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Rising Star
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Bewakening
Rising Star
And, now I'm in trouble with Dr. lovely Who. Lovely. Hey, it's your forum.
Just for my curiosity, what wisdom are we talking about here?Bewakening said:
Kind regards,
The Traveler
sarek
The world is hollow and I have touched the sky
I'm pretty new to this site, sorry if I'm breaking etiquette, don't know where to ask this. etc. etc.
My friend is currently on what he hopes to be the final stretch of a small Chaliponga extract (about 70-80 grams). He did a pretty standard A/B using white vinegar at pH 4, did about a dozen defats with naphtha, basified with NaOH, did several warm naphtha pulls and threw it in the freezer.
Because he's impatient, he took it out to look at it after only about 8 hours or so, poured some through a filter, saved what had already crystallized out, and put the rest in the jar and back into the freezer. He then had about 100-150 mg of spice on a coffee filter and was very very pleasantly surprised that it was not gooey or oily at all (everything he's read about chaliponga extracts led him to believe he'd end up with some goo), it looks like many batches of spice that he has used (with great success) but it has a faint smell of lye. He skipped any sort of washing step, because he trusted that he was able to prevent any of his aqueous layer from getting into his non polar solution, and now regrets doing so. He put the 150 mg or so back into the naphtha, heated it to redissolve, and he's now baking some sodium bicarbonate in the oven in order to do a polar wash but he's very nervous about it, considering what will already likely be a very small yield.
We've all heard the horror stories of spice disappearing somewhere in the process of doing a polar wash, which he assumes is likely from the pH of the water being too low, too long of exposure to the solvent, or just plain too much water. He has a digital pH meter, so the pH isn't a problem, but he's very nervous about doing this wash.
All of this info leads to his question(s) (I know you guys love having plenty of info when you try to answer questions).
A. What is the real risk of not doing any sort of wash, aside from the smoke maybe being harsh? I've done considerable searching but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the risk of residual lye in your spice. It vaporizes at absurdly high temperatures, but you can apparently inhale the dust of it and still have some harm done. If anyone has a dependable answer, it would be appreciated.
B. I'm limited in the choice of containers to use, and I'm worried about not being able to separate all of my polar layer from my solvent during this wash, due to not having something tall and skinny enough to make it easy. And I don't have any epsom salt to dry my solvent with. Does anyone know any other tricks to solve the problem of ending up with some water in your solvent? I've heard of freeze separation, but I'm worried that if the water stays in contact with the solvent for too long, some of the freebase will salt and migrate into it.
I now realize that my friends name changed to "I" part way through this thread. :?
That's really what we call him. Honest.
My friend is currently on what he hopes to be the final stretch of a small Chaliponga extract (about 70-80 grams). He did a pretty standard A/B using white vinegar at pH 4, did about a dozen defats with naphtha, basified with NaOH, did several warm naphtha pulls and threw it in the freezer.
Because he's impatient, he took it out to look at it after only about 8 hours or so, poured some through a filter, saved what had already crystallized out, and put the rest in the jar and back into the freezer. He then had about 100-150 mg of spice on a coffee filter and was very very pleasantly surprised that it was not gooey or oily at all (everything he's read about chaliponga extracts led him to believe he'd end up with some goo), it looks like many batches of spice that he has used (with great success) but it has a faint smell of lye. He skipped any sort of washing step, because he trusted that he was able to prevent any of his aqueous layer from getting into his non polar solution, and now regrets doing so. He put the 150 mg or so back into the naphtha, heated it to redissolve, and he's now baking some sodium bicarbonate in the oven in order to do a polar wash but he's very nervous about it, considering what will already likely be a very small yield.
We've all heard the horror stories of spice disappearing somewhere in the process of doing a polar wash, which he assumes is likely from the pH of the water being too low, too long of exposure to the solvent, or just plain too much water. He has a digital pH meter, so the pH isn't a problem, but he's very nervous about doing this wash.
All of this info leads to his question(s) (I know you guys love having plenty of info when you try to answer questions).
A. What is the real risk of not doing any sort of wash, aside from the smoke maybe being harsh? I've done considerable searching but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the risk of residual lye in your spice. It vaporizes at absurdly high temperatures, but you can apparently inhale the dust of it and still have some harm done. If anyone has a dependable answer, it would be appreciated.
