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Natalensis vs Cubensis - a few notes from the mycelial interwebz

Migrated topic.

Bancopuma

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In case it might be of use or interest to fellow Nexian psilonauts, sharing some testimonials concerning cultivation and perceived potency and qualitative differences between P. natalensis and P. cubensis mushrooms sourced from the mycelial interwebz, having scanned a few forums (such as the Shroomery and Mycotopia) and various Reddit groups. I did this while doing some research because I was unable to track down a single article on the web on Natalensis (or much information on it of any kind really). For anyone unfamiliar with it, P. natalensis is a closely related sister species to P. cubensis native to South Africa. Due to the lack of available information, sharing this in case it might inspire interest or be useful to people. I feel this is important information to share, particularly for beginner mushroom growers, as this is widely reported to be a more forgiving and tenacious species to grow (with more aggressive mycelium that can eat through moulds potentially, unlike Cubensis), while also generally being preferred for the experience it provides. It can be grown in the same way as Cubensis, with some growers stating that it prefers a little more fresh air exchange during fruiting. It is widely reported as being more potent than your average Cubensis while being smoother on the body, with less body load and an easier come-up, and yielding a cleaner/clearer headspace that is often reported as being friendlier and more positive or uplifting in comparison to Cubensis. My intention here is not to slate Cubensis...I'm hugely grateful for this mushroom and some of my most amazing experiences have resulted from ingesting it. But still there is more to the psilocybin mushroom world than it alone, and Natalensis seems like a species worthy of more attention.

These accounts in no way suggest that ingesting Natalensis mushrooms make one bulletproof when it comes to bad trips or anything like that, and I appreciate these accounts may come across as cherry-picking. I haven't read the gargantuan 375-page thread on the Shroomery linked below in its entirety, and this would be worth delving into if you want to find out more, as it likely includes negative experiences too which may provide some balance.

Articles bringing together some of the information on this species can be found here and here.

Please feel free to add your own views based on your experiences growing or sampling this species in response to this post.

Summary taken from a Shroomery thread on P. natalensis:

Psilocybe natalensis:

- Are stronger than most Cubensis, on average.
- Grow with same teks and substrates as Cubensis.
- Grow fast.
- Have super aggressive, unstoppable mycelium that uses contam as food.
- Sometimes overlay, but you can pick that off and make it into active tea.
- Fewer bad trips than Cubensis.
- Different trip than Cubensis, some folks like it more. Maybe "friendlier" trip is a better term.


Cultivation:

"I wouldn't be surprised if Natalensis becomes the most common cultivated species within the next 5-10 years, lots of cloning/isolates needed to dial in specific phenos but yeah, IMHO it's far superior."

"This is a mushroom that's highly resistant to contamination, tolerant of low temperatures (natalensis grows just fine at 65 degrees F.), and crazy fast at colonizing grain and substrate."

"Natalensis ticks all the boxes, from cultivation to the experience they offer."

"My favourite strain, my culture is stupidly fast and aggressive and hella potent."

"It grows under the very same conditions as Cube varieties do, only much more aggressive. So it's actually easier to grow than Cubes."

"Natalensis are as easy to grow as Cubensis but stronger and seem to be a happier experience for most."

"Treat them the same as Cubensis."

"Treat just like cubes. Super aggressive mycelium."

"Natalensis are like Cubensis, but grow some really vigorous mycelium."

"They’re a great trip and a nice alternative to growing Cubensis with pretty much the same process. They need more FAE (fresh air exchange) but will manage with standard Cubensis process."

"They require a little more fae than cubes but not much else different."

"You can pretty much treat them exactly like cubensis. They do like a little more fresh air."

"P. natalensis will grow easily and aggressively. Needs 5x more air [than Cubensis]."

"I do think nats like just a little more fresh air than most cubes do."

"They need a shit ton of FAE, a lot more than cubes."

"Q: Any more difficult than Cubensis to grow? A: Not at all, used the same process/tek as Cubensis. I was worried with all the information I was coming across on whether cvg would take or not, worked out just fine."

"Natalensis are pretty hardy and this was only 210g wet first flush. They are a little quicker than Cubensis but yield less. I’ve been getting 3 decent flushes so total yield isn’t much different."

"Growing these guys is definitely fun tho and the extremely aggressive behavior of the myc might be much better for new growers."

"P. natalensis is also very resilient to contamination and disease, making it a desirable species for cultivation."

"They do seem more resistant to contams than cubes. They appear to respond with super aggressive growth and overlay to any contams."

"I think this species is so close to wild yet that a lot of work cloning/isolating yet to be done but hoping soon they will be the go to for new cultivators as it's such a forgiving species, I've seen the mycelium clouds literally eat trich and bacteria and shit out flushes in response."

"Here is another example of how tough Natalensis is. …it got some funk [mould] on it. Despite that, the mycelium colonised the rest of the jar and is starting to work on the bad section."

"The mycelium of this strain is crazy hungry, and extremely resistant to contamination. If you see mold growing, it will soon be consumed."

"Super aggressive mycelium that's so fast it's contam resistant almost like oysters."

"I love how aggressive the mycelium is. It marches through what seems to be contaminated grain like an unstoppable juggernaut."

"They are fast growers, very strong against contams."

"Natalensis grow fast and rhizo and resist most contams IME, but they often overlay like crazy."

"My culture does eat through Trichoderma [mould], or at least I’ve seen it happen with this culture on two tubs. My other tubs didn’t contaminate visually if at all but a couple got a green spot, next day completely dusted green, thought it was dead but left it with the lid locked for four days and I came back to check it and it had pinned. 1oz dry flush too, no fruit damage."

"Natalensis are so fun and forgiving. I think one of my jars has (had) mould but it looks like it might be eating it up."

"I just grew a few bags, I did 16 different strains, I have very positive reviews on the P. natalensis - they finished 3 flushes before the other strains could do the first flush."

"Your next grow should be Psilocybe natalensis. Not much more difficult than Cubensis to grow. But they will take you out of this universe."

"I feel like Nats are the new, next gen easy-to-grow cultivation mushroom, and there is so much research to be done."

"If these aren't Cubensis, and they consistently behave as this thread suggests, they may just become the new Cubensis."


Potency:

"They’re usually around 1.5x potency of Cubensis."

"They are about 1.5x as potent as a standard Cubensis I’d say."

"Natalensis are more like 1.5 times as potent as Cubensis."

"Psilocybe natalensis are 1.5-2x more potent and average cubes, less mental fuck and more blissful."

"Natalensis are about double the potency on average compared to Cubensis."

"They are about double the potency on average compated to cubes."

"They are close to 2x stronger than most cubes."

"About twice as strong [as Cubensis] with a nicer come up."

"They are super strong though like 2x the strength of cubes."

"The natalensis I've had were 2-3x stronger than regular cubensis. Although that could just be personal sensitivity or an unusually potent variety."

"3g of Nats sent me to the shadow realm (in a good way), felt like 6g of cubes."

"I had a gram of my Nats last week and it definitely felt comparable to 2+ grams of cubes. Seems to me that the onset is smoother but I did get a little anxious after the peak when I realized just how hard that gram had hit."

"Tried Natalensis out for the 1st time last night. A 2.3g tea fried me! Totally taken by surprise how strong these were. Thought I peaked then an hour later - got slammed hard. I'd put these right up there with APE [Cubensis]."

"It was very very obvious that 2 grams of Natalensis felt like 5 grams Cubensis. My reality was shattered. I began to question my career and intentions. Trip is very “loopy” and visually stimulating. Will potentially kick your ass."

"My Nats are super strong. Stronger than PE and Jack Frost - probably 3x the average cube and very visual. Mushrooms have never given me visuals like these Nats did."

"…it's a different species then Cubensis. They are much stronger too."

"I’d say they are potent like a TaT or ape [Cubensis] strain, definitely stronger than a golden teacher."

"Natalensis are super strong just warning you lol it felt like I took almost 5g [of Cubensis] but I took 2.6g."

"My experience was very profound on just 1.5g via tea; definitely stronger than cubes at the same dose, but extremely gentle, as many have stated."

"Last night I took Natalensis. 1.5g knocked me out of this world. It came on very quickly (about 30min) and then kept intensifying for about 3 more hours."

"Natalensis are about twice as potent as Cubensis but the body load is still there."

