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Nutmeg - The Worst Hallucinogen Ever?

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JEEZ!! That does sound like a horrible trip. I mean, the physical effects of it sound very scary and terrible, and like something you don't want to mess with, which is why that report will probably keep me from ever trying nutmeg. And yeah, 36 hours is way too long. But I must say, the psychological effects... that sounded positively brilliant to me. That's like a born again experience. I was reading it, and I was thinking, "I thought this was supposed to be a bad trip... this sounds AWESOME to me!". I guess I have enjoyed being humbled.

I was a naked soul before the baleful eye of a wrathful divinity. All my flaws were exposed, all my sins, all my misdeeds, laid open in glaring technicolor, with no hope of redemption, only a never-ending condemnation, a judgment of unworthiness. There was no grace, no mercy, no love, no forgiveness, no second chances. It was a sifting of my soul, and I was found wanting. I lay naked before a never-ending firmament, with only a cold gaze of judgment for company.
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That is one of the most beautiful descriptions of spiritual psychedelic experience I have ever read. There are atheists out there, and basically just people who are really full of themselves, who believe they are above this kind of experience. Like they could never be wrong about anything, like no power could cause them to be humbled. They haven't felt the potential of what lies within. I thought I was above being totally humbled too, and then I felt the power of psychedelics, and I realized not only am I not above anything, but I could be reduced to being humbled quite easily. It is only a very delicate balance that allows me, and every other civilized person, to live in this state where I can be fooled in to thinking that I am above being humbled. And the realization is that ANY person is also capable of the same level of fear, and you don't want to cause that harm to anyone else. It makes you want to treat others with dignity and respect as well. It has made me thankful for what I have, which is why I am thankful for the scary, humbling experience itself. Sometimes, people could use a good humbling. A good humbling without the danger of actually being physically hurt. Psychedelics can provide that. Well..... maybe not nutmeg because it sounds physically dangerous, but dmt can humble a soul or two.

Funny thing about psychedelics, they have the power to bring us to our knees in ecstasy, and/or terror as well. And, interestingly, both have actually been good for me. Both the terror, and ecstasy of psychedelics have taught powerful lessons.... and lessons that stick because they are so powerful.
 
Apoc said:
I was a naked soul before the baleful eye of a wrathful divinity. All my flaws were exposed, all my sins, all my misdeeds, laid open in glaring technicolor, with no hope of redemption, only a never-ending condemnation, a judgment of unworthiness. There was no grace, no mercy, no love, no forgiveness, no second chances. It was a sifting of my soul, and I was found wanting. I lay naked before a never-ending firmament, with only a cold gaze of judgment for company.
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That is one of the most beautiful descriptions of spiritual psychedelic experience I have ever read.
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Nutmeg essential oil has all the desired psychedelics without any trimyristin (the main toxin in the nuts). The nuts make you pretty sick. In order to get a psychedelic trip like that from the nuts you need to take pretty toxic doses of the nuts. The oil is not nearly as toxic as the nuts. With the oil, you can reach full psychedelic effects with just a few ml and the side effects are very minor compared to the nuts.

As you can tell from reading that report, myristicin and elemicin (the only psychedelic compounds found in nutmeg) can produce a very heavy duty psychedelic experience if the dose is high enough.

SWIM has used both ground nutmeg, and nutmeg essential oil. There is NO comparison. The oil is many times better than the nuts. SWIM has not taken a large dose, at most 0.5 ml of the essential oil. At that dose it’s like a hit of acid, with visuals, mental psychedelic effects, and no side effects. The mental effects of it are different from acid but comparable to acid for SWIM. I can see that at higher doses it can definitely cause a “bad trip”.

For those out there thinking about trying nutmeg, do yourself a favor and avoid the nuts altogether. Not even fresh nuts are as good as nutmeg essential oil, they are more toxic and less psychedelic. Go for the oil, and don’t take more than 1 ml for a first try. Nutmeg essential oil is a very serious heavy duty psychedelic pretty much on par with LSD.

The reason most people right off nutmeg as a psychedelic is because they use the powdered nuts sold at the grocery store. That stuff is pretty much worthless. At best it will make you sick and you might get some psychedelic effects from it if you're lucky, but mostly you’ll get sick. The oil is the opposite. With the essential oil you can reach psychedelic effects before any side effects kick in, and the side effects are mild compared to what you’ll get from the nuts.

The oil works best if used in whole milk, but also works pretty well in capsules. 0.5-1 ml is a starting dose for most people. That amount fits in 1 size "00" capsule easily (a size "00" capsule holds up to 0.95 ml).

Gel Cap Sizes
0.30 ml fills a size 3 capsule
0.37 ml fills a size 2 capsule
0.50 ml fills a size 1 capsule
0.68 ml fills a size 0 capsule
0.95 ml fills a size 00 capsule
1.37 ml fills a size 000 capsule
 
It seems strange that you can just buy nutmeg essential oil legally (I'm sure I saw it in a natural food shop), drink it with minimal preparation, have a strong trip and it doesn't seem to get the same level of interest as other psychedelics. Is it as simple as this, or is there some negative side? Why is it not illegal (unless if I'm mistaken and it actually is)?
 
Entheojen said:
It seems strange that you can just buy nutmeg essential oil legally (I'm sure I saw it in a natural food shop), drink it with minimal preparation, have a strong trip and it doesn't seem to get the same level of interest as other psychedelics. Is it as simple as this, or is there some negative side? Why is it not illegal (unless if I'm mistaken and it actually is)?
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Well there are some side effects at higher doses. That one negative, and the other is the 36 hour duration of the trip. But there are many RCs that are banned that aren't nearly as nice as nutmeg essential oil.

The reason it's legal is the same reason salvia was legal everywhere. No one knew about it. Pretty much no one knows about nutmeg essential oil, except a few people into essential oils for aromatherapy, some cooks who cook with essential oils, and some doctors and herbalists here and there, and the few people who’ve actually read this and a few other threads about it.

Most people have no idea there is even such thing as nutmeg essential oil. Its not sold at most grocery stores, whereas nutmeg powder is. It's all about accessibility. People see the powder at the grocery stores, try that, get sick, and never do it again. Nutmeg powder is its own deterrent. The FDA and DEA doesn’t need to get involved because most people who try nutmeg powder never do it again, and warn others not to do it. This is a well known fact.

Less than 1% of the people who try nutmeg are using nutmeg essential oil, the rest are using nutmeg powder, and a few are using fresh nuts. So the vast majority of the trip reports out there are full of side effects, making nutmeg look like a horrible psychedelic, something to stay away from. And this is true for the nuts and especially the powdered nuts. However, most people who try nutmeg essential oil (like SWIM) are pretty happy with the experience.

It’s all about accessibility. If the grocery stores carried nutmeg essential oil instead of powdered nutmeg, then how nutmeg is perceived in the popular culture would be VERY DIFFERENT, and it would probably be illegal.

As is it, no one uses nutmeg oil. If you’ve noticed, whenever I post about nutmeg essential oil, it’s nearly always followed by some unfortunate person complaining about how bad nutmeg powder is and why you should never do it. This is true on all the forums I’ve posted on. Most people completely ignore the fact that I’m posting about nutmeg oil, and just assume it’s the same as nutmeg. They don’t even bother to read my posts. They see “NUTMEG” in the subject and then they feel obligated to warn others about how nasty nutmeg powder is. Yes, nutmeg powder is nasty. There is no question about that. But nutmeg oil is a whole different ballgame.

It remains legal because no one knows it’s 1000 times better than nutmeg powder, except a few people who actually read my posts about it, or who did their own research on it.

People who’ve tried nutmeg and not nutmeg essential oil, are usually very quick to say the oil must not be anything better than the nuts are. People get the idea stuck in their heads that nutmeg is bad based on experience with the powder and refuse to believe the oil is any better. This kind of close mindedness is all over the place. There’s nothing I can do about it. I guess this is a good thing because it keeps nutmeg essential oil 100% legal.
 
Very interesting! Thanks for the reply. I guess people want to keep a lot of these resources, such as nutmeg essential oil or the wide variety of plants, out of the mainstream because they don't want to attract any attention to them. It's worrying thinking that the governments may try to ban all of these known resources following on from the mephedrone ban. A shop in my city sells Salvia extract and San Pedro extract in a really irresponsible and indiscreet way, plastering tubes of it over the windows with accompanying posters stating their effects. I just wonder how long it is before a wider drug ban is enforced. But anyway, I'm going way off topic here.
 
Entheojen, nutmeg essential oil will never become illegal. It’s an important flavoring used by many cooks. It’s main use is as a flavoring, and in the USA it’s approved for use as a flavoring. This is what makes it hard to make illegal. Since the FDA approved nutmeg oil for use as a flavoring, they are pretty much saying it’s safe to ingest, and by banning it, they would make their own rulings look stupid.

Nutmeg oil is GRAS according to the FDA. That means it’s generally regarded as safe. For the FDA to take something off the GRAS list that’s hugely popular for soft drink manufacturers (Coca Cola contains nutmeg oil) would be pretty much impossible.

The following essential oils are classified as GRAS by the US FDA:

Angelica
Anise
Basil
Bergamot
Black Pepper
Cardamom
Carrot Seed
Cassia
Celery Seed
Chamomile, German (Blue)
Chamomile, Roman
Cinnamon Bark
Citronella
Clary Sage
Clove
Coriander
Cumin
Dill
Eucalyptus Globulus
Fennel
Frankincense
Galbanum
Geranium
German (Blue) Chamomile
Ginger
Goldenrod
Grapefruit
Helichrysum
Hyssop
Jasmine Absolute
Juniper
Laurel
Laurus Nobilis
Lavandin
Lavender
Lemon
Lemongrass
Lime
Mandarin
Marjoram
Melissa (Lemonbalm)
Mountain Savory
Mugwort
Myrrh
Myrtle
Neroli
Nutmeg
Orange
Oregano
Palmarosa
Patchouly OR Patchouli
Pepper, Black
Peppermint
Petitgrain
Pine
Roman Chamomile
Rose
Rosemary
Sage
Sandalwood
Spearmint
Spruce
Tangerine
Tarragon
Thyme
Valerian
Vetiver
Ylang Ylang

The following essential oils are classified as FA (approved food additives) by the FDA:

Balsam Fir, Idaho
Cedarwood
Cistus
Elemi
Fir, Idaho Balsam
Idaho Balsam Fir
Melaleuca Alternifolia (Tea Tree)
Rosewood
Spikenard

To ban any of those would be a huge effort by the FDA or DEA, since they’ve already proven that they are safe for human consumption and given them GRAS or FA status.
 
Off topic here,but I though people should know this info. This applies to cassia only not true cinnamon which is a related species and has only trace amounts of coumarin. Most cinnamon sold in stores is cassia unless it's mexican imported then it's likely Cinnamomum verum.
European health agencies have warned against consuming high amounts of cassia bark, one of the four species of cinnamon, because of its coumarin content. According to the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment, 1 kg of (cassia) cinnamon powder contains approximately 2100 to 4400 mg of coumarin. Powdered Cassia Cinnamon weighs 0.56 g/cc; therefore, 1 kg of Cassia Cinnamon powder is equal to 362.29 teaspoons (1000 g divided by 0.56 g/cc multiplied by 0.20288 tsp/cc). This means 1 teaspoon of cinnamon powder contains 5.8 to 12.1 mg of coumarin, which may be above the Tolerable Daily Intake for smaller individuals. However, it is important to note that the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment only cautions against high daily intakes of foods containing coumarin. Chamomile, a common herbal tea, also contains coumarin.
 
Wow, thanks for all that info, 69ron. But the most obvious question that comes to my mind is, if nutmeg essential oil is legal and is used as flavoring in products, why aren't people getting baked, or least having minor effects from its use in normal foods? You said 0.5ml is a starting dose. That seems like a very small amount to feel effects.
 