B. I'm limited in the choice of containers to use, and I'm worried about not being able to separate all of my polar layer from my solvent during this wash, due to not having something tall and skinny enough to make it easy. And I don't have any epsom salt to dry my solvent with. Does anyone know any other tricks to solve the problem of ending up with some water in your solvent? I've heard of freeze separation, but I'm worried that if the water stays in contact with the solvent for too long, some of the freebase will salt and migrate into it.
I now realize that my friends name changed to "I" part way through this thread. :?
That's really what we call him. Honest.
sarek
The world is hollow and I have touched the sky
I guess time gave me my answers (or rather eliminated the need for my question)
I baked some sodium bicarbonate in the oven (works like a charm) and did my wash with the resulting sodium carbonate, mastered the trick of using my medicine dropper as a sep funnel, eliminating the problem of not having the right shaped container, and hopefully was able to clean my solvent up nicely, and stuck it back in the freezer
Turns out having a little bit of water in my freeze precip jar didn't do any harm. I was partially worried that the solution would be so saturated that the dmt would crash out and fall to the bottom before it was cold enough to freeze the water, but I don't believe that happened.
My jar's in the freezer so I can't comment on the product quality yet (did peek a little bit though, looks nice). It's pretty yellow. Looks like the spice everyone used to get before anyone learned how to clean things up. But compared to the oily mess that I've heard of people getting from Chaliponga extracts, I'd say it was a success. So if anyone wants advice on how to do an A/B with Chaliponga leaves: DEFAT DEFAT DEFAT DEFAT DEFAT, and then defat some more. I did probably 12 warm naphtha pulls with about 20-30 mL each time (in about 900 mL of acetic acid solution after soaking about 100 grams of leaves) and it seems to have done the trick. I certainly could have done more but who has the time for that
I baked some sodium bicarbonate in the oven (works like a charm) and did my wash with the resulting sodium carbonate, mastered the trick of using my medicine dropper as a sep funnel, eliminating the problem of not having the right shaped container, and hopefully was able to clean my solvent up nicely, and stuck it back in the freezer
Turns out having a little bit of water in my freeze precip jar didn't do any harm. I was partially worried that the solution would be so saturated that the dmt would crash out and fall to the bottom before it was cold enough to freeze the water, but I don't believe that happened.
My jar's in the freezer so I can't comment on the product quality yet (did peek a little bit though, looks nice). It's pretty yellow. Looks like the spice everyone used to get before anyone learned how to clean things up. But compared to the oily mess that I've heard of people getting from Chaliponga extracts, I'd say it was a success. So if anyone wants advice on how to do an A/B with Chaliponga leaves: DEFAT DEFAT DEFAT DEFAT DEFAT, and then defat some more. I did probably 12 warm naphtha pulls with about 20-30 mL each time (in about 900 mL of acetic acid solution after soaking about 100 grams of leaves) and it seems to have done the trick. I certainly could have done more but who has the time for that
Source_Direct
Rising Star
Hi Nexus
I have been immersing myself in the nexus for extraction help for my friend. He is using Acuminata bark, found a stump that was already chopped clean down (?) and the bark was just hanging off the tree so he literally picked it up with his hands and got himself around 500 grams of bark without having to harm any plants which he was glad with.
This is his 3rd extraction using the dmt handbook. He completed it about 10 hours ago, but some things went wrong.
Details: 3 x 1.5 hour acid cook in ph 4 water and vinegar solution, filtered, combined and reduced further down to about 1.75 L's
Then he used enough caustic soda to turn the red liquid into a darker, almost black solution. Unfortunately the $50 digital pH metre he bought was showing the 200 grams of caustic soda mixed in with a small amount of water to have a pH of 12.1??? It was completely off. He calibrated it many times. Basically he couldn't work out if he used enough caustic soda to get it to a pH of 14 so he used about 150 grams or so. He was a bit worried about not using enough, it seems to be a common problem with the DMT handbook tek?
So then he put it in a hot water bath and added about 75ml (didn't really know how much to use) but he could barely see a layer of shellite separating.
Also the container was not expanding very rapidly any more. So he added another 50 grams of caustic soda (to make a total of 200 grams) and added another 60mls of shellite.
