Potentially deadly! Nightshades

[dithyramb]

Dear nexians, though nowhere near as intense as my "phalaris project" I have been on a journey with some nightshades and I feel the need to share about it. I only have experience with local datura and Mandrake, and I also am interested in meeting the local henbane which I see from time to time. These plants are ascribed powerful healing properties which interest me. I am mostly interested in Mandrake which I feel is safer and saner than datura.

Of course, the danger of death or going permanently insane is great with these plants, and I don't recommend anybody to experiment with them. Besides, the experience they give in safe doses is nothing like a psychedelic trip, probably subtle and boring for most people. With higher doses, aside from the very high risk of death or permanent damage, even if you are lucky enough to get to the other side alive and unscarred, the physical aspects are extremely unpleasant - completely dry mouth and nose, inability to shit, piss, or perspire, total loss of muscle control, involuntary twitching, and unconsciousness... So just read as if you are reading a story and don't think about trying what I did!

A few years back I tried dieting Datura metel leaves, and once also drank a flower tea. I stopped when I noticed that my vision started getting blurry. It is said that the eyesight loss can be permanent with these plants... The Datura metel spirit felt cold and "witchy" to me, a consciousness of acquiring power over others in contrast to the love and unity consciousness I get with rue. I did not like that and lost interest in this plant. I also experienced the ability to read people's intentions, how their words did not match their inner dynamics... I was not interested in that...

Another time I ate 8 Datura stamonium seeds. It felt very euphoric/antidepressant and drunken. Flight felt imminent. I also did not try this again because I did not feel the calling.

But with Mandrake, I felt a call even before experiencing it, and after experiencing I established a trust relationship. So I ingested it numerous times and twice I crossed the line to experience very unpleasant side effects, and one time it actually felt life threatening.

The Mandrake spirit is not an egoic consciousness like Datura, and it brings a lot of love. Like deep pure love. It feels like a connective doorway to Spirit and has a very noticable guiding wise voice.

Very interestingly, I did not get side effects from eating fresh root at a dose which had me crying of contact with a deep emotional wound and dancing uncontrollably. It also was not sedative, but rather stimulating. All my other experiences were with dried root and all were sedative and at least had a hint of side effects (dry mouth) even with the tiniest dose.

Once I combined it with rue, hoping that the ache inhibition of rue would cancel out the side effects of Mandrake. I was completely wrong and it potentiated the side effects, leading to my most dangerous experience with Mandrake, in which I was completely immobilized and unconscious, with a racing heart for a few hours. Before the side effects kicked in, I had the most realistic visions I ever experienced.

I've also had interesting experiences with leaves, never had side effects, and again it was stimulating if fresh and sedative if dried. Profound prophetic dreams...

I think next time I try it, I will try a cold soak of the fresh root and see if my hypothesis on fresh vs dry material holds. In contrast to my rue experiences, my average tropane plant experience frequency has been like once/twice a year so far. Some sources do warn of stupification from long term use and it could or could not be true in all cases.

Mandrake is seen as a cure all, and extremely is sacred in the middle east. It is not seen as dark at all, to the contrary it is seen divine and godly.

I am pretty certain there are components other than the tropane alkaloids in the plant which builds it's characteristic effects.

 

[ommani]

Fascinating... mandrake does seem less threatening than other tropane containing plants... I wonder what a healing and sustainable approach to working with mandrake would look like...

 

[Jees]

Very interesting endeavors, thanks.

Seems putting some datura leaf(s) under the pillow or just being present in the sleeping room, already has effects, yet I've never come to try it out.

 

[dithyramb]

I've been on the road for some time and strangely noticing Datura stramonium plants in so many cities that I pass by. Felt like collecting some seeds from one of them ...

I normally live by a certain diet and I was semi forced to go astray during this travel; I must have eaten more cheese and red meat in a few days than I have in many years. Today after eating some fried food and heavy meat, I had a very strong feeling of poisoning and had a long, thorough episode of purging from both ends. The food was not spoiled as it was shared by others and they were all fine.

The night before I had tried eating 1 Datura stramonium seed to feel the spirit and it's effects on dreams. I had not noticed anything unusual at night, keeping in mind that I was quite desensitized compared to usual because of life circumstances. I have a hunch that that single seed triggered this deep purging process. It was of a kind that I have not even experienced a handful of times before. After the purging was done, which took a few hours, I felt light and healthy again ... No more bending diet rules for me...

My current understanding is that tropanes can act as very strong purgatives, if not overdosed in which case they block all liquid secretions. Though scopolamine is used against nausea and many people seem to use Datura seeds for the (imo very trivial) use of preventing nausea in psychedelic experiences. I don't know how to reconcile those.

 

[donfoolio]

I love these plants somehow. When I was younger I had some incredible experiences with them and since that, we are allies.

It could be mortal, but they pay a high rewarding price for their operations. I never felt alive like after one session with toé. Nothing you could recolland, but something fucking real aand lovely, if you have these sensitive feeling, you need, to approach these plants.