SWIM can feel even 0.1 ml of nutmeg oil! Even 1 drop!

It's present in all kinds of foods. I mentioned Coca Cola before. Most large food manufacturers generally prefer herb oils over dry spices because they don't add particles to the texture of their products. Imagine if Coca Cola had pieces of nutmeg floating in it! My god, no one would drink it. If they opted to use ground nutmeg instead of nutmeg oil, they would have to spend a lot of effort filtering out the solid pieces. Rather than spend extra money and time filtering the solids out, they opt for using the oil instead because it's cheaper, and actually more flavorful.

The reason you don't get wasted from eating food with nutmeg oil in it is because they use very tiny amounts, less than 1 drop per serving.

Nutmeg oil is so concentrated that 1 drop is enough to flavor a giant batch of Coca Cola. You're not going to be able to drink enough Coca Cola in one sitting to get effects from the nutmeg oil in it.

Take a look at this site which has a Coca Cola style recipe on it:

en.wikipedia.org

Coca-Cola formula - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

0.71 grams (0.788 ml) of nutmeg oil is used to flavor 1 gallon of syrup which is then diluted with soda water to make 128 bottles of cola. So each bottle of soda contains 0.00615625 ml of nutmeg oil. 1 drop is about 0.08 ml. So that's about 1/13 of a drop per bottle of soda! You'd have to drink 13 bottles just to get a super light effect from the nutmeg oil! I can't drink that much in one sitting.


This talk is making me thirsty. I'm going to get a can of coke 8)
 
69ron said:
mindash said:
about a decade ago i decided to eat an ounce of powdered grocery store spice rack nutmeg, i spent the next four days feeling horrible physically and the only thing that i could even relate to as a high i would describe as that dried out burnt out slowed down feeling you get after you've smoked waaay too much pot over a few hours to the point that you no longer get high u just get impaired. NEVER AGAIN!!! lol
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The powder is pretty worthless. Why bother with the powder? Nutmeg essential oil is 1000 times better and is consistently psychedelic with very few side effects. The old powder often just causes side effects and little or no psychedelic effects because the active psychedelic oils have vaporized away long before the powder hit the store shelves.

The effects you get from the powder are mostly the effects of trimyristin and other toxic non-psychedelic compounds that aren't found in nutmeg essential oil.

Mindash, with 1 ml of nutmeg essential oil, you'll trip FOR REAL, and there will be very few side effects. SWIM would never ingest the nuts ever again. They are horrible. But nutmeg essential oil is nice, comparable to LSD in SWIM's opinion.
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well i did get my hands on some oil (3ml) and dosed it earlier today (i seem to have an unnatural resistance to most psychedelics unfortunately so start low, 3ml apparently is quite large) and did enjoy a high of sorts but nothing id relate to tripping, it actually reminded me greatly of poppy straw tea and a light pot stoning but definitely enjoyable and with almost no side effects aside from some stomach discomfort but that may be due to having not eaten yet today when i dosed, its been 10 hours now and im positive im back to baseline but i deffinitely plan to pick up some more of this stuff soon enough, also got a gram of harmine/harmaline freebase from the same vendor but am having trouble finding any info on dose both orally and sublingually either for basic maoi effects or for full on standalone voyages using just it by itself. thanks for the info man it deffinitely changed my perception on this herb/spice
 
69ron said:
Entheojen said:
It seems strange that you can just buy nutmeg essential oil legally (I'm sure I saw it in a natural food shop), drink it with minimal preparation, have a strong trip and it doesn't seem to get the same level of interest as other psychedelics. Is it as simple as this, or is there some negative side? Why is it not illegal (unless if I'm mistaken and it actually is)?
Click to expand...

Well there are some side effects at higher doses. That one negative, and the other is the 36 hour duration of the trip. But there are many RCs that are banned that aren't nearly as nice as nutmeg essential oil.

