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Potentially deadly! Nightshades

WARNING: POTENTIALLY DEADLY!
Migrated topic.
downwardsfromzero said:
I chucked a fair few datura seeds around my property a while back and last year thought one had sprouted by a nearby lamppost.

Turns out it was a Physalis - still a nightshade but ever so slightly weird that it should choose to do that :lol: I didn't really fancy trying to use a plant that gets soaked in dog urine anyhow :p
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haha yeaaaahhh that's a pass for me too.
 
Thanks for sharing. Sounds classic.

I've been approaching datura medicinally. A few seeds - 2 and up to 5 6, a few times 8 (on the higher end it starts feeling like an experience, an "orgasmic" euphoria, and at 8 seeds I started feeling my stomach feeling subtly blocked, so it was the anticholinergic side effects threshold for me). Sounds like the opposite of what the tropanes classically do but they give me clarity, focus, pain killing, a sense of well being, and energy. Very good for a variety of neurological conditions. And I intuited combining it with mistletoe which has a similar type of supportive action. When I tried it this combo really felt like it could conquer any depression or mania or pain or sense of malaise in general. The flowers of datura feel much more deliriant, a feeling like you're losing it even with the smallest dose. I am sure seeds can also cause disorientation at higher doses but to me it seems its not just a matter of dose, that there is qualitative difference between the seeds and flowers of datura stramonium.
 
dithyramb said:
Thanks for sharing. Sounds classic.

I've been approaching datura medicinally. A few seeds - 2 and up to 5 6, a few times 8 (on the higher end it starts feeling like an experience, an "orgasmic" euphoria, and at 8 seeds I started feeling my stomach feeling subtly blocked, so it was the anticholinergic side effects threshold for me). Sounds like the opposite of what the tropanes classically do but they give me clarity, focus, pain killing, a sense of well being, and energy. Very good for a variety of neurological conditions. And I intuited combining it with mistletoe which has a similar type of supportive action. When I tried it this combo really felt like it could conquer any depression or mania or pain or sense of malaise in general. The flowers of datura feel much more deliriant, a feeling like you're losing it even with the smallest dose. I am sure seeds can also cause disorientation at higher doses but to me it seems its not just a matter of dose, that there is qualitative difference between the seeds and flowers of datura stramonium.
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What species have you been using the seeds of? I’ve used up to three inoxia seeds a few times with no real noticeable effects. Perhaps some slight, fleeting flashes of back in my periphery and slight shift of consciousness. Can’t say for sure if it was placebo though.
 
Stramonium (Check the last words in your quote). I don't know how different innoxia is, but with stramonium, I can see how feeling 3 seeds could be difficult. I came across a source that wrote 20-30 seeds is one ceremonial dose for a certain native American tribe. I have no intention to go that high as of now. It is dangerous.
 
I did notice that, though I’m not here here to make assumptions.

My main goal with such a small dosage was as an oneirogen.

The short in the difference is alkaloid profile. It’s been a while since I’ve done the research and I can’t seem to find the exact site to cite, but they have opposing profiles.
One is higher in scopolamine and the other higher in hyoscamine.
Whatever the ratios are, I’ve read stramonium has more of a stimulant effect and inoxia more of an euphoric effect.
Seems to line up with the effects you’ve described.

Seems native vs. non native populations can vary greatly as well.

I’ll leave these in case you would like to go down the rabbit hole:


 
Mandrake leaves for me is an oneirogen. It's very different from D. stramonium seeds which actually prevent sleep for me. Mandrake root is also stimulating for me btw. I am less experienced with it but hopefully that will change in the coming months.
 
Mandrakes are such lovely plants but it is true that afar from their cultural background, they aren't quite well investigated.
Even in Rätschs enzyclopedia of psychoactive plants, there aren't real evidence based definitions of its effects.

I am actually trying to improve my gardening skills with this plant and sowed about 150ies autumnalis and officinarum. Germed really well but now the seedlings need to go through the rough winterseason with less daylight.

I hope to have a nice little collection by spring.
 