Same feeling as you about mandrake. I start yo growing them professionally, in Europe, and I think this is a kind of under estimated plant. But listen only to your heart and every bit of piece you can get from a "shaman", versatile with these plants.

They are beautiful - but it's the last known of sorcerer's secrets: you can not talk about them, you can not praying dithryambs about them, you have to get familiar with them - by your own.

 

[dithyramb]

Thanks for the replies, ommani, Jees, donfoolio.

"
I wonder what a healing and sustainable approach to working with mandrake would look like..."

I guess even if there is such a way, the etiquette would be to tell people there is no safe way, period. These plants might always have to be taboo in the wider public.

 

[dithyramb]

We moved to a new area with a very rich flora and there are a lot of Datura stramoniums around...

Somehow my prejudice against Datura is softening, especially after reading that stramonium is different than metel partly due to the difference between hyoscyamine and scopolamine... I tried eating 3 seeds of stramonium recently to get possible support for the stressful times I am going through. It really did help. I felt relaxed and rejuvenated. Once again, it's a very rare thing to do for me; the overall energy it imparts even if it doesn't give side effects is suspect to me. But it's an exciting discovery nevertheless.

 

[dithyramb]

I would like to ask about Mandrake fruit and seeds. (I don't feel very good about harvesting roots)

According to sources, the fruit is mildly psychoactive but there is absolutely no info whatsoever on seeds. Could that be because seeds are not very active? I tried seeds from an unripe fruit, up to 26 of them and felt nothing significant... I tried dried flowers once and it felt much more desirable than leaves. Highly energizing and euphoric... I would expect the alkaloid percentage of seeds to be higher than flowers.

It's interesting to read about Mandrake being used in an ancient civilization in the land I live. Seeds were found along with a mortar and pestle so it is more likely that the seeds were used than the seeds just being remnants of fruit.

https://www.academia.edu/download/54860519/Tip_Tarihi_Kongresi.pdf

It's most likely that the fruit needs to mature for the seeds to develop full spirit. Is there anybody out there who has experience with Mandrake fruit or seeds and would like to write about their experiences?

 

[donfoolio]

The fruit ist generally considered edible, so maybe the same is true of seeds. Whereas some seeds of solanacae like datura are highly psychoactive, others like tomatoes or eggplants are perfectly edible.

 

[dithyramb]

One would expect concentrated alkaloids in the seeds of a plant... I will have to experiment further to clarify.

Recently I tried drinking a 2 minute cold soak single stramonium flower with rue. Now I can understand why brugmansia is sometimes used as the only admixture plant to Ayahuasca in some indigenous rituals. The power is sublime. İnner clarity, connection, full on visionariness... Stramonium flowers are small. What power that is... I can't imagine trying a regular tea of it. Felt very celestial and expansive. Mandrake is the more grounded earthly nightshade in comparison. Luckily I had no side effects. Once again, not something to do frequently.

 

[doubledog]

Long time ago, I had some experiences with orally consumed Datura Stramonium, all parts of plant: roots, stems, leaves and also seeds from young plants (basically just small seedling), also leaves and seeds from mature ones. Once I ate a small piece of Atropa Belladona root.

My experience is that with these plants, proper dosage is extremely crucial, mainly because its potency. Just a few seeds, less than 1/3 of big leaf or really small piece of root is medium or quite strong dose. A little bit more and you enter Dream World of Tropanes and your zombiefication starts.

You can gain some special "black magic" abilities, but it will cost you something. There are some much more beneficial plants.

 

[dragonrider]

Long time ago, I had some experiences with orally consumed Datura Stramonium, all parts of plant: roots, stems, leaves and also seeds from young plants (basically just small seedling), also leaves and seeds from mature ones. Once I ate a small piece of Atropa Belladona root.

My experience is that with these plants, proper dosage is extremely crucial, mainly because its potency. Just a few seeds, less than 1/3 of big leaf or really small piece of root is medium or quite strong dose. A little bit more and you enter Dream World of Tropanes and your zombiefication starts.

You can gain some special "black magic" abilities, but it will cost you something. There are some much more beneficial plants.

You're right.

I would say that the main problem is though, that the alkaloïd content of these plants cán vary quite a bit. The time of year when parts of these plants are being harvested, wheatherconditions, even time of day...they all affect the strength of these plants. So even the same plant can be much stronger than you expect.

Then another major factor is storage. They very quickly lose their potency when not properly stored, wich can give inexperienced users the impression of them being a lot weaker than they actually are, leading to overdosing when using fresh material.

Then, the way of using them is also realy a huge factor to think about. There are many possible ways of using these plants, and some methods are an awfull lot more effective than others, so if there is a method that you consider safe, you'll have to very exactly follow that same procedure every single time because deviating can make a lot of difference.

A very important thing to consider is, that with many psycho-active substances, slightly overdosing will maybe lead to a difficult experience. However, with nightshades the outcome of slightly overdoing it can be catastrophic.

I speak from experience. I've lost a very dear friend to these plants. Something that happened many years ago, but that still haunts me sometimes. It is something i'll never be able to forget.