Then after shaking it for a while it separated, siphoned out the bark tea but was only left with about 50 ml's of it???
So where did the rest of the shellite go? Did 2 more pulls with 300mls shellite and each time only about 1/3 of the shellite separated....
That shellite, after 10 hours freeze precip has got some white crystals, probably only about .5 grams, but the shellite has started to finally separate from the solution now, looks like most of it has separated. Whats going on? Not basic enough?
Can he get the rest of the dmt out? Cold pulls? Add more caustic soda?
I have been immersing myself in the nexus for extraction help for my friend. He is using Acuminata bark, found a stump that was already chopped clean down (?) and the bark was just hanging off the tree so he literally picked it up with his hands and got himself around 500 grams of bark without having to harm any plants which he was glad with.
This is his 3rd extraction using the dmt handbook. He completed it about 10 hours ago, but some things went wrong.
Details: 3 x 1.5 hour acid cook in ph 4 water and vinegar solution, filtered, combined and reduced further down to about 1.75 L's
Then he used enough caustic soda to turn the red liquid into a darker, almost black solution. Unfortunately the $50 digital pH metre he bought was showing the 200 grams of caustic soda mixed in with a small amount of water to have a pH of 12.1??? It was completely off. He calibrated it many times. Basically he couldn't work out if he used enough caustic soda to get it to a pH of 14 so he used about 150 grams or so. He was a bit worried about not using enough, it seems to be a common problem with the DMT handbook tek?
So then he put it in a hot water bath and added about 75ml (didn't really know how much to use) but he could barely see a layer of shellite separating.
Also the container was not expanding very rapidly any more. So he added another 50 grams of caustic soda (to make a total of 200 grams) and added another 60mls of shellite.
Then after shaking it for a while it separated, siphoned out the bark tea but was only left with about 50 ml's of it???
So where did the rest of the shellite go? Did 2 more pulls with 300mls shellite and each time only about 1/3 of the shellite separated....
That shellite, after 10 hours freeze precip has got some white crystals, probably only about .5 grams, but the shellite has started to finally separate from the solution now, looks like most of it has separated. Whats going on? Not basic enough?
Can he get the rest of the dmt out? Cold pulls? Add more caustic soda?
Source_Direct
Rising Star
Thanks Cyb for the speedy reply, he did as you said,
he put some salt in and then got the pH meter working, but found that now the pH was 10.5 or around there. Could this be right?
The meter seemed to be correct, it was consistently saying that the tap water is 7.4 which is bang on, but could it be wrong about the solution?
I trusted it because the solution was now back to deep/dark red and not thick at all, so he added the rest of the NaOH to get the pH to (apparently) 11.1, now im doing a really hot bath pull with 250mls of shellite, but its still not separating after 5 minutes.
Is the shellite dissolving into the solution a symptom of too much lye or could it also be because it is not alkalised enough?
Can I just leave the solution for a couple of hours/over night and then siphon it when its cold, will the dmt still be in the shellite? It seems to take some hours for it to fully separate
he put some salt in and then got the pH meter working, but found that now the pH was 10.5 or around there. Could this be right?
The meter seemed to be correct, it was consistently saying that the tap water is 7.4 which is bang on, but could it be wrong about the solution?
I trusted it because the solution was now back to deep/dark red and not thick at all, so he added the rest of the NaOH to get the pH to (apparently) 11.1, now im doing a really hot bath pull with 250mls of shellite, but its still not separating after 5 minutes.
Is the shellite dissolving into the solution a symptom of too much lye or could it also be because it is not alkalised enough?
Can I just leave the solution for a couple of hours/over night and then siphon it when its cold, will the dmt still be in the shellite? It seems to take some hours for it to fully separate
Source_Direct
Rising Star
well, we will soon find out! Thanks for the help mate!
Spike-Ball
Rising Star
I recently attempted the Noman tek with 50 grams of MHRB. (Noman's tek - DMT-Nexus Wiki)
After making the Bark+Water+NaOH solution, and letting it stir for about 90 minutes, there was still some "sludge" like material inside my mixing jar. Is this okay? Should I make effort to prevent this?
Also wanted to ask if heating my Bark+Water+NaOH solution while it is sitting and stirring would be a good idea.
