Im not quite sure I follow, a debt to hyperspace? Is there a currency or entrance to be paid? Or are you referring to karma?
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New member, lost all CEV OEV, trying to recover, here's what I tried so far:
- Thread starter Toadster
- Start date
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overthinking the unthinkable
It's just my way of seeing it. The debt can be simply understanding what I have been shown. Or perhaps making the changes the experiences have suggested.
I feel like a child, being taught a simple lesson. My playful, rebellious spirit ignores or doesnt even understand the advice and I keep playing in the same way.
At some point the parent stops giving advice until I get the message or learn for myself via mishap. But they also stop buying me ice cream.
No more advice. No more rewards. You owe the parent the debt of understanding before normal service continues.
What a beautiful thought process.
My trips haven’t shown me spirits or insights of significance meaning. They where colorful caleidoscopic worlds often changing and inter-spinning. No spirrits or entity’s besides an occasional middle finger.
There must be some mechanism behind this. Maybe it effects a subset of people. In like 17-18 years of working with DMT I have not experienced this lock out effect.
On occasion sure, but it was always corrected or w/e by just trying again in a few days.
It’s the opposite for me. If it’s not right at the moment and I go anyway I usually just get my ass handed to me.
On occasion sure, but it was always corrected or w/e by just trying again in a few days.
It’s the opposite for me. If it’s not right at the moment and I go anyway I usually just get my ass handed to me.
That's generally how I started my journeys, 1 or 2 lower dosages to asses if it feels right and everything works properly.
The biggest difference and maybe my worst mistake in this journey is assuming I needed more and more and bigger dosages to get anywhere, and yet still not render any visuals.
I honestly have thought that I've blown a fuse or two, and now reading up on 5HT receptors and over-stimulation the easiest conclusion is that I'm an idiot that was just to eager, to little informed, impatient, and just messes up by trying way to often with way to much spice.
Often when trying out something new I want to benchmark it against my known ROA, so, when trying the Hex I had 2 mods with 20 mg on the e-mesh and a dual coil with a 1:4 ready as well. After being disappointed with the 2x a 20mg on the Hex I took the e-mesh, and when the first hit didn't yield effects either I took the second, and all this was in less then 5 minutes.. The dual coil eventually 'handed my ass' to me in a very unpleasant way, and yet..... still.. no... visuals...
IceKoldpp
Established member
it's been mentioned a few times from the responses i've read, but more in passing than as an explanation..
sounds like lockout to me.
i have recent experience w/ it myself. after roughly 7-8 months of regular use (a single dose of anywhere between 20-45mg in the evening roughly 5x a week), 5 or 6 of those months being what many consider "the honeymoon" phase where every trip is all bliss and euphoria filled with entity encounters and playful mischief carried out by little jesters and such. then a very sudden and scary hyperslap experience which triggered a few months of less colorful and "happy" type experiences (still at roughly the same use rate of ab 5x a week). not bad or scary necessarily. just more neutral in tone and overall vibe i guess. less colorful, less blissful DMT nirvana.. this was being brought on by just my general pre-flight fears and anxiety being much more intense and insistent since my hyperslap, thus tinting the experiences. at least that's the conclusion i came to.
then suddenly ab 3 weeks ago i just stopped being let in. at any dose. (well any dose between 10-45mg at least as that's the width of my comfort zone with DMT). no visuals, no waiting room, no oev or cev except the occasional big red X or a few times when i closed my eyes there was yellow caution tape that read "keep out".
after 3-4 days of this i figured this must be the dreaded "lockout" and there's no need wasting anymore of my latest extractions precious yield on forcing something that clearly wasn't in my control to force entry. i put my little DMT kit away and went ab life. then last week some swell was coming in so i went on a nice little trip with my family down to the coast that i grew up on, had a few of the best surfs i've had in the last 5 years over the four days we were down there. came home feeling really refreshed and happy on saturday. then sunday i felt the spice calling me. i figured it wouldn't hurt to test whether my ticket to hyperspace had been renewed so late sunday evening i set up my space and loaded 30mg in the gvg and BINGO BANGO, entry f**kin' granted! a breakthrough the likes of which i hadn't had since the honeymooniest period of my "honeymoon" period with DMT. like, full-on love and glory from which, when i returned to reality i was weeping like a baby..
the crying from sheer overwhelming love and appreciation and the deepest feelings of gratitude for being seen has only happened maybe 3 times in all my travels with spice so far. it was glorious.