 

[ommani]

Here’s an interesting video I found about the topic of Mandrake…

 

[dithyramb]

Thanks for that, ommani!

It's an unbelievably dry fall season here and the mandrakes have still not grown shoots... I have been developing my relationship with stramonium in the meantime. The process has been magical beyond words. I have developed a trust and feel very allied. I have also done a lot of research on Daturas. İt seems like each species is unique and should be treated as a different entheogen. Stramonium is not sedative for me at all, but energizing to the contrary. Also very connected to the outer world and very social, similar to cacti. What is popularly talked about as a "crazy" "devil's plant" actually has been bringing me to sanity in some ways more powerfully than other entheogenic allies. Also very love inducing and aphrodisiac. Peaceful. Stern teachings. Goes very well with rue.

Approached with utmost respect and caution.

 

[dithyramb]

I have to add... I noticed an aspect of datura s. that makes it prone to abuse, i.e. it can become addictive. This aspect seems most felt with seeds. And apparently there are recorded cases of datura addiction in India. Datura is tricky in many ways, it simply cannot get out of a more taboo status. If approached as a high it becomes among the most dangerous of drugs.

In a nutshell, what I appreciated in D. s. have been being provided novel perspectives on my healing processes when flowers were mixed with rue. Also a novel connection to spirit and plant spirits I felt. Finally, the unique and powerful euphoria which seem to erase all my ruminations, anxieties, worries and make me focus on the simple constructive work I have in front of me has been priceless. It's a practical plant similar to cacti.

 

[murklan]

I have to add... I noticed an aspect of datura s. that makes it prone to abuse, i.e. it can become addictive. This aspect seems most felt with seeds. And apparently there are recorded cases of datura addiction in India. Datura is tricky in many ways, it simply cannot get out of a more taboo status. If approached as a high it becomes among the most dangerous of drugs.

In a nutshell, what I appreciated in D. s. have been being provided novel perspectives on my healing processes when flowers were mixed with rue. Also a novel connection to spirit and plant spirits I felt. Finally, the unique and powerful euphoria which seem to erase all my ruminations, anxieties, worries and make me focus on the simple constructive work I have in front of me has been priceless. It's a practical plant similar to cacti.

I've been curious if Daturas a long time. Ordered seeds as a teenager and liked the plant, but did not ingest it in any way (other then the sweet 'intoxicating' flower smell). I've picked seeds and brought home when in warmer lands. But right now I'm only growing Datura ceratocaula in our greenhouse. It's actually self seeding and I'm always amazed by both the spiraling flower and it's smell in the night. Forbidden pleasures in the dark paradise.

How do you take the flowers and rue? And have you any recommendations how to start a relationship with this plant family? I'm quite familiar with rue (but not as much as you).

 

[dithyramb]

Hey murklan. First of all I would like to repeat that every datura species is different. I don't know anything about ceratocaula and it might not be similar to stramonium.

When the flowers are in their potent state, just a short cold soak feels very magical, but so far it seems they are highly variable in potency and the full moon is likely to be their most potent time.

I just drink the flower infusion 20 minutes after rue, as I drink DMT plants. For me the experience becomes quite full in this way and I don't feel a need to add a DMT plant on top of it. Once I did and the depth and visionariness was really startling.

 

[murklan]

Hey murklan. First of all I would like to repeat that every datura species is different. I don't know anything about ceratocaula and it might not be similar to stramonium.

When the flowers are in their potent state, just a short cold soak feels very magical, but so far it seems they are highly variable in potency and the full moon is likely to be their most potent time.

I just drink the flower infusion 20 minutes after rue, as I drink DMT plants. For me the experience becomes quite full in this way and I don't feel a need to add a DMT plant on top of it. Once I did and the depth and visionariness was really startling.

Sounds like a great way to start. But that will have to wait anther 9-10 months or so, util the ceratocaula flowers again. Thank you for the idea with rue.
But yes, I'll go slowly not knowing ceratocaula.

I also found this:

"Thirty-six alkaloids were identified in the organs ofDatura ceratocaulaby GC/MS. Thirty-three of them have not been previously reported for the species. Furthermore, a new tropaneester was tentatively identified as 3-(3´-formyloxytropoyloxy)tropane on basis of its massspectral fragmentation. Hyoscyamine was the main alkaloid in the plant organs"
Alkaloids ofDatura ceratocaulaStrahil BerkovDepartment of Applied Botany, Institute of Botany, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences.

 

[Soloist]

I’m drawn to Datura inoxia myself. I grew a few this year, along with some metel. Only slightly worked with it. My goal is to combine it with tobacco and cannabis along with a few other herbs, in a smoked roa.
Going to be growing more this spring along with some tobacco species and D. Wrightii

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I chucked a fair few datura seeds around my property a while back and last year thought one had sprouted by a nearby lamppost.

Turns out it was a Physalis - still a nightshade but ever so slightly weird that it should choose to do that :lol: I didn't really fancy trying to use a plant that gets soaked in dog urine anyhow