Nontoxic Extraction Q&A

[Dimitrius]

I dreamed of using bark that was *finely* shredded. There was mostly powder among a few very fine and fluffy shreds, so I opted for using the bark as is. For future reference, would anyone recommend further trying to powder the bark in a coffee grinder?

Dimitrius uses very finely powdered root bark. The finer the better with this drytek method.

D-limo was added: at this point, I "connected" with the bark while stirring, and the procedure felt incredibly right. Just like cooking Aya... The bark was stirred, stirred, stirred, and sat overnight.

E..X..A..C..T..L..eeeeee.

This morning, bark was filtered through a sieve. Only 150mL (half) of the d-limo was able to be squeezed out. 5 pulls with FASW were done. At first, the fumaric acid would not dissolve in the water, so I ended up shaking it vigorously in a jar until dissolved.

Make sure to heat the water before attempting to dissolve the FA. Pour the water through a metal sieve to catch any undissolved bits.

The FASW was added to the limo... inspirational music was blasted, and insane joyful dancing in celebration of the opportunity to visit hyperspace commenced... (This made me also contemplate ways to get more FUN and CELEBRATION of spirit into an Aya brew, though one can't easily dance with 4L pots of boiling water. ) I actually broke a sweat, the dancing was a complete and uninhibited release. I am certain elves were watching.

One CAN dance with a separatory funnel....ahemm, the separatory funnel cha cha....ooooo, some O.T.T. gets the job done right. 8)

Hmmm...Dimitrius just realized that FASI will not require a sep. funnel as with FASW. Separating is his favorite part.

All in all, how does that sound? It amazes me how the dream world mirrors real life, at times. Was my dream accurate relative to the information here?

Sounds perfect.

 

[Dimitrius]

Dimitrius, thank you so much for your post. SWIM wishes he had come across it before he spent the last week trying to collect and compile an overwhelming amount of information. SWIM still has some questions...

1. Can FASW be stored in an airtight container?

Uhmmmm...yes?

Add 300 ml of d-limonene. Mix very thoroughly.. Let sit a few hours or overnight

2. Does the container with this ^ concoction have to be covered if it sits overnight?

No. The limonene is not going to evaporate away over night. That being said, it can be covered. Don't use an aluminum or plastic lid. Use....like..a plate or something.

3. Would a large plastic bag tilted 45 degrees be ok to use as a separator?

Dimitrius doesn't trust cheap plastics with limonene and such. He uses only glass and stainless steel.

So....yes, it will function a separator, but research what ever type of plastic is being considered...HDPE, PP, PETE, etc....

If one were to use FASI instead of FASW, then one wouldn't need a sep. funnel, since FASI causes spice to precipitate out of the entire mixed solution solvent.

4. When the FA and d-limonene are combined in the separator, how long do they need to sit before they can be separated?

Dimitrius shakes & swirls very well for around 15-25 minutes, to music. Is this too long? He doesn't know. Is it not long enough? It's plenty long enough, bordering on overkill.

5. After the first separation and subsequent evaporation, where one gets DMT fumerate, by

Repeat steps 4 & 5 at least 2-3 times,

Does SWIY mean mix new FASW with the old limonene from the first separation, reseperate and re-evaporate?

Ok...so one performs 3 or 4 limonene pulls for the entire extraction..correct??

Well, on each individual limonene pull, you perform 3-4 FASW or vinegar pulls.

So in the case of using FASW as the acid, Dimitrius adds 25ml FASW per 75ml limonene....so say he has 150ml limonene from his 1st pull, he will mix and separate 50ml FASW 3 SEPARATE TIMES(total of 150ml FASW), on that 1st Pull....Then, do the same for each subsequent limonene pull.

6. And by

Repeat steps 2 - 6 at least 2 times.

Does SWIY mean take the mimosa mush that was caught by the stainless steel tea strainer during the first straining, mix it with a new 300 mL limonene, continue?

Yes! Get it all back in the container for the 2nd round of limonene.

7.

Throw this into the food dehydrator until dry. Once dry,

SWIM thinks you forgot to type something here Dimitrius. Is there anything that needs to be done once it is dry?

Uhhh, yes.

So, add the solvent of choice to pull the freebase jurema stuff from the now dried paste. One would perform 3 solvent pulls on the paste....30-40ml per gram jurema goodness X 3 pulls.

One can decant the now D-saturated solvent off the paste layer in the bottom....