The reason it's legal is the same reason salvia was legal everywhere. No one knew about it. Pretty much no one knows about nutmeg essential oil, except a few people into essential oils for aromatherapy, some cooks who cook with essential oils, and some doctors and herbalists here and there, and the few people who’ve actually read this and a few other threads about it.

Most people have no idea there is even such thing as nutmeg essential oil. Its not sold at most grocery stores, whereas nutmeg powder is. It's all about accessibility. People see the powder at the grocery stores, try that, get sick, and never do it again. Nutmeg powder is its own deterrent. The FDA and DEA doesn’t need to get involved because most people who try nutmeg powder never do it again, and warn others not to do it. This is a well known fact.

Less than 1% of the people who try nutmeg are using nutmeg essential oil, the rest are using nutmeg powder, and a few are using fresh nuts. So the vast majority of the trip reports out there are full of side effects, making nutmeg look like a horrible psychedelic, something to stay away from. And this is true for the nuts and especially the powdered nuts. However, most people who try nutmeg essential oil (like SWIM) are pretty happy with the experience.

It’s all about accessibility. If the grocery stores carried nutmeg essential oil instead of powdered nutmeg, then how nutmeg is perceived in the popular culture would be VERY DIFFERENT, and it would probably be illegal.

As is it, no one uses nutmeg oil. If you’ve noticed, whenever I post about nutmeg essential oil, it’s nearly always followed by some unfortunate person complaining about how bad nutmeg powder is and why you should never do it. This is true on all the forums I’ve posted on. Most people completely ignore the fact that I’m posting about nutmeg oil, and just assume it’s the same as nutmeg. They don’t even bother to read my posts. They see “NUTMEG” in the subject and then they feel obligated to warn others about how nasty nutmeg powder is. Yes, nutmeg powder is nasty. There is no question about that. But nutmeg oil is a whole different ballgame.

It remains legal because no one knows it’s 1000 times better than nutmeg powder, except a few people who actually read my posts about it, or who did their own research on it.

People who’ve tried nutmeg and not nutmeg essential oil, are usually very quick to say the oil must not be anything better than the nuts are. People get the idea stuck in their heads that nutmeg is bad based on experience with the powder and refuse to believe the oil is any better. This kind of close mindedness is all over the place. There’s nothing I can do about it. I guess this is a good thing because it keeps nutmeg essential oil 100% legal.
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i deff have to agree with ron on this one, 9 years ago i ate an entire ounce of powdered nutmeg and it was hellish, after some convincing and reading i got a generously sized sample of the essential oil and proceeded to give it a shot and BIG DIFFERENCE i have no complaints about the oil, powder is hell to but the oil is superb. just my 2 cents :)
 
mindash said:
69ron said:
...

It remains legal because no one knows it’s 1000 times better than nutmeg powder, except a few people who actually read my posts about it, or who did their own research on it.

People who’ve tried nutmeg and not nutmeg essential oil, are usually very quick to say the oil must not be anything better than the nuts are. People get the idea stuck in their heads that nutmeg is bad based on experience with the powder and refuse to believe the oil is any better. This kind of close mindedness is all over the place. There’s nothing I can do about it. I guess this is a good thing because it keeps nutmeg essential oil 100% legal.
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i deff have to agree with ron on this one, 9 years ago i ate an entire ounce of powdered nutmeg and it was hellish, after some convincing and reading i got a generously sized sample of the essential oil and proceeded to give it a shot and BIG DIFFERENCE i have no complaints about the oil, powder is hell to but the oil is superb. just my 2 cents :)
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It's good to see someone enjoying nutmeg oil. It's quite a nice experience. It's a shame that nutmeg has such a bad reputation. It's because people use the powder and not the oil. The powder is proven to be more toxic and more unpleasant than nutmeg oil.

The powder contains a few toxins like trimyristin which aren't present in the oil. Trimyristin makes up between 20-25% of the dried powder! Trimyristin is a crappy drug. It's the MAIN drug found in nutmeg powder. Trimyristin in an anxiogenic, or anxiety-causing drug.
 
