Noopept massively potentiates iboga oneirophrenia: absolutely splendid!

[marypoppins]

I think small dose iboga (i.e. 1g bark) could be a worthwhile part of a nootropic stack. Perhaps if you cycled it 2 weeks on, 4 weeks off or something like that or longer even, depending on the elimination half-life of noribogaine.

I have been microdosing iboga root bark for 2 years on and off as a
nootropic awareness supplement.
I usually have found that 300 - 500 mg 2x/day for 3 weeks works best for me
I will sometimes go as high as 1 - 1.3 gms 2x/day
I have also found that 3 weeks seems to be optimal - after 4 weeks it just does not feel right
(perhaps this is due to iboga's toxicity)
(it could be that my low dosage need is related to a synergistic effect from others herbs and tonics that i take. For many years I have taken a combination of brahmi, gota kola, ashwaganda, gingko, foti, liquorice, cayenne. For the last year I also take a combination of rhodiola, rhaponticum, ashitaba, american ginseng, siberian ginseng. I also take shilajit for years)

This thread introduced me to noopept - which I have recently started taking.
Wow - like someone just turned the on switch on in my brain.
I have been taking around 15mg 2x / day

Next stage is to combine with a cycle of iboga.
My hope is that I will be able to take the root bark down to 100 mg (50?) to have th esame effect that i got from 500 mg in order to decrease the toxicity thus allowing longer cycles (perhaps 3 months)

Also very interested to see how they work together and what the combined daily affect will be.

Will try and post end next week

M.P.

 

[cyb]

Wow - like someone just turned the on switch on in my brain.

It really is quite something isn't it !
I've been dosing daily for 2 months now. I had one or two days off and felt that I sank back down to where I used to be and felt the desire to continue. (could've been the hangover though)
Wish there was more research available...

I use the light bulb analogy too...if everyday conciousness is a waning 25watt bulb...Pept is a 60watt bulb shining strong on your face all day.

 

[marypoppins]

Wish there was more research available...

so i add my bioassay research:

after 10 wonderful days of noopept the iboga experiment begins....

my initail goal was to see if the potentiation of root bark would allow for lower doses
thus bypassing the toxicity issue which limits the length of the cycle of the microdosing

so day 1
100 mg of root bark + Noopept -
(my dose is 30 mg am and 20 mg pm)
little affect from the rootbark but no contraindications felt

day 2
a.m.: 400 mg of r.b. + 30 mg noopept
p.m.: 400 mg r.b + 20 mg noopept
this is going to be fun !!!!
my wild side wants to quickly up the dosage but i will go slow
it is as if
the noopept hit the on switch,
and the rootbark is functioning like a microscope / telescope
or maybe i could call it "iboga photoshop"
noopept certainly ups the brightness and clarity
while iboga is adding ... dimensionality

 

[marypoppins]

Notwithstanding an amazing 10 days of iboga + noopept

IT MIGHT BE THAT THE "MASSIVE POTENTIATION" IS ACTUALLY NERO EXCITOTOXICITY !!!!

It appears that ibogaine icreases glutamate in the the brain
if so:
NOOPEPT + IBOGAINE MIGHT INCREASE EXCITOTOXICITY

AMPA is a glutamate receptor partly responsible for excitation of neurons. Noopept increase the action AMPA receptors, so when something binds to them, they have a greater response. Ibogaine appears to increases available glutamate. On the one hand, you've give neurons the ability to become excited more easily, and then you increase the amount of chemical available that excites the neurons. This creates a synergy. Excitotoxicity occurs when a neuron becomes too excited, it fires too much, and is damaged because of it. The postulate here is that this synergistic effect could increase the excitation of neurons to the point where they are damaged.


even more indicitave is the following report

Neuroreport. 1995 Aug 21;6(12):1611-6.
Excitotoxic insult due to ibogaine leads to delayed induction of neuronal NOS in Purkinje
O'Hearn E, Zhang P, Molliver ME.


Any scientists out there ....?????

 

[embracethevoid]

Thanks!

Well personally I am not worried about glutamate excitotoxicity in the first place. I've suffered from severe neural damage in the past actually pertaining to glutamate/AMPA overactivity and recovered wholly from it.

We can make the observation that some substances come into the body and just kill cells left and right. But death is as much a part of Being as is life! A lot of cells must die, for a lot of cells to be born.

The reason I do not see this as a problem, personally is due to a few factors:

1.) I am on a neurotrophin boosting stack incl. Lion's Mane, ALCAR, He shou Wu and ironically Noopept amongst countless many things. Neurotrophins (e.g. NGF, BDNF, NT-3, NT-4) are substances that signal the brain to build neurons in the same way testosterone tells it to build muscle. Neurogenesis is full on.



