Oh no! Not another 'My brew didn't work' thread. Help!...

[Whatis]

Yep my first brew did not work. And I need your help.

I will talk through what I brewed & how, and what I think went wrong. Hopefully someone can provide a bit of insight. I am a pretty meticulous person, I have never had a problem with the spice. And I'm at a bit of a loss why this did not work.


Materials...

500g red cappi
25g mimosa
Distilled water (The type that goes in cars)
5% Acidity white vinegar



Brewing method

As per the 'All About Aya' thread.

Cