, regrets and sorrow. This is what Buddhists call the realm of Hell. A continual bad trip.
I would suggest doing some meditation, freeing your mind and letting go. I think it is DMT's role in our dreams is to work out these issues so that when the end of our mortal body comes.... we will know peace and accept whatever may come.



Infinitas, Great post. My friend has a similar situation facing his ego death on mushrooms. He is still shaken to this day, and has kind of fallen off the deep end basically believing any religion that offers him hope. I can sense it is fear which drives his motives. I will recommend this reading to him and hopefully work out exactly how we can transform this darkness into a better understanding of reality. (p.s. nice name)
 
Yes it can be shocking. Be prepared to have your ass kicked once in a while for certain. There are messages to be taken from these experiences however. I found that taking the spice too lightly will wind up with an ass handed to you quickly - your own.

The closest I came to complete ego death was on the Sally - I had no idea what to expect and was ripped out of this realm and rolled - physically - into a new one. I was greeted by "my family" (?) who I had never seen before but felt very familiar. I was told that the life I just had was a trip and I was back. I was scolded for wasting time, told to get into my usual spot in the corner...where I melded with the ground as if I were a plant. The whole space was very confusing and felt a strange mix of 2D and 3D - which could possibly have been my brain projecting as best possible the image of 4D. I became scared and sadened as I realized that that was reality and this was all a joke. I was sadened because I had left behind my wife and family without saying goodbye...and felt as if I had failed in this test. I settled down to relax in my new - old - home for some time then I started to hear voices. The voices were those of the friends I was with as I started to come out of it.

Spice has done the same thing but I have been scared - momentarily - on some heavy doses. The Sally experience was terrifying from the get go. I have managed to "let go" more freely now as I have little fear of dying.

Just give it a rest and reflect for a while, then start off with smaller doses once you're ready and see how it goes.
 
"Death is a twirl; death is a shiny cloud over the horizon; death is me talking to you; death is you and your writing pad; death is nothing. Nothing! It is here, yet it isn't here at all." - Carlos Castaneda

Don Juan said that Death is a presence, with you always. Constantly over your shoulder, waiting to tap you when it is your time.

Death and dying is a common theme and experience in Shamanism. It doesn't surprise me at all that you are experiencing this on high doses of "shamanic" hallucinogens. I think most people who do try this stuff will have to face such things at one time or another.

I had a "near-death experience" of my own without being under the effects of any substances. This happened years ago. I had just woken up from sleep, in between states, I guess. Suddenly I just felt an energy pushing me, I was pushing myself, like the pressure was building up in my head. I felt like I was blasting off in a way, and as I went, I saw all the little things that were important to me in my life fade away, and get smaller and smaller. I was about to break-through, and at that point I felt myself pushing through a wall - a big infinitely huge barrier in a black void. As I was about to break through it, I suddenly had a realization that if I went any further I would die. I felt that on the other side was death. It was a palpable sensation, though perhaps that was just my terror. I was overcome with fear, and I turned back. I opened my eyes in bed and was scared shitless... I felt like there was a malevolent presence still lurking in the darkness of the room around me. I must say that at the time, I was also in a bad state in my life. Dealing with a lot of negative energy, so that could have had something to do with it.

As any Terrence McKennophile knows, the realms of DMT have often been compared to the bardos of death and dying in Tibetian Buddhism. In a sense, we are experiencing a mini death. At least I hope we are. We would be so lucky if the realms after death resemble anything like a DMT state, in my humble opinion.

I think your problem is fear. Fear and attatchment. The ego is fighting back against its dissolution. Creating paranoid stories in your mind. Let go of the fear, accept death. But also make sure you are ready for it, and have comes to terms with it. If you do, I think you may discover that the experience will not be so fearful. It may even be enlightening.
 
Hello,

It's been a month now and I'd just like to thank everyone for their kind sharing. Every single response has been, without exception, a great help to me and each comment has in turn illuminated another facet of this strange jewel of an experience. Thank you all so much for contributing all that you have. The quality & variety of insight here has amazed me. Truly. I am humbled. Thank you.

One concern that I do have is that those new to the spice may read my first post here and be terribly afraid of the spice experience that may befall them.

Do not be afraid. The most profound & disturbing experience of my life has been fully integrated into my normal daily living. I have not been harmed or damaged in any way whatsoever. Nor was I ever likely to be.

DMT is the real thing.

There is something terribly Holy about all this and I'm sticking around to see how it plays out.

Thank you x




When there is not a whisper among the trees and every thought has withered away, then it may come to you, the otherness . . . Go further away from the valley, far away, leaving everything down there. You can come back and pick them up if you want to but they will have lost their weight. You will never be the same again.

J. Krishnamurti Krishnamurti's Journal Brockwood Park 12th Entry 25th September 1973
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