69ron said:
The powder contains a few toxins like trimyristin which aren't present in the oil. Trimyristin makes up between 20-25% of the dried powder! Trimyristin is a crappy drug. It's the MAIN drug found in nutmeg powder. Trimyristin in an anxiogenic, or anxiety-causing drug.
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What? I've seen trimyristin mentioned as being the main component of nutmeg oil, in the range of >80%. Perhaps that only accounts for oils that yet have to be distilled to remove the trimyristin? Anyways I am very interested in learning more about what toxins in nutmeg really cause all these side-effects. Personally I've never tried nutmeg oil (yet), but I am familiar with how whole seeds ground up and pre-powdered nutmeg feels.
 
Evening Glory said:
69ron said:
The powder contains a few toxins like trimyristin which aren't present in the oil. Trimyristin makes up between 20-25% of the dried powder! Trimyristin is a crappy drug. It's the MAIN drug found in nutmeg powder. Trimyristin in an anxiogenic, or anxiety-causing drug.
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What? I've seen trimyristin mentioned as being the main component of nutmeg oil, in the range of >80%. Perhaps that only accounts for oils that yet have to be distilled to remove the trimyristin? Anyways I am very interested in learning more about what toxins in nutmeg really cause all these side-effects. Personally I've never tried nutmeg oil (yet), but I am familiar with how whole seeds ground up and pre-powdered nutmeg feels.
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Trimyristin cannot be steam distilled; it's a non-volatile saturated fat so it's impossible to steam distill it, so whatever oil you saw must have been solvent extracted (CO2 extracted maybe) and not a steam distilled essential oil. While essential oils are oils, not all oils are essential oils. Trimyristin is a fat and not even an oil. You can’t steam distill fat. Nutmeg essential oil doesn’t even contain traces of trimyristin.

Evening Glory, I know how much you dislike nutmeg based on experiences with the nut itself. I think if you tried nutmeg essential oil, you’ll be surprised at how much nicer it is. Most people who try nutmeg oil find it pleasant. It’s quite the contrary to experiences based on the nut itself. I believe trimyristin is the reason taking the nuts and not the essential oil is so unpleasant.
 
Perhaps, I don't doubt that the oil is much better than the whole nut. Is the duration as long with oil as it is with the whole nut though?
 
The onset is much faster with nutmeg essential oil. Instead of several hours, you can feel it within about 15-30 minutes.

The peak is also much faster. It peaks after about 3 hours instead of the 6-12 hours for the powder.

For a mild trip, the main part of the trip is gone after about 12 hours, but it lingers for at least 36 hours. If the dose is small enough you won’t feel it the next day. Duration is related to dosage. You should give yourself at least 2-3 whole days to devote to the experience if you take a large dose. At smaller doses this is not important, but at higher doses it is.

The duration is the main drawback to the experience.
 
Evening Glory said:
Perhaps, I don't doubt that the oil is much better than the whole nut. Is the duration as long with oil as it is with the whole nut though?
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trust me on this one the oil is a completely different effect and i have to agree once again with ron on everything exceptep duration but that can vary from one person to another and also at the 3ml dose i took i wouldnt really call it so much a psychedelic as i would a relaxant and sedative that basicly not care about anything that was going on around me followed by a very nice nap after 7 hours
 
About to go buy the essential oil and try it. Might or might not report back. Can I just dose sublingually or swallow the oil? Or do I need to buy some capsules?
 
ghrue84 said:
About to go buy the essential oil and try it. Might or might not report back. Can I just dose sublingually or swallow the oil? Or do I need to buy some capsules?
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I don't have the benefit of experience with nutmeg oil, but if it were me, I'd definitely go with the capsules. If you didn't already know, essential oils are nothing to take lightly and some of them can actually harm and even dissolve soft tissues. This may not be the case with nutmeg oil, but I'd guess the taste alone would be prohibitively intense. Might not hurt to have something light on your stomach as well. I would definitely be interested in a trip report if you have luck with it, as my first and last attempt with nutmeg was, like with so many others, attempted with powder from the store and I couldn't even smell the stuff for a couple years afterwards.
 
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