2.) Excitoxicity only really matters in the context of high doses as far as I personally know. A little cell death is expected even from just blinking your eyes but it's when neurons die off by the millions that we have major cause for concern. As long as the rate of neurogenesis is higher than the rate of neural death, we're all good.

Microdose iboga with reasonable doses of Noopept should not hopefully cause too many issues in that regard.



3.) I did not feel the excitotoxic 'burn' on my brain when using this combo. It's hard to explain what I mean by the 'burn' unless you've already been through it; it's this bizarre melting sensation in the brain which when it's happening you're thinking oh sheeeet oh sheeeet ayegawndunnitdistimeboy.

You might feel it after high dose amphetamines, cocaine derivatives, phenethylamine-derived psychedelics, dissociatives/deliriants and a few other things. The crucial thing is that days and weeks after the experience, you will notice your functioning has been impaired, and it will remain impaired until you reestablish good neurogenesis.




The funny thing is that on the Longecity forums there are a lot of known trolls floating around who claim to have bamaged their drain due to glutamate excitotoxicity so take such stories with a pinch of salt. I actually have had massive neuron death due to excitotoxicity and it took chronic usage of stupid doses of stupid things to trigger it and even then these things didn't do anything of their own accord, it was the mania they triggered wherein it actually occured.

And even then, I am still back to 100% though I would not recommend anyone play with glutamate. You would be surprised how incredibly resilient and adaptive the brain is. A 2 week long mania did nothing, I only actually felt serious issues arise after several months in a very intense kundalini-related mania, a state which a vanishing fraction of people on Earth will probably even induce anyway.



TL;DR - Stick to low doses of glutamate inducers and don't add in stupid things (esp alcohol), boost neurogenesis with other herbs too and you'll be good to go

Also - avoid ALL high THC cannabis, CBD heavy cannabis is OK but stay WELL CLEAR of THC; THC + glutamate/ampa excess = brain go bye

A diet rich in antioxidants and toxic metabolite eliminators is also crucial. Excitotoxicity can be reduced by ensuring the body has a minimal level of heavy metals, pollutants and pathogens and supporting the organs to keep going full blast in eliminating all waste byproducts - some examples:

Spinach, garlic, turmeric + black pepper, lemon, ginger, honey, wheatgrass, barleygrass, chlorella, spirulina, broccoli, reishi full spectrum extract, caapi, green tea

 

[embracethevoid]

It's been roughly just about a month since the experience reported herein, no further iboga intake past the last trip report. I am still feeling the effects. It appears to me that while iboga and harmala do not really synergise when directly mixed [RISK OF SEROTONIN OVERDOSE DUE TO SSRI+MAOI COMBO) , there is a very good synergy between its metabolites, residual iboga in the body fat stores and harmala alkaloids.

The effects observed are:

* Vastly improved proprioceptive ability
* Ability to dissolve into music esp. when playing guitar ('Guitar yoga')
* Clear sight - both of the eyes and of the mind
* Drive & ambition - things which iboga has a grand reputation for bolstering
* Greatly reduced need for sleep and food
* Vastly enhanced intuition; directly related to proprioception & spatial perception boost

The ability to see hands through closed eyes remains. If I take a dose of harmala large enough to send me into a shaky hyper-reactive state and meditate such that the shakiness (AChE-I related) is transformed into stillness then this effect is particularly pronounced. I cannot comment on negative effects as I immediately throw everything in my arsenal at a bodily malady should it arise.

It seems that the combination presented herein allows for amazing increases in spacial reasoning ability. If someone is exploring the meditative ideas of "doing without doing, acting without acting" then this is an ideal avenue of exploration.


This is particularly amplified by aniracetam (acts on AMPA, also on dopamine D2) and noopept taken together. Piracetam on the other hand seems to induce a little brain fog or a sensation of dullness which I cannot comment on as I do not know the chemical origin of that. However vaporized piracetam and harmala together induces a musical euphoria very much like MDMA.

There certainly are questions of glutamate toxicity arising here. Although it is noted that there is much talk about excitotoxicity but as far as I have seen not very much evidence of it being significant in the realm of nootropics.

 

[Kambogahuascanga]

I'm taking this really slow and gathering as much info as possible. But I'm leaning on at least trying it.