...or if some of the powder is for some reason floating a bit, a good filter setup can be a great help...search for Cosmic Lion's pressure filter device.

 

[Jorkest]

why does this sound so damn complicated? if you follow the BLAB directions..its easy as hell...easiest extraction i have done....just take it slow...and take it easy..and get the materials that you need...and just do it...

 

[amor_fati]

With all due respect, Jorkest and Psychodo, it would seem the thread's shifted to nontoxic limtek, rather than BLAB. Perhaps a title change is in order, minxx?

3. Would a large plastic bag tilted 45 degrees be ok to use as a separator?

Try a glass gravy separator, as 69ron suggests in his cactus limtek. After SWIM broke his separatory funnel, that's what he switched to. He even got the wrong one (the opening from the chamber to the spout is like a little funnel), but he still makes it work alright. It's helpful to have a pasteur pipette handy when using a gravy separator.

I dreamed of using bark that was *finely* shredded. There was mostly powder among a few very fine and fluffy shreds, so I opted for using the bark as is. For future reference, would anyone recommend further trying to powder the bark in a coffee grinder?

Most dryteks and limteks aren't well-suited for use with anything other than powdered bark; however, there's a solution to this in the first few steps, here: Amor fati's Nontoxic Approach to Spice Extraction - DMT-Nexus Wiki

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Changed! 8)

Thanks again, to everyone.

(These techniques are pretty simple... in retrospect!)

 

[q21q21]

3. Would a large plastic bag tilted 45 degrees be ok to use as a separator?

SWIM uses this tek for 100% of his seperations. Although some brands can be destroyed by limonene "Ziplock" brand ones do not.


Also SWIM would like to note that amor-fati's tek rules, though SWIM's new tek isn't non-toxic (uses naptha) it uses all the same materials as his tek and is easy, lazy and high yield.

 

[endlessness]

I would absolutely NOT recommend using plastic bag for separation... maybe you dont SEE the solvent doing something to the plastic but it can definitely be happening that some plastic is being dissolved... but its your choice whether that is a risk you are willing to take.. I would never risk having plastic in my final product, specially if the whole point is to have a more natural extraction that one can consume, smoking or ingesting, more worry-free that final product has nothing toxic.

 

[amor_fati]

Also SWIM would like to note that amor-fati's tek rules, though SWIM's new tek isn't non-toxic (uses naptha) it uses all the same materials as his tek and is easy, lazy and high yield.

Thanks for the props! It seems we've been feeding off of each other for inspiration quite a bit lately.


SWIM used to used plastic bags some time ago, and while he never noted any decomposition of the plastic, SWIM tends to err on the side of caution in most cases and would have to agree with endlessness. Gravy separators work surprisingly well for such a small investment.

 

[lorentz5]

Hey Dimitrius, SWIM has a quick question for you...

(note) SWIM pours his through a stainless steel tea strainer (a sieve) into a glass beaker that has a nice pouring lip/spout. Then he pours the limonene into his separatory funnel.

Does SWIY really use a sieve to separate the limonene from the bark/lime? SWIM was just wondering: his bark is powdered, so some fine particulates of bark are inevitably going to pass through the sieve. If he's doing a FASW evap in conjunction with the limonene, then wouldn't the lime/bark bits settle down to the bottom of the separator, thus be poured off with the FASW, and THUS end up in the final fumerate product? I see Amor uses THP instead of a sieve... Would that be a better idea?

 

[Dimitrius]

Hey Dimitrius, SWIM has a quick question for you...

(note) SWIM pours his through a stainless steel tea strainer (a sieve) into a glass beaker that has a nice pouring lip/spout. Then he pours the limonene into his separatory funnel.

Does SWIY really use a sieve to separate the limonene from the bark/lime? SWIM was just wondering: his bark is powdered, so some fine particulates of bark are inevitably going to pass through the sieve. If he's doing a FASW evap in conjunction with the limonene, then wouldn't the lime/bark bits settle down to the bottom of the separator, thus be poured off with the FASW, and THUS end up in the final fumerate product? I see Amor uses THP instead of a sieve... Would that be a better idea?

No no no.... nothing ends up in the final product.

You know one of those tea strainer balls?....It's a HALF of one of those. It's a pretty fine sieve. Not like the larger ones.

http://www.kitchencookshop.co.uk/images/uploads/tea-ball%5B1%5D.jpg

When he pours off the limonene from the measuring cup, the 'mud' doesn't really come out.


SO, he pours off what limonene will come out on it's own, easily. Then he pokes around in the 'mud' to release a little more limonene...then pours that through the sieve into the beaker. None of the mud ever really pours out. If it does, not a problem...see below.

On the last pull, he pours off the limonene just as he did with the previous pulls, i.e., through the sieve and into the beaker. Then, he transfers the entire 'mud' mixture into to his french press(glass/stainless steel) where he attempts to squeeze out any remaining limonene....this is where some 'mud' may come through depending on how much he pushes on the mixture with the filter/press/sieve.

He pours whatever limonene will come out through the tea ball sieve into the beaker. If any little 'mud' bits pour out with the limonene, they slide right through the sieve without stopping. :shock:

This is not a problem AT ALL...lol.

The globules of 'mud' sink straight to the bottom, where they are easily retrievable with a glass dropper.

Squeeze the dropper bulb and stick the dropper down into the limonene. Pick up the little globules by letting off your squeeze ever so slightly. They suck right up!

Any limonene that gets pulled into the dropper is also NOT A PROBLEM, AT ALL. The 'mud' bits coagulate in the tip of the dropper and the limonene stays separated above it. Gently squirt out the 'mud' bits and then squirt the limonene back into the limonene beaker.

Twalah! It's not hard and it's simpler than reading this somewhat long, drawn-out explanation....which by the way, forgive SWIM for not being as concise as usual. His head is filled with a mean cold and he should be in bed...not at the pc. :roll:

SWIM isn't lax with contamination and he's easily annoyed by inefficient methods... for him this is a quick, simple, and easy method. No muss, no fuss.

 

[Dimitrius]

....maybe you dont SEE the solvent doing something to the plastic but it can definitely be happening that some plastic is being dissolved.

Exactly.

Citrus Ingredients and Oils

As one of the largest procurers in the citrus market and using all parts of citrus fruits, ADM sources its products from quality citrus groves throughout the world.

www.floridachemical.com

Those bags are probably polyethylene.

 

[lorentz5]

....maybe you dont SEE the solvent doing something to the plastic but it can definitely be happening that some plastic is being dissolved.

Exactly.

Citrus Ingredients and Oils

As one of the largest procurers in the citrus market and using all parts of citrus fruits, ADM sources its products from quality citrus groves throughout the world.

www.floridachemical.com

Those bags are probably polyethylene.

But I hear about people all the time using HD polyethylene for making percolators, funnels, separators, etc in conjunction with d-limo. Is that a problem?

BTW, thanks for your explanation above ^. sounds simple.

 

[amor_fati]

Especially considering that it's sold in HDPE jugs

 

[endlessness]

Especially considering that it's sold in HDPE jugs

what, limonene? I only ever saw it in glass...

in any case, HDPE jugs for chemical products are definitely stronger than some ziplock-ish kind of bag..

I dont know for a fact if it would be a problem with those kind of bags, what kind of plastic are they, LDPE? But anyways as you also mentioned, fati, better be careful about these things...

 

[lorentz5]

So what's the consensus? d-limonene+HDPE=good or bad? I can't find any details on the effects and SWIM's limonene is on the way so he's still wondering...

He did find that "flourinated" containers or PET are good to use.

 

[amor_fati]

Especially considering that it's sold in HDPE jugs

what, limonene? I only ever saw it in glass...

in any case, HDPE jugs for chemical products are definitely stronger than some ziplock-ish kind of bag..

I dont know for a fact if it would be a problem with those kind of bags, what kind of plastic are they, LDPE? But anyways as you also mentioned, fati, better be careful about these things...

And SWIM's only ever seen it in HDPE. Once upon a time, SWIM used to use ziplock bags for some nasty extraction processes using naphtha. SWIM's seen naphtha melt the lids of containers that will hold up fine to acetone, but he never had it melt through a bag at all (even when clipped to a line, waiting for separation and settling of emulsions). However, SWIM would never use this method anymore and wouldn't recommend anyone else use it either, and he would definitely err on the side of caution. His only argument is against the claim that polyethylene doesn't hold up to limonene, but SWIM can only vouch for HDPE--most members would agree.

Separatory funnels can be a pricey liability for personal use, but gravy separators are cheap and work well. Otherwise, Nexus members have historically used glass basters and pasteur pipettes.

 

[Simplistic Randamonium]

is CaMg(OH)4 ok to use?
i found hydrated lime that is CaMg(OH)4 and did not want to wast limited funds...