Thanks!
After making the Bark+Water+NaOH solution, and letting it stir for about 90 minutes, there was still some "sludge" like material inside my mixing jar. Is this okay? Should I make effort to prevent this?
Also wanted to ask if heating my Bark+Water+NaOH solution while it is sitting and stirring would be a good idea.
Thanks!
Hello,
I have had 10+ successfl extractions however the last 4 I have done seem like they have worked well as I remove from the freezer and there is loads of white crystals then I pour off the solvent and they seem to melt and leave behind a tiny sticky patch.
What is going wrong it is doing my head in!! Only change I can think is I swapped from petroleum ether to rosonal lighter fluid which I believe others use no problem
Thanks
I have had 10+ successfl extractions however the last 4 I have done seem like they have worked well as I remove from the freezer and there is loads of white crystals then I pour off the solvent and they seem to melt and leave behind a tiny sticky patch.
What is going wrong it is doing my head in!! Only change I can think is I swapped from petroleum ether to rosonal lighter fluid which I believe others use no problem
Thanks
Delta9
D9
Greetings, D9 here! I am very cloudy tonight, as forewarning, so forgive any runaround or sporadic exchange in my case & points. I have made my introduction essay concluding the same thing. Anyhow! On to the matter at hand. I have (with a partner) successfully, one could say.. performed my first ever extraction from Acacia root bark via a hybrid of Marsifold's & a "Be Love" tek found from an external source. We done everything wonderfully until the final steps. Made a few VERY haphazard and crucial errors. We had a supremely wonderful working area, that got sabotaged last minute. Had to vacate everything and transport at a final step (drying after freeze-precip) Well, turns out we had a 5 minute drive to the final destination, after only being able to freeze for about 15 hours. (I know, but it was a subzero 15 degree freezer) Besides that, it was ABOUT 95 DEGREES OUTSIDE, against our knowledge. We tried to make haste.. But in the pursuit I believe we lost quite a bit of yield. Not to mention, what we were left with were a VERY small amount of white crystals, underlaid by a yellow sludge formation. Which we dried, scraped and compiled. This is not what we want, and I wish to further refine this. It appears as such:
[/img] - I know this feels like yet another GOO question.. But I am just in beginning stages of materializing with this stuff and any direct answers will be a great help. The final yield was quite small so I am almost to the point of saying "meh, we shall just enjoy this" - Some say this looks great. I am not sure where to go, any help is appreciated. This is now in the freezer taped up in a glass jar with a dessicant. Thanks to any beings in advance. Cheers! -D9
edit: This is the result of 100g Acacia Confusa rootbark, a thoroughly followed process, but an end result failure in a few steps. There were a few white x-tals. But honestly, how does this appear for a first time? Greater care will definitely be enforced & monitored, next go around.
edit: This is the result of 100g Acacia Confusa rootbark, a thoroughly followed process, but an end result failure in a few steps. There were a few white x-tals. But honestly, how does this appear for a first time? Greater care will definitely be enforced & monitored, next go around.
Attachments
Delta9
D9
mazzar said:
Maz! Greetings! You are dealing with the very same that I dealt with (as described in my post directly prior to this.) Except, our x-tals didn't melt upon pouring the solvent, but upon foolishly taking them for a mandatory transport. What was left was a sticky, next to nothing mess. Slightly dissapointed, we left this to dry for a day. Came to scraping and it compiled as seen in my jar above. Yellowish pasty wax. Some say this is grand product (over 92% DMT if Acacia was used) - But I am still questioning this myself. I used a bit and boy does it pack a PUNCH still. I believe it's still good. Don't take my word, but I'm right there with you. Thanks! ( I believe there are A/B methods abound if you wish to further refine.) To refine & purify, or to just enjoy what is there.. Is my question. Safe travels!
Delta9, DMT doesn't dissapear or evaporate at 95degrees farenheit, at most it would melt, but it would still be there (unless it melted through and fell away from the container or something), the total weight would be the same, and the oil still contains your DMT and it will be equally active. At most, you had a small amount of it turning into DMT N-Oxide, which is also equally psychoactive, quite possibly just metabolizes into DMT in the body (as Shulgin said).
If you want to clean it up further, just recrystallize. Instructions are in the FAQ.