"South African here, I recently grew P. Natalensis and tripped last Friday... WOW. A friend and I wanted to give these guys a try – so we each took 1.8g, expecting a light buzz and maybe some mild visuals. To keep a long story short, the come up was at most 10 minutes, and the 1.8g was the strongest, most intense trip I’ve experienced by a lightyear – far exceeding my previous maximum dose which was 8g of P. Cubensis."

"I suggest starting at 1g to test potency, 2-3 grams people reporting DMT like OBE already."


Qualitative effects:

"Finally tried 2 grams. Never eating cubes again. Freakin amazing. Cubes just don't mix well with me, bad body load on the come-up it is always uncomfortable. Large doses of cubes also just made me so fucked I didn’t really remember much. But damn these are so smooth and clean."

"They are usually on par with PE. So around 2x but the trip is superior to cubes. They are more visual, highly euphoric and zero body load. I stopped taking cube’s because they made me bloated and miserable. Nats are really clean feeling. Even high doses are wonderful."

"These were the most uplifting, less anxious, most friendly mushrooms I have ever taken and for those who are yet to try them, I highly encourage you do so. I am in love."

"Don’t want to make a super long post but this HAS to be said. I’ve tried a few different types of shrooms, and many different types of cubes. But I can wholeheartedly say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Natalensis is the best of the best. Incredibly strong and visual, but with such a “clean” headspace. I could hardly believe it was only mushrooms, felt like I was hippieflipping in a way. Guys, please try some nats."

"These are hands down the best strain I ever have tried...haven't tried pans yet but these grow super fast and easy. Deff more therapeutic/healing/spiritual for me...cubes give me a crazy body load and I feel more on edge it's weird af."

"For mental health this is the best species I've tried. So much friendlier than cubes. With cubes I would never take them when in an active depression because of the edginess and chance of a dark head space."

"Psilocybe natalensis are hands down the best strain/type of magic fungi I have ever had the pleasure of ingesting. Cubensis give me a heavy body load and I feel a bit more on edge. Pnats had me feeling like a real clean acid trip almost (was a thought I had a few times while on them). They are super euphoric and very spiritual as well."

"I get less body load, less brain fog and feel more awake on Nats. The visuals are lighter and it just feels like an all around cleaner trip. On cubes I always feel a little bit of an emotional roller coaster and I tend to cry at least once per trip. Nats feel more stable and I tend to just feel relaxed, happy and peaceful. I love them and I’ll never grow anything else again. Best trips I’ve ever had."

"They feel very different to cubes to me, cubes are confusing, heavy on the body, and just overall aren’t very fun for me, while nats are light on the body, clearheaded, and are very fun, as well as having very distinct visuals (they have the typical shroom visuals+some of their own flair)."

"P. natalensis is my favorite mushroom to trip with. In my experience, the onset is more gentle than cubes (less anxiety). The visuals are unbelievably colorful and clear, compared to P. cubensis."

"Best trip I’ve had taking shrooms. I’ve done them about 25 other times with cubes. Nats are a different vibe. Very positive!"

"P. Natalensis hands down... the headspace is so uplifting and enjoyable where cubes have tendency to get weird and heavy introspective shit..."

"I personally won't dose high with cubes cause they're scary as shit but nats are so much nicer."

"I tend to be happier on Nats. They seem less edgy to me [than Cubensis]."

"I've just tried Natalensis and am in love. So light, sparkly, upbeat, joyous."

"If cubensis is a rollercoaster, natalensis is a water slide."

"Cubes have an edge and a dark side that make me wary. But Nats are kinder to me. I did get paranoid one time on a higher dose but it was much more manageable than with cubes."

"The experience is also very unique. Really hard to beat, and can make cubes seem harsh and synthetic in way, when compared."

"Gotta say I don’t really have any interest in cubes anymore, they never had me laughing and having that much fun as natalensis."

"Will never eat another regular cube again after eating these lol love to grow them as well."

"Yeah definitely do feel way more healing and therapeutic [than Cubensis] for sure! I definitely feel way better for days after unlike cubes. Just overall better experience from start to finish and the days after are all noticeably better."

"They are a superior trip to cubensis for sure. Stronger than most cubes, very euphoric, and very little body load. I’ve done high doses with them and feel like I could have doubled my dose and just had more fun lol."