Yes, there is currently so little research and information on the nightshades, and Mandrake is repeatedly said to be the most significant magical plant in European history, even considered the medicine for everything by some cultures. It's really ironic. Must have some reasons, a big distancing from these plants due to extreme demonization surely played a part. And now human culture has changed and most people open to trying psychoactive plants are only satisfied with "classical psychedelic" effects. My guess is that a lot of the profound healing effects attributed to classical psychedelics are there with the nightshades, perhaps very powerfully. Just need to be worked with safely.
 
FYI: In case you haven't seen it, D. Stramonium has been in the news recently here in Australia with some accidental poisonings.

One of our local Spinach growers has been harvesting young jimsonweed leaves with their baby spinach crop and it has made its way into supermarkets with hundreds of people reporting symptoms.

I've been watching the reports for a week or so now, and just today they have admitted that the contaminating weed was in fact 'thornapple'

GC.
 
I like that there is a level headed topic about these plants.

I have grown Brugmansias for 8 years and last summer grew Datura wrightii. The Brugmansia I grew was one I found growing next to a creek that produced quite a reaction from just taking a big sniff of her wonderful flowers. Datura and Brugmansia different plants and energies. I have had ayahuasca with toé (brugmansia) in it before and sleeping with a flower above my head was definitely a few nights of potent dreams.

I am curious if anyone has made an oil infusion. I'm not really interested in waking delirium but am called to work with either through dreaming. Anyone want to comment on usage with regard to dreams? I have not been able to replicate the effect that flower had over multiple nights sleep again but oh my was it powerful. It felt deeply touching and to look up at the stars in a toé dream was a sight to behold.
 
Never tried the plants, but diphenhydramine is in that general category, the same way LSD is in the general category of psilocybin, mescaline, and DMT.

Diphenhydramine was a very “witchcraft/spooky” space to be in, very delirious…. Very bad for the brain. But also some of the most powerful psychic/telepathic abilities I’ve ever encountered from drug use….. LSD telepathy is better, but not as readily available…. But you’re also much more delirious….. I didn’t see much value in it, just because it was so out of control. Fading in and out of blackouts, seemed to almost parallel the “sink/ascend/sink/….” cycle we have in sleep cycles…..

Never again, but very powerful experiences. For very advanced practicioners, I can see why datura is sometimes added to ayahuasca brews…. Lots of psychic potential gets unleashed. But I’ve heard that’s only for the most advanced shamans…. So difficult to be in control at the full dose level of these things….. literally talking to people who weren’t there, thinking they were real, and then they just vanish….. But telepathy. Lots.

I was a self-destructive teenager who was interested in psychic stuff instead of recreational stuff, so, I risked my life taking that stuff a fair few times, at really high doses. Agreed with previous sentiments in this thread: this stuff is probably best left at taboo “all use is unsafe” kinda descriptions. Sooo dangerous, in so many ways. Psychologically, physically, dangers through delirious misadventure….

Mostly just avoided because it very much felt like it was horrible in terms of potential brain damage. Like, the whole egg frying in a pan being your brain, obviously a general load of shit. But that stuff just felt like it could genuinely do real damage.
 
An update on my Datura stramonium exploration.

Been drinking cold or warm brewed fresh stramonium flower tea. Feels healthier than eating seeds and very empowering.

It's noteworthy how these plants are known to induce stupidity, while in my experience, the low doses are quite cognition enhancing; the brain feels lucid, hyperconnected, centered. I am leaning on that depending on dose, there are opposite effects of neuroprotection + nootropic vs causing neural damage.

Very interesting how it brings on a consciousness of financial awareness and being strong in society. This contrasts with rue (+light) which doesn't care about this dimension of life and is purely concerned with the natural and spiritual dimensions, ime. Both datura and mandrake are noted to be associated with prosperity in various cultures...

I have a few experiences with leaves, but I just couldn't like it. Dark, bringing down, with "zombie" vibes vs uplifting, full of light flowers and seeds.

Right now I am trying to figure out the energetic differences between the flowers and seeds. I know this is a very obscure matter in the current world, but I still put out this question, just in case I catch a fish that actually is professed in this matter.
 