then last night i tried to go back and nothing... well not completely nothing. i did have very clear cev's of a line of ppl going through a door to a party but i was having this communication as i watched them going in very gently and kindof lovingly telling me "you're welcome here and we love you but not tonight". it was odd. but i wasn't sad or let down or anything at all. i was totally fine with it. i just accepted that tonight i'm not getting into the party. but that doesn't mean i'm exiled. i'll just wait for the call now i guess instead of having a schedule with my DMT like i have for these past months.
i think i was just using it too much and DMT is teaching me that it's more of a "don't call us, we'll call you" kindof thing. at least after a certain point. maybe it's the same thing for you? who knows man.. DMT is weird as HECK. good news though is that as far as i've read, lockout usually isn't permanent. it's seems to be a forced cooldown period enforced by hyperspace when our simple little habit loving monkey brains keep hitting the button that gives us the sugar cube or whateverthafuq metaphor you like for use turning into abuse...
sounds like lockout to me.
i have recent experience w/ it myself. after roughly 7-8 months of regular use (a single dose of anywhere between 20-45mg in the evening roughly 5x a week), 5 or 6 of those months being what many consider "the honeymoon" phase where every trip is all bliss and euphoria filled with entity encounters and playful mischief carried out by little jesters and such. then a very sudden and scary hyperslap experience which triggered a few months of less colorful and "happy" type experiences (still at roughly the same use rate of ab 5x a week). not bad or scary necessarily. just more neutral in tone and overall vibe i guess. less colorful, less blissful DMT nirvana.. this was being brought on by just my general pre-flight fears and anxiety being much more intense and insistent since my hyperslap, thus tinting the experiences. at least that's the conclusion i came to.
then suddenly ab 3 weeks ago i just stopped being let in. at any dose. (well any dose between 10-45mg at least as that's the width of my comfort zone with DMT). no visuals, no waiting room, no oev or cev except the occasional big red X or a few times when i closed my eyes there was yellow caution tape that read "keep out".
after 3-4 days of this i figured this must be the dreaded "lockout" and there's no need wasting anymore of my latest extractions precious yield on forcing something that clearly wasn't in my control to force entry. i put my little DMT kit away and went ab life. then last week some swell was coming in so i went on a nice little trip with my family down to the coast that i grew up on, had a few of the best surfs i've had in the last 5 years over the four days we were down there. came home feeling really refreshed and happy on saturday. then sunday i felt the spice calling me. i figured it wouldn't hurt to test whether my ticket to hyperspace had been renewed so late sunday evening i set up my space and loaded 30mg in the gvg and BINGO BANGO, entry f**kin' granted! a breakthrough the likes of which i hadn't had since the honeymooniest period of my "honeymoon" period with DMT. like, full-on love and glory from which, when i returned to reality i was weeping like a baby..
the crying from sheer overwhelming love and appreciation and the deepest feelings of gratitude for being seen has only happened maybe 3 times in all my travels with spice so far. it was glorious.
then last night i tried to go back and nothing... well not completely nothing. i did have very clear cev's of a line of ppl going through a door to a party but i was having this communication as i watched them going in very gently and kindof lovingly telling me "you're welcome here and we love you but not tonight". it was odd. but i wasn't sad or let down or anything at all. i was totally fine with it. i just accepted that tonight i'm not getting into the party. but that doesn't mean i'm exiled. i'll just wait for the call now i guess instead of having a schedule with my DMT like i have for these past months.
i think i was just using it too much and DMT is teaching me that it's more of a "don't call us, we'll call you" kindof thing. at least after a certain point. maybe it's the same thing for you? who knows man.. DMT is weird as HECK. good news though is that as far as i've read, lockout usually isn't permanent. it's seems to be a forced cooldown period enforced by hyperspace when our simple little habit loving monkey brains keep hitting the button that gives us the sugar cube or whateverthafuq metaphor you like for use turning into abuse...
Tumupasa
Established member
Great story IceKoldpp! I think it's a give and take relation. There is something / someone, generously giving great insights, great healing, and we, humans, most of the time, we don't know how to receive. We find a lot of reason for exploring, but most of the time, we want just recreative experiences, and I'm not judging anybody, since I recognize it myself.
This is sacred, it allows us to learn and heal, but as I mentioned earlier, it also wants us to bring something, commitment maybe...
So, yes, I think it is key to let things settle, spend some days, weeks or months to integrate things, then I think we'll be welcome again, gladly.
Tumupasa
Established member
Once, I was participating to a ceremony hosted by a shaman I have very good relations with.
It was a regular ceremony, having a peak at around 1 hour after drinking, and then going down 2 or 3 hours after... but this night I wanted more, and this idea was making loops in my mind all along... so at some point I asked him if he would give me more.
He took some few seconds to answer and said "no, enough of the spoiled child!'.
Literally it broke my heart, but this has been the most valuable lesson I've had in all my life... which I interpret like this: You can't always have it all when you want. Now is time to get back to earth and be grounded because we need you here.
A nugget in my life
It was a regular ceremony, having a peak at around 1 hour after drinking, and then going down 2 or 3 hours after... but this night I wanted more, and this idea was making loops in my mind all along... so at some point I asked him if he would give me more.
He took some few seconds to answer and said "no, enough of the spoiled child!'.
Literally it broke my heart, but this has been the most valuable lesson I've had in all my life... which I interpret like this: You can't always have it all when you want. Now is time to get back to earth and be grounded because we need you here.
A nugget in my life
I love your down-to-earth explanation, sometimes I might just overthink situations whilst the answer is right in front of me all the time.
My very sweet honeymoon phase, you're right, I just kept chasing it.
Started with a Yocan Orbit, Zeus X, followed by a Kylin mini, 3-5x a week.. kept upping the dose.. kept buying whatever popped up to be the new sweet thing because well, that's just easier than accepting a internet myth. 18 months later I have 2 boxes filled with RTA's, RDA's, Convection Atomizers, wires, cotton, mods, and whatever you could read was the hottest item and yet no results..
Some experiences you can't buy.
The funny thing is I had never heard of the lock-out theory ever before the Danny Jones podcast, after which a flood of posts appeared on the reddits all claiming to be locked out. It felt like a bit of a vague hard to prove claim since the only evidence is 'spontaneous' anonymous posts on a hard to be found 'serious credible information' platform.
That said, my results of getting anywhere with the molecule at the moment are futile, so maybe it isn't as black and white as I think it is and I might have just out locked myself out and need to wait for the spirits to favour my journey again. That, or I overstimulated my 5HT2a receptors by just keep nuking them with to much spice.
Either truth is valid, but it does mean I have to take a break for now.
IceKoldpp
Established member
i can relate dude. i'm an overthinker myself. with a tendancy to look right past the obvious. especially when it seems implausible (like lockout can def seem)
man.. i've been trying to build an emesh for 8 mos! i can never find the rda's in stock anywhere. or there's some other part that i can't source at the time. its always something. eventually i ended up just settling on the vaporgenie gvg bc of the unavailability of parts. maybe bc i'm in the us? not totally sure.. sounds like you don't have that problem though
do you own a vape supply or something??yea, i saw the same flood of posts as well. i've spent most of my DMT related web time here on the nexus though and had seen lots of mentions about it prior. i began to just expect that i would probably end up dealing with it eventually bc lots of long term users say they've experienced it at some point or the other. seems to almost be an inevitability with long term use. kindof like the infamous "hyperslap". if you partake over a long term your gonna have a bad one at some point. just numbers.
indeed
both are surely valid. either way though, the only fix is time. it hopefully won't be long. if your experience goes anything like mine though, you'll know when you've been restored. i very clearly felt the pull. and it was not just my desire pulling me back to try again. it was the call... wooOOooOOooOOoo but yea. you'll know. godspeed!
IceKoldpp
Established member
thank you! yes i fully agree. it's like with all things. there are scales that need to be balanced and they can only go out of balance for so long before the universe intervenes to restore that balance. and we just, well.. humans gonna human i guess lol
man.. i've been trying to build an emesh for 8 mos! i can never find the rda's in stock anywhere. or there's some other part that i can't source at the time. its always something. eventually i ended up just settling on the vaporgenie gvg bc of the unavailability of parts. maybe bc i'm in the us? not totally sure.. sounds like you don't have that problem though
lol.. No, I don't own a vapeshop, I did own some watersports-retail businesses and some call-centers way back, now I'm in real estate and restaurant business , and some day trading to keep me busy. I've ordered mostly trough a US well known vape-shop, or the big ali-chinesium-nockoff-site. The meshpro nock-offs work really well, I've got 5 of 'm just to have back2back sessions and not have issues with reloading. Love the e-mesh! Also why I bought dry-herb vaporizer with dosing capsules, but that didn't work out really well yet.
Facts! I'll wait until my ass is in the right position again after it being roughly handed to me, time for a break! Until than, reading up on this lovely molecule.