"The biggest difference for me is the headspace. Most cubes make me anxious as fuck. On natalensis, my mind goes where I direct it. Even on high doses, I am confident that I am in control of the experience. Dreamy euphoria that comes without conditions. The onset is gradual, no need to buckle up. Minimal body load."

"After Natalensis, I'll rarely touch a Cubensis again save for microdosing."

"I've tried some other strains since making this first post, but still had the best experiences with Natalensis."

“Currently my new favorite the only way I can describe it is it feels cleaner I don't get any preflight anxiety...I wouldn't say their a whole lot more potent definitely stronger but it's a much clearer headspace for me love em.”

"I had very mild nausea on the come up and then waves of bliss kinda body high and ZERO nausea....it was epic! Cubes make me feel shitty and I take zofran/ginger just to lower the nausea, I will probably never eat another cube after trying Nats overlay 1 time."

"These are a great trip. Little to no body load, very visual, and extremely euphoric."

"They do IME have a different trip than Cubensis too. I find them to have little body load, great visuals, and very euphoric. Very nice trip."

"They are amazing, fairly certain there's compounds present that aren't in ps cubensis, they are noticeably different both in the headspace and visuals."

"I can only compare them to APE [Cubensis], and I prefer these. I guess you could say they're about equal in strength, but they give me a whole different level of trip. If cubes are 3D, Natalensis are 4D."

"Like 3g of Amazonians or GT's [Cubensis] vs 3g Natalensis strength wise the Natalensis is more potent but not by much (IMPO) but the trips are different, that much is for sure...put it this way this strain is in many growers top 5."

"It was such a clean feeling trip too. Minimal nausea. Smooth come up. They’re a 10/10 for me and I probably won’t grow anything else for a while."

"They have the most gentle come up, no nausea at all for me. And they are very strong. It's a much more intense trip than Cubensis. And longer lasting."

"Cultivators are describing Natalensis to be as potent as Penis Envy Cubensis while offering a qualitatively superior experience to P. cubensis."

"The trip is definitely a bit different. Better come up and down. Also feel overall on general that lasts longer."

"Come up and down was super smooth. Overall trip felt longer than cubes. No come up anxiety either."

"I found the experience to be much more preferable than Cubes. More smooth, mild, and euphoric. Very little body load as mentioned."

"I ate about 1.5 grams of Nats I grew. Incredibly potent and visual without any body load or anxiety. Very clear headed. I liked it so much I vowed to focus mostly on growing Nats for a while."

"I don’t think I'll do cubes again I’ll save them for microdosing nats have changed my entire outlook on mushrooms."

"Macrodose is better than cubes, bar none. It is cleaner head space, low or lack of body load, and the visuals are different. I wish I could articulate what different means."

"Nats imo are better quality trip then any cube they are a different trip less body load, less anxiety, better visuals, can fall sleep easier, and ur not constantly yawning lol."

"I don’t see myself likely to trip on cubes again. Or at least not often. Nats have given me the best trips. When I trip on cubes I’ll often lost the ability to talk and that makes me feel very uneasy. The first time I took Nats I felt so clear headed. I was able to perfectly describe the visuals to my girlfriend and communicate."

"In my experience they have a pronounced empathogenic like headspace and overall sedating feel to them, also no thought loops like cubes. They are all around better for me. Definitely a different compound profile."

"Noticeably different [to Cubensis], I feel a strong empathogen like overtone and little less open eye visuals with stinger closed eye visuals... Certainly more potent. ... By far my favorite species to consume atm."

"Can confirm these are cube killers! I will also most likely not dose cubes for an experience again. The come up is strong, but so clean! And to put clean into words I mean there is ZERO body load that you find with regular cubes. No stomach aching, no weird uncomfortable state between sober-peak, it just shoots you off in about 20-30 minutes."

"Subjective of course, but I definitely agree with the consensus here. Very visual and euphoric, but with an almost sober head space and very little body load. I've only had one trip on them so far, 2gs, but it was fantastic, possibly the best trip I've had on mushrooms, definitely the most fun."

"Very clear headed, it makes the world look more real than it already is, like high definition cinematic god mode. I don’t think I’ll ever eat cubes again, these were on another level all together."

"If you've done acid, that's the best visual comparison. Headspace is calm, no racing thoughts. Less of a body load, more of a "head high" like sativa vs indica. They make my body buzz like I took an addy. I tripped on some cubes the other day and absolutely hated it. I've been spoiled by the nats."

