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NONTOXIC LIMONENE TEK

Migrated topic.
endlessness said:
wouldnt there be acetic acid vapors, then, which would be harsh on the lungs?
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Very good point.

With DMT acetate, it's about 32% acetic acid. If you smoked 65 mg of DMT acetate, that would contain 41 mg of DMT and about 24 mg of acetic acid, if it actually separated as theorized. However the boiling point of acetic acid is 118 C while the boiling point of DMT is 60-80 C. So if the temperature was kept at the boiling point of DMT you wouldn't be inhaling boiling acetic acid vapor, but you would be inhaling acetic acid fumes from it. Would that be enough to cause irritation to the lungs?
 
endlessness said:
wouldnt there be acetic acid vapors, then, which would be harsh on the lungs?
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69ron said:
Very good point.

With DMT acetate, it's about 32% acetic acid. If you smoked 65 mg of DMT acetate, that would contain 41 mg of DMT and about 24 mg of acetic acid, if it actually separated as theorized. However the boiling point of acetic acid is 118 C while the boiling point of DMT is 60-80 C. So if the temperature was kept at the boiling point of DMT you wouldn't be inhaling boiling acetic acid vapor, but you would be inhaling acetic acid fumes from it. Would that be enough to cause irritation to the lungs?
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ILPT smoked DMT, or more exactly spice acetate in hope the acetic (acidic) compound would somehow calm caustic effects of dmt freebase. HE ALMOST CAUGHT HIS LUNGS OFF! horrible experience, very harsh smoke rough on the throat.
 
endlessness said:
wouldnt there be acetic acid vapors, then, which would be harsh on the lungs?
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really? are those vapors really that much harsher to be of concern? come on, you're intentionally vaporizing the matrix...

some debate has spread about the size of the pipe dream and matters of concern...theory: larger pipes allow more space to drift away from the preferred temp status. it is hypothesized by this foaf that the smaller pipe stays warmest throughout so that it remains around 60 degrees and doesn't allow spices to go back to the dream's original form as a solid.

Others would say that the heat is too intense and so the distance between the flame and journeyman matters.

What tools for change does one use to journey with spices?
 
SyZyGyPSy said:
7.5 OPTIONAL: If you want smoke-able magick without resorting to petroleum, the best way Swim has found so far is to add non-denatured lab-grade ethanol to the limo at this point. Some freebase magick will migrate to the ETOH which can then be evaporated and smoked (where legal). However this is not really cost effective, so he's still hoping to find a better way. But in the mean time, he's happy knowing it can be done.

8. Add vine gar (vinegar) unto the limonene. Dunno how much is optimal yet, probly 100-200ml is good. Swish it around some... sometimes Swim shaketh the hell out of it, which seems to make the gar a bit cloudier but the end result is still good. Other times he just swirls it around and then upends it while it's still swirling. Experiment to find your preferred method, but since emulsions aren't really a problem at this point it really doesn't seem to matter much, IMO.

9. Drain off the vine gar into a baking dish and repeat step 8 once or twice more to pull all the magick out of the limo and into the gar. The baking dish, with the combined gar pulls, can then be placed under a phan fro evap-o-ration. Swim has a glasstop stove, so he puts his ceramic dish on a burner on "low" with a huge phan pointing at it. Your final product is gonna be sticky & in salt form, so there's no danger of it evaporating or blowing away.
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How much ETOH do you use? and if you use ETOH is it evaporated with low, flame-less heat or at room temp with ventilation?

Won't the magick smell like vinegar?
 