Looking forward to that day in hyperspace that all visuals have been restored.indeed
but yea. you'll know. godspeed!
Moral of the story is…surfing heals! Don’t tell anyone.
IceKoldpp
Established member
IceKoldpp
Established member
well welcome to the nexus! great community here (especially if you're coming from reddit lol).
if your reading list isn't full yet i just finished andrew gallimore's new book "death by astonishment" and it was a very good read. pretty much the whole history of DMT and how it made it's way to the west. and also lots of in depth discussion/explaination of his theories on DMT as a technology rather than a drug. some cool stories from the strassman DMT studies back in the 90's as well. top of my list now for books focused on DMT. right behind "the spirit molecule" ofcourse.
we sometimes refer to this as "lock out", think of it as the dmt essentially refusing to open the gates for you. you want into the party and it's just behind the door saying "it's time for you to go home" kind of like a good bar tender cutting you off when you're starting to behave a bit sloppy.
we're all different in biochemistry and metabolism so I can't definitively say what will help you keep the ball rolling besides taking a considerable break. I see you say you've had a few weeks and it seems like it still isn't working so unfortunately the break might need to be even longer than that.
what I would suggest is :
make sure you regulate your sleep
continue to eat healthy
omit the alcohol (for any number of reasons) I find that alcohol in any increment seems to really stifle blast off
and take care of yourself in general.
you've probably created a tolerance to the spice. sure it burns off quick but just because you chemically SHOULD feel it doesn't mean your brain is willing to comply.
some nexians really don't like me passing this quote along but "get the message, hang up the phone".
I wouldn't worry though. I feel like lockout is pretty natural in the grand scope of things for people who use tryptamines regularly. you could try psilocybin and see if that gives you something to work with but again I'd highly suggest just giving your self time to reset for a bit .
best of luck friend.
we're all different in biochemistry and metabolism so I can't definitively say what will help you keep the ball rolling besides taking a considerable break. I see you say you've had a few weeks and it seems like it still isn't working so unfortunately the break might need to be even longer than that.
what I would suggest is :
make sure you regulate your sleep
continue to eat healthy
omit the alcohol (for any number of reasons) I find that alcohol in any increment seems to really stifle blast off
and take care of yourself in general.
you've probably created a tolerance to the spice. sure it burns off quick but just because you chemically SHOULD feel it doesn't mean your brain is willing to comply.
some nexians really don't like me passing this quote along but "get the message, hang up the phone".
I wouldn't worry though. I feel like lockout is pretty natural in the grand scope of things for people who use tryptamines regularly. you could try psilocybin and see if that gives you something to work with but again I'd highly suggest just giving your self time to reset for a bit .
best of luck friend.
Kitesurf, Kitefoil, Windsurf, Wingfoil, SUP, bike, xfit, trip, dmt(-x?!) and than still find time to do some work! haha
But, you're right, surfing heals! Playing with the wind and water always hits my happy sweet spot!
I'm 3/4 in the book, and currently watching a YT interview with Jesse Michels and Andrew doing some work.
Although the Forum feels like a throwback to the 90's compared to the hyper active discords and reddits, the information and form of communication here suits me much better.
I've completely stopped contributing to a certain discord server, where currently the only discourse is more Fauci science and ass kissing than actual constructional discourse.
Reddit doesn't deserve my time either.
Much appreciated!
I think my sleep is pretty well on or above par, get up with the Sun and go down with the Sun. (19:30 - 05:00)
X-fit or work-out almost daily, if not I'm on the water surf/sail/kite/foil/row/etc.
My alcohol consumption is minor, and IF i drink it's in the weekend, and limited to 1-2 drinks.
I don't consume processed foods, bread/rice/pasta's, or anything that contains soy. My diet is predominantly clean protein, fresh fish, eggs, meat, and some veggy's if they're available. I may be mid 40's, but out perform the fast majority of the gen Z's
So just found out Andrew Gallimore is opening a DMTx research center on a nearby island..
fun times ahead!
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Kiting and winging look pretty fun. Never tried anything wind related other than lots of downwind SUP runs. I’ve based my life around surfing and live strategically near my favourite right hand reef point.. mostly blocked from the south swells of summer so everyone gets thirsty this time of year.
Watching guys just do laps off the point in garbage wind swell makes it look pretty appealing.
Totally off topic.
Watching guys just do laps off the point in garbage wind swell makes it look pretty appealing.
Totally off topic.