"I just tried P. natalensis for the first time recently, the South African cousin species to cubensis. The trip was actually rather different from cubes, for me at least. It felt more mellow in the head, but the body load was euphoric and lovely. If P. natalensis is an available option (it is growing in popularity, largely because you can grow it exactly like cubes) I highly recommend it."

"A friend imported Natalensis spores from Africa, and he says hands down his favourites to grow and eat. They have a different vibe, he says."

"Nah I won’t say twice as strong [as Cubensis] although it is a hard hitter once it comes on, uncontrollable euphoric giggles at the most random shit, personally a unique experience that I personally feel is characteristic of this strain."

"Less nauseous [than Cubensis], and more clear. … Head space is clearer, sometimes I feel a little confused on Cubensis, wandering around the house not sure what I was going to do next."

"Natalensis is more crystal clear [than Cubensis], hard to explain."

"Natalensis always has a little sparkle to the trip, can't explain it, but we like them."

"They are more like MDMA and not so confusing for me compared to cubes."

"My new favorite for sure, any body load ya do get from them, is a good one."

"Nats have there own buzz I feel, It's one of my faves. But yes there strong but no body load I find."

"The visuals are better than Cubes. I haven't grown anything except Nats since I had my first experience, and I only plan to grow Nats."

"Honestly, I too, thought people were exaggerating about Nats. Nope, they weren't exaggerating at all. My first experience was 1.25g and was amazing. No body load. No yawning. Amazing visuals."

"This might sound weird, but Cubes FEEL male to me, a little harder edged, a little more in your face and demanding, while this Nat trip felt distinctly female, deep (very deep!) yet oh so soft, nurturing even, and a heck of a lot of FUN."

"I tried out the Natalensis last weekend. 3.18g and holy shit. It was extremely intense and strange. The visuals were more of a light show quality than the normal crawling swirling. Almost like everything was lit by moving neon light."



Commonly reported qualitative differences vs Cubensis:

- Smoother experience with an easier come up
- Less body load and nausea issues
- Cleaner/clearer headspace
- Friendlier and more uplifting and positive headspace, more prone to euphoria
- Distinct/superior visuals
 
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Long time no see. This post made my day. Maybe my year/ I've been away from the community and I've been struggling with using mushrooms as medicine. The body load has been a big part of the problem. No matter how much I need to dose, which I have done for years to treat anxiety and depression. I have a bunch of penis envy, and I was thinking it was the variety that was the problem. I'm not sure. Can't wait to try these.
I'm on page 50 of the 375 page shroomery thread and it's starting to get interesting. Thank you for pulling all of those quotes out for us. I am very excited. I found it when searching "penis envy body load". Perfect timing. Thanks.
 
Thanks for sharing! There are actually some hints about indigenous use of psilocybe mushrooms in South Africa if I remember correctly.

How does the experience compare to Pan cyanescens and also liberty caps?
 
Hi peeps :)

Hey Mister_Niles, I'm glad my post was well-timed. Funny you mention Penis Envy, I recently heard an interesting podcast with Hamilton Morris, where he interviews mycologist Ree Gee who played an important role in developing this strain/cultivar of Cubensis. Intriguingly, he stated "...it’s never been my mushroom of choice; I’ve always eaten [Psilocybe] cyanescens." He said he hasn't ingested it since the 1970's, and later repeated that he much prefers the woodlovers, Cyanescens and Azurescens. This caught my interest - that one of the people who played a key role in developing Penis Envy didn't actually like it very much!

It's worth noting that while Cubensis is certainly an important shamanic mushroom in widespread usage by indigenous groups in Mexico, it doesn’t tend to occupy the highest rung of the ladder of shamanic mushroom preference. Not all Mazatec shamans will use it, including the late Maria Sabina, whose favoured species was P. mexicana. The Mazatec say of this species ‘que suave’ (‘how smooth’). The Zapotec give this mushroom to their children as they view it as the friendliest and most forgiving. In 1988, Cubensis connoisseur Terrence McKenna had an experience with the mushroom so harrowing that he swore off heroic mushroom doses altogether. Psilonauts with extensive experience of growing and sampling the different species commonly hold the view that certain species, including those revered by shamans, surpass Cubensis in experiential qualities, and they will commonly forego Cubensis altogether in favour of more cherished species.