As for 'how does it look', also take a look at the FAQ question 'Is my DMT ok to smoke', specially the link below it, because we cannot tell by pictures, there are other factors you need to take into account.
If you want to clean it up further, just recrystallize. Instructions are in the FAQ.
As for 'how does it look', also take a look at the FAQ question 'Is my DMT ok to smoke', specially the link below it, because we cannot tell by pictures, there are other factors you need to take into account.
Delta9
D9
endlessness said:
Thanks a million Endless! I apologize for the hasty posting without doing more exploring. Was just nearly at wits end and exhausted resulting in seeking a more direct approach. I will be around gathering as much as I can and paying attention. Thank you.
Hi All,
Could you please tell me what other materials could be used for containers?
I'm going to use Cyb's salt tek first and them Max Ion to run a comparison between the two.
I was planning on using all glass though I was curios what out materials may work. I would hope that its obvious that metal is a no no, but I was wondering if some plastics might be alright, such as HDPE or polypropylene.
Ive done some Google and come up wih ldpe/hdpe should be ok with the NaOH. And in my case I would be using heptane it appears that as it is a Aliphatic hydrocarbon HDPE would be the way to go.
Can anyone confirm this my my own personal reassurance and possibly recommend any other options that there may be?
Love and light,
Basics
Could you please tell me what other materials could be used for containers?
I'm going to use Cyb's salt tek first and them Max Ion to run a comparison between the two.
I was planning on using all glass though I was curios what out materials may work. I would hope that its obvious that metal is a no no, but I was wondering if some plastics might be alright, such as HDPE or polypropylene.
Ive done some Google and come up wih ldpe/hdpe should be ok with the NaOH. And in my case I would be using heptane it appears that as it is a Aliphatic hydrocarbon HDPE would be the way to go.
Can anyone confirm this my my own personal reassurance and possibly recommend any other options that there may be?
Love and light,
Basics
Hey durr,
SWIM is looking to extract NN DMT and 5-MeO-DMT from a local Phalaris Arundinacea strain. I would love if some other backyard chemists would give a look at my tek before I attempt it.
1. SWIM has began by collecting, freezing and unfreezing this phalaris strain to attempt to destroy some of that nasty chlorophyll that he extracted by accident in one of his earlier extraction attempts.
2. SWIM will make aqueous solution with the grass and lower its PH to around 4 using either HCL or Na2CO3 (allow to sit for several days)
3. Increase up to PH 12 to produce a soluble 5-HO-DMT.
4. Pull N,N DMT and 5-MeO DMT with Naptha and leave behind 5-HO-DMT, and Gramine
5. Evaporate Naptha and Yield alkaloids.
Any thoughts? More specifically which acid do you believe would work best?
SWIM is looking to extract NN DMT and 5-MeO-DMT from a local Phalaris Arundinacea strain. I would love if some other backyard chemists would give a look at my tek before I attempt it.
1. SWIM has began by collecting, freezing and unfreezing this phalaris strain to attempt to destroy some of that nasty chlorophyll that he extracted by accident in one of his earlier extraction attempts.
2. SWIM will make aqueous solution with the grass and lower its PH to around 4 using either HCL or Na2CO3 (allow to sit for several days)
3. Increase up to PH 12 to produce a soluble 5-HO-DMT.
4. Pull N,N DMT and 5-MeO DMT with Naptha and leave behind 5-HO-DMT, and Gramine
5. Evaporate Naptha and Yield alkaloids.
Any thoughts? More specifically which acid do you believe would work best?
Basics said:
A lot of people use HDPE, in theory it should be fine for naphtha and lye but personally I avoid plastic due to the possibility of plasticizers or similar, even if the container itself doesn't breakdown. Check this thread: Phthalates: Warning to those using plastic containers/instruments in extractions - Health & Safety - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Swimius said:
Na2CO3 is a base, not an acid. You can use HCl or simply vinegar, both should work equally good, vinegar is safer to use.
The rest sounds ok, considering your phalaris has any DMT and 5-MeO-DMT to begin with. But personally I have never tested myself or read a confirmation that 5-MeO-DMT is soluble in naphtha. I'd think so, but can't be sure until I see this information from reliable source or test it myself, and I also haven't read it here in the nexus yet.