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Would love to hear more about this "financial awareness" thing.

Seems right to me. In Brazil, this is a sacred plant of Exu, and after all it his him responsible in all kinds of trades and trafficking.

I only used toé flowers and leaves, never the seeds.
 
My experience (with D. stramonium) is only with drinking weak infusions of the flowers or eating 3-8 seeds; (understandably) I haven't gone into deep waters with this plant. I recall reading in some anthropological studies that datura initiations are used in part to ensure a life of prosperity for young adults. For me, it consistently makes me focus on my finances and stimulates "visions" of what I could possibly do to earn a lot and ensure a life of relative wealth. This is novel for me and for all the plants that I have experienced.

Another notable effect has been a return to physical activity, exercise and sports which I have neglected much since about a decade. Very interesting.

I don't know how much overlap there is with Brugmansia.
 
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dithyramb said:
My experience (with D. stramonium) is only with drinking weak infusions of the flowers or eating 3-8 seeds; (understandably) I haven't gone into deep waters with this plant. I recall reading in some anthropological studies that datura initiations are used in part to ensure a life of prosperity for young adults. For me, it consistently makes me focus on my finances and stimulates "visions" of what I could possibly do to earn a lot and ensure a life of relative wealth. This is novel for me and for all the plants that I have experienced.

Another notable effect has been a return to physical activity, exercise and sports which I have neglected much since about a decade. Very interesting.

I don't know how much overlap there is with Brugmansia.
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This is so interesting. I’ve been on a parallel path, of sorts, in terms of neglecting exercise and making efforts to reconnect with it. After years of overspending and under-earning, I was forced to become more financially disciplined and aware, which has been an ongoing process for me. I think it’s fascinating that a plant known for disconnecting people from consensual reality via delusional mind states could have the opposite effect at lower doses, effectively connecting people to relative truth, societal life, and the physical plane. I’ve always been drawn to datura but have been extremely cautious when it comes to approaching it. I have chewed 1-4 datura stramonium seeds on multiple occasions, but haven’t noticed the effects you described. I’m guessing it’s a matter of tuning in to subtle effects, rather than pushing the dosage too much in order to really “feel” it…
 
One unsurprising thing I have noticed is that there is a huge difference between fresh flowers or fresh seeds vs non fresh seeds. Non fresh seeds seem to give me an empty high whereas fresh material is really empowering, the "financial awareness" effect only coming from fresh material.
 
I've often wanted to grow the giant mandrake, Mandragora turcomanica. It looks so beautiful.

I love the flowers of the Brugmansia and Datura plants and have grown them as ornamental plants in the past.
 
ommani said:
I think it’s fascinating that a plant known for disconnecting people from consensual reality via delusional mind states could have the opposite effect at lower doses, effectively connecting people to relative truth, societal life, and the physical plane.
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Maybe the plant is just merely showing that 'relative truth, societal life, and the physical plane' are a delusional mind state. 😁
 
rkba said:
Maybe the plant is just merely showing that 'relative truth, societal life, and the physical plane' are a delusional mind state. 😁
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From the viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta, as I understand it, only Brahman is real and all else is illusion, or Maya, which makes sense, in a way, but feels one-sided to me. My personal view is more closely aligned with Vajrayana (Tantric) Buddhism, which holds that relative truth, or the reality of the physical plane, and ultimate truth, or the reality of the absolute/ground of being, are indivisible. Hence, the ultimate unity of nirvana and samsara in Vajrayana Buddhism, in contrast to the hard delineation of nirvana/samsara in the Theravada tradition.

In my experience, spirituality bypassing relative truth can entail a disregard for the law of karma, or cause and effect, which can have all kinds of unwanted/unintended consequences, large and small.

There’s a book I haven’t read called The Secret Drugs of Buddhism, which I believe is about the psychoactive plants used in early, Tantric Buddhist rites. Given the use and veneration of datura in Tantric Hinduism/Shaivism, and the overlap between Hindu and Buddhist Tantra, I think it’s fair to assume that datura was probably among the plants historically utilized in Tantric Buddhism.
 
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