The current prevailing mainstream scientific view is that psilocin and its prodrug psilocybin in the mushrooms are the only psychoactive components, and different species of mushroom will vary only in potency. Any perceived differences between species are considered to be underpinned entirely by set and setting factors, rather than anything intrinsic to the mushroom. I suspect the reality is a little more nuanced and complex than this. While there is certainly a lot of marketing hype BS put out by spore vendors to sell spores regarding purported differences between different Cubensis strains, what I would consider the overall or majority consensus stated by experienced growers and psilonauts - in addition to Psilocybe using indigenous groups - is that there are consistent differences between different species. This view is also shared by ethnobotanist Kathleen Harrison, who has worked extensively with the Mazatec and various Psilocybe species.

I think we've barely scratched the surface when it comes to profiling the chemical constituents of these mushrooms, as evidenced by the recent detection of beta-carboline compounds (admittedly in trace amounts), and the recently discovered presence of various compounds such as baeocystin, norbaeocystin and aeruginascin in the fungi. Psilocybe natalensis has been profiled itself and found to contain antioxidant and anti-inflammatory compounds. One recently published study concluded that the “varied cocktail of tryptamines in wild mushrooms could influence the medicinal effect” and another fresh-off-the press study stated that the “P. cubensis metabolome possibly contains thousands of uncharacterized compounds, at least some of which may be bioactive” and “that our understanding of the chemical diversity of these mushrooms is largely incomplete.

In light of this, it may be a little hasty to dismiss the phenomenology tied to these various species, while leaning completely on the clearly incomplete analytical chemistry evidence at this stage, extrapolating from a limited number of samples. These experienced differences have been reported over a huge range of samples, both domestic and wild. As one psilonaut put it:

I was really amazed how different the trip from each species is after just thinking “it’s all psilocybin”.

Better to not take my, or anyone else's word for it - better to be informed by your own experience here.

Hey dithyramb, I haven't actually sampled Natalensis yet, but am currently growing some and am looking forward to doing so soon. I have grown Pan cyanescens and sampled wild liberty caps and have enjoyed my experiences with both. Pan cyanescens tend to be particularly highly regarded among psilonauts, with it commonly described as being very smooth on the body with zero body load, and a cleaner/clearer headspace compared to Cubensis. From the accounts in the above post, it seems that both Pan cyanescens and Natalensis share the quality of being smoother on the body, having less body load and a cleaner/clearer headspace.

In addition to Pan cyanescens, I've also fruited and sampled P. tampanensis and P. galindoi (according to genetic analyses, both substrain variants of P. mexicana). I've also sampled the woodlovers Ps. cyanescens and P. azurescens, in addition to P. mexicana and P. subtropicalis. I definitely cherish my experience with the 'exotics', but from a growing/fruiting perspective the various Cubensis alternatives tend to have issues...in some cases they have fussier fruiting requirements, are much lower yielding than Cubensis, or have longer fruiting times.

I think Natalensis is a big deal for growers - particularly beginner growers - due to its forgiving and vigorous nature, prolific yields, quick grow time and cherished qualities, and it may be ripe for further cloning/isolation work to dial in specific phenotypes. In this way it is likely to take a variety of future forms, much like Cubensis has. In light of this I feel Natalensis could be the Cubensis of our generation. Definitely a species worthy of more attention, IMO.
 
Yep, and how odd that Maria Sabina said pure psilocybin and the mushrooms are the same... I question if she really said that.

Natalensis really attracts me now. It's probably just my own mind, but I associate the exceptionally primordial nature of psilocybe cubensis consciousness with the primordial roots of the human species in Africa... I guess the stoned ape theory is an archetypal mythology somehow.

I wonder if natalensis is closely related to cubensis as they look so similar.

This mushroom is really onto something.
 
I worked with Natalensis for the last three years and whenever I got the choice between cubes and nats I usually choose Natalensis.
While I always have Cubensis around I only used them twice within these three years and each time I thought "Why haven't I made my tea using Natalensis?". I am a fan :).
 
I worked with Natalensis for the last three years and whenever I got the choice between cubes and nats I usually choose Natalensis.
While I always have Cubensis around I only used them twice within these three years and each time I thought "Why haven't I made my tea using Natalensis?". I can really recommend them :).
 