* Vastly improved proprioceptive ability
* Ability to dissolve into music esp. when playing guitar ('Guitar yoga')
* Clear sight - both of the eyes and of the mind
* Drive & ambition - things which iboga has a grand reputation for bolstering
* Greatly reduced need for sleep and food
* Vastly enhanced intuition; directly related to proprioception & spatial perception boost

Seems well worth the try and I like your well thought out logical arguments. Very mature discussion that all forums could learn from such conduct.

 

[D.REYx420]

Yea great thread . Thank took for the glutamate interaction thing to

 

[marypoppins]

Okay
Now to throw the curve ball
This study here shows just the opposite
John Olney is one of the world's experts on exitotoxicity
This report / study is well worth the read through

"Use of ibogaine in reducing excitotoxic brain damage"

http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/5629307.html

while researching i continue my daily use of noopept but switched to
2x / daily micorodoses of a very powerful aya analogue mix

wow'wy ka'zo'wee
where as ibogaine + noopept seemed to join together synergistically to create this third wave 1+1=3
aya + noopept seem to complement each other in a very intricate weave

the ? of safety here of maoi + noopept seems to be dealt with here....
""The British National Formulary makes no mention of adverse interactions of piracetam and MAOIs; renal impairment and treatment with the anticoagulant wasrfarin are mentioned as being hazardous. Piracetam is licensed in the UK as an adjunct in the treatment of myoclonus of cortical origin, which kind of makes sense when you consider the structural similarities betweden this and GABA."

Back to the subject of the thread
noopept + ibogaine
my best description would be that the experience is somewhat like

that place / feeling beyond peaking
where everything just seems to slide back to normal....supra perfect yet normal


i do agree with all of the affects you listed
physically - the increase in eyesight and night vision was astounding

 

[Kambogahuascanga]

I wonder about even cycling with this method. Talk about potentiation. PS don't ask me what cycling is. Hint no wheels involved.

 

[marypoppins]

New Question

All of my reading seems to have produced the following:

ibogaine is an nmda antagonist and noopept is an nmda agonist


???????

 

[smoalker]

I just dosed 18mg noopept and 900mg iboga bark , I will report effects later on
I am usually extremely sensitive to iboga so this should be interesting.

 

[Blue Tiger]

Also - avoid ALL high THC cannabis, CBD heavy cannabis is OK but stay WELL CLEAR of THC; THC + glutamate/ampa excess = brain go bye
[/b]

embracethevoid, Would you please elaborate on the above statement?

"brain go bye" is a strong term. Cannabis and I have been close for decades, and I am a medically prescribed patient with THC levels varying from 17-23%. I have also smoked some hash oil that could be quadruple that in THC, so your post has concerned me a bit.

I have been on Noopept since February, and I did a 3 week Iboga MDing protocol in January.

I have also mixed the two: 60mgs of Noopept and 400 mgs of bark. The 3rd place certainly is noticeable, but without better understanding of the NMDA agonist/antagonist relationship, I am more closely mirroring Mary Poppin's regimen (cycling the two...).

Thanks in advance for the information. I feel blessed to be connected to this network.

One Love, Blue Tiger

 

[Observant]

I just dosed 18mg noopept and 900mg iboga bark , I will report effects later on
I am usually extremely sensitive to iboga so this should be interesting.

How was it smoalker?

 

[embracethevoid]

Also - avoid ALL high THC cannabis, CBD heavy cannabis is OK but stay WELL CLEAR of THC; THC + glutamate/ampa excess = brain go bye
[/b]

embracethevoid, Would you please elaborate on the above statement?

"brain go bye" is a strong term. Cannabis and I have been close for decades, and I am a medically prescribed patient with THC levels varying from 17-23%. I have also smoked some hash oil that could be quadruple that in THC, so your post has concerned me a bit.

I have been on Noopept since February, and I did a 3 week Iboga MDing protocol in January.

I have also mixed the two: 60mgs of Noopept and 400 mgs of bark. The 3rd place certainly is noticeable, but without better understanding of the NMDA agonist/antagonist relationship, I am more closely mirroring Mary Poppin's regimen (cycling the two...).

Thanks in advance for the information. I feel blessed to be connected to this network.

One Love, Blue Tiger

This is because chronic THC intake desensitises the brain's receptor sensitivity for anandamide, the endogenous CB receptor ligand and also the brain's endogenous anti-psychotic! A tolerance to THC is also a tolerance to anandamide in some fashion.

In a low anandamide sensitivity state, a glutamate excess can push a person into psychosis, or so the current theorising goes; specifically in the case where certain inhibitory glutamate neurons are not firing thereby allowing excitatory neurons to dominate.