Sorry for taking so long to reply to this question, been away for awhile...
So actually this whole thing needs to be updated. Swim has now found a reliable method for obtaining freebase spice.
Long story short, he uses sodium carbonate to freebase the acetic salts after they'be been redissolved in a small amount of water. Then he adds isopropanol which floats on top of the aqueous layer and pulls the spice (iso is insoluble in sodium carbonate solutions). Then he evaps the iso, revealing dimitrius goo and some sodium carbonate residue (the iso separation isn't 100%). So he redissolves the dmt in DRY (100%) iso, which doesn't dissolve the sodium carbonate. Then he evaps it onto a small amount of leaf.
That's it in a nutshell. Swim is revising the entire tek and will post it soon in another thread (he's actually kind of ashamed of how sloppy the old tek seems now in comparison). Please be patient and keep a lookout for the revision, coming soon.
-Syzygy Psy
 
Thanks man. It really was a group effort... I couldn't have done it without some of the suggestions posted on that "spice limonene update" thread you started.
Thanks so much for all your help! 8)
 
I just found out that normal food approved HDPE can resist d-limonene completely. HDPE is plastic with recycling code #2 printed on it. So use that and you're good to go.
 
Really interested in this tek.
Currently going around the net sourcing necessary ingredients.
I was gonna try a petroleum-based solvent tek but this seems much better, esp as I will be pissing off people I live with with nasty fumes, and I prefer the more eco / non-toxic approach.
I am a total noob to this, have had some recent experience with Ayahuasca and would like to try creating smokeable DMT, prob in the form of enhanced leaf.
I'm not that interested in the oral ingestion method at the moment as I am quite happy with traditional Ayahuasca brews.
I will be patiently awaiting your updated tek, in the meantime, I will wait for my ingredients to arrive and try the one currently up here.

Thank you.
 
so SWIM just had an idea...his bottle of fumaric acid says that its soluble in water at .63g/100ml at 25C

so he was thinking if he put 150mg of fumaric acid in 25ml of water...and then added that to the spice saturated d-limonene..that spice fumarate would migrate to the acidic water solution..and then when evaporated you would have spice fumarate crystals instead of gooey sticky acetate spice..

how does this sound to you folk??
 
so SWIM put 150mg of fumaric acid in ~25ml water that is around 25C...and most of it DID get absorbed..so when he gets his spice saturated d-limonene out of this extraction..he will test this out and see what happens!!
 
okay how could one skip the evap acetate stage if the desired outcome is freebase ?
why does it need to be evapped 2wice ?
 
because the amount of d-limonene that you use to extract from is way more than you want to evaporate..because of that ~5% other products in the food grade d-limonene..its a question of..if you want 5% of 10ml or 5% of 100+ml..

i suppose you could just evaporate the d-limonene..but it will be all goopy and this way..SWIM can actually weigh it and then convert it..and know how much should come out..also SWIM plans on enhancing some herbs with this stuff..but that will come
 
no what i meant was like can swim take the dmt acetate while still in the vinegar and add sodium carbonate to it slowly slowly - as not to fizz too much - then pull with d-limo and evap - something along those lines - swim likes to reuse his dlimo and likes to avoid evapping it wherever possible.
 
no what i meant was like can SWIM take the dmt acetate while still in the vinegar and add sodium carbonate to it slowly slowly - as not to fizz too much - then pull with d-limo and evap - something along those lines - SWIM likes to reuse his dlimo and likes to avoid evapping it wherever possible.
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You may -sort of- have the right idea here. Swim's been pondering something similar. However, you wouldn't want to use limo to pull. The limo simply won't evap cleanly.

Much better would be isopropanol. IF one were to have salted out into some vinegar or other acid, and added a shitload of sodium carbonate SLOWLY so as not to create a volcano... and then use iso, the iso would form a separate layer on top (assuming you added enough sodium carbonate to make the iso not wanna be in the aqueous layer... the more, the better). One could then separate the iso, which would contain the alkaloids, and evap it. It's not a perfect separation so there would still be a little sodium carbonate, but one can remove this by redissolving the alkaloids in anhydrous iso.

I may have mentioned this already but you can get anhydrous iso for like six bux for 16 oz online, it's sold as a computer cleaning supply. Or you can make your own anhydrous iso by using NaCl to pull the water from 91% (or perhaps even 70%) iso down to the bottom, siphon off semipure (~98%) iso from the top, then dry out the remaining water with baked epsom salts.

Hope that helps... I started on a write-up of the revised tek last night, going out of town today but hopefully will finish it when I get back in a week or so. 'Till then, all the information is in this thread, you just gotta sift thru to find it.

Luv n' Lite,
SyZ
 
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