Hey dithyramb,

Yes the Sabina story is interesting...who knows if something could have been lost in cultural translation? Or she could have been acting politely? That being said, I recently heard that Terrence McKenna appreciated pure synthetic psilocybin, and sampled it following his mega Cubensis freakout. I also know a few people who are definitely mushroom experienced that have been a part of a modern trial where they were administered synthetic psilocybin, and from their accounts it seems that the lab-made stuff is in no way lacking in mystical myco mojo - one of these people considers this experience among their most profound psychedelic experiences to date if I recall. I actually wonder whether P. mexicana is likely closer to the pure psilocybin experience than P. cubensis is (with regard to body load and clean/clear headspace).

And yes was meaning to say, interesting to speculate on the potential indigenous usage of Natalensis in South Africa, where it seems to be fairly abundant and hard to miss. There is so little known really about usage of psychedelics in Africa, particularly ancient usage. But given the time span humans have been there, it does make one wonder how far usage could go back.

Natalensis is indeed closely related to Cubensis. Quoting mycologist Alan Rockefeller, who sequenced its genetics:

"Yes that's correct, it's not a cube. It is more closely related to cubes than any other sequenced species. It has a consistent 6 nucleotide difference with all of the cube sequences.

"Someone sent me a Psilocybe natalensis ITS sequence a few months back, so I had a pretty good idea what P. natalensis was - but it wasn't my sequence so I didn't want to share it. This week I made a Psilocybe natalensis sequence in my lab, which matches the other P. natalensis sequence I have. I've also uploaded it to Genbank, the first sequence of this species there."

I've attached an image that came out of this genetic sequencing work, and this is the record for Natalensis in GenBank.

Hey Fridge, thanks for sharing. Your sentiments definitely echo those of a fair few other psilonauts :)
 

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Thank you so much for the exhaustive reply Bancopuma. And thanks for all of the links that you included.
I am so glad that you brought up P. Mexicana. Many years ago I grew truffles of that variety. I wish I had fruited them. Those experiences are some of the most clear friendly and beautiful experiences I've ever had with a psilocybin containing plant. They were fantastic. Not much of a body load either. I need to try the Mexicana fruits.
I definitely need to try natalensis. I can't wait.

I'm very excited and hopeful for the future of treating my mental and neurological issues. It's been a hard couple of years. I've just been suffering, basically.

When you are deeply depressed and paralyzed by anxiety it's difficult to get yourself to take any psychedelic, no matter how well you know what the effects will be.
I haven't had the wherewithal to maintain an ayahuasca diet. And my mind has been infected with all of the conflicting information about the dangers of plant-based MAOI, which is sort of freezes me in place. I have been experimenting with small sublingual doses of vine only brew and having some success.
The other medicine I have found to be effective for my TBI symptoms is ketamine. Unfortunately for me the clinics are too expensive and I have a difficult time obtaining it. It keeps me from having constant suicidal ideation from my head injury.

Mushrooms really work well if I can manage to take them once a month. These days, I can't though.
I've been telling anyone who will listen that if there were only and infrastructure in this country and I could go take mushrooms at a doctors office of some sort, it would be easy for me. I can keep an appointment even if it's going to be unpleasant. I have a more difficult time keeping an appointment with myself. Even if I know that no matter how much ginger I pre-load on, and if I use a lemon tek, I am still going into an experience where my guts will be roiling, which will lead to a difficult headspace. I'm convinced that that is part of what sometimes causes difficult experiences. After all we have a primordial brain in our gut.

Thanks again for your response. I love discovering that it's "not just me". The whole "a cube is a cube is a cube" thing seems so silly to me. I mean seriously… a lot of the same people who believe that can give you the profiles of 100 different strains of cannabis and talk about how the terpines etc. play a role in the experience, but can't imagine that the same might hold true for mushroom varieties.
Man. You really lit my brain up. Seriously. Thank you.
 
dithyramb said:
Southern Africa is considered to be the cradle of the human species...

Indeed :) and tripping on (any) psychs in the Magaliesberg Mountains (my favorite and one of oldest on the planet @ ~3+ Billion years vs 70-80 Million for Rockies and Himalayas) you definitely get that vibe always - the vastness and agelessness of time.

Makes sense that our shrooms are good haha. Can imagine those early humans pecking around the rocks and falling into caves - just not such a great idea to be out of body around some of our wildlife :)
 
Someone (I forget who sorry!) was just talking to me about this in the Chat room the other day and it peaked my interest, so this post was great to find. Thank you so much for making it informative all in one batch. I'll be sure to go through that Shroomery Thread.

I was an avid cultivator in my earlier days thanks to The Shroomery. I can't count how many jars and tubs I lost to the dreaded Trichoderma, lipstick, and other various molds from an unknown slip up during the 3 month prep phase.

I also stopped eating cubes because I was so tired of the body load that came with it, so I'm really interested in trying these. I much more enjoy the visual hallucinations I can control quite well on mushrooms, without having to focus too much on muscle tension and joint pain that can sometimes be associated with a heavier trip.

After reading from other users that "the mycelium is aggressive, the yield is greater, the potency is stronger" I have no doubt in my mind that it will be THE mushroom to grow from now on. Needing more air would only require a reduction in the amount of polyfil used (if introducing to fruiting conditions in a mono tub that is), so no worries there. Almost sounds too good to be true! But I would except nothing less from a Mushroom. They surprise you left and right.... or in this case, South Africa!

One can only hope that the message gets out on the streets that 3.5 is no longer the recommended stopping gate, especially for new users. I tend to like 2.5g as a perfect cube dose for me, so it sounds like 1.5g of the new guy in town should suffice.

I guess I better get into my signature and update my old Mono Tub Tek! Woo hoo!

Also....

Mister_Niles said:
I'm very excited and hopeful for the future of treating my mental and neurological issues. It's been a hard couple of years. I've just been suffering, basically.

When you are deeply depressed and paralyzed by anxiety it's difficult to get yourself to take any psychedelic, no matter how well you know what the effects will be.

I'm with you. Constant changes at work and financial distress has made it nearly impossible for me to want to take psychedelics. I can get by with DMT as it's short acting, but I'm afraid of an uncomfortable mushroom trip because of some bad anxiety I've had only the last few years. It HAS been getting steadily better each month though. 5 years ago i was taking 2mg of xanax a day, I'm happy to say that I now take 0.25mg maybe once every two weeks if I'm feeling anxious. SSRI's were terrible for me, and I'm glad I took a risk and went with Xanax, which was a personal choice I was ok with and it's a personal choice for every one who may need to make it. If you ever want to pick my brain about anxiety please don't hesitate to PM me as I have been through the ringer and found things that WORK. The most important thing you can do is to be patient with yourself. <3
 
Thank you for this information :thumb_up: very valuable and also I got it in exactly right moment - I was just thinking about restarting my growing hobby and do not want to grow cubes again as I do not like them much.

Spores are already on the way, so hopefully in a few months I will be able to report back on my experience.
 
doubledog said:
Thank you for this information :thumb_up: very valuable and also I got it in exactly right moment - I was just thinking about restarting my growing hobby and do not want to grow cubes again as I do not like them much.

Spores are already on the way, so hopefully in a few months I will be able to report back on my experience.

Please do! I'd say that would be worthy of a bump if this thread gets old.
 
doubledog said:
Thank you for this information :thumb_up: very valuable and also I got it in exactly right moment - I was just thinking about restarting my growing hobby and do not want to grow cubes again as I do not like them much.

Spores are already on the way, so hopefully in a few months I will be able to report back on my experience.

Good stuff doubledog, and you're welcome - this species also reignited my myco growing hobby...I'm going to transfer some Natalensis LC onto grain today so I will also report back :thumb_up:
 
I am working on a Natalensis culture. Ideally what I want is good potency, no overlay and a dense pinset. I got potent fruits and no overlay so far. The pinset isn't very dense, but that's ok. It's so much fun watching the mycelium growing up the walls. It's so aggressive!
These are still small, but they still have plenty of growing to do. Note the difference in terms of vail compared to cubensis.
 

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Looking good, Fridge!

Is this from multi-spore? Dense pinset is more easily achieved with cloning. Also, IME the pics are showing signs of high CO2/not enough FAE - but then again, I've never grown Natalensis so they may just be different.

More pictures please; it's enjoyable to watch them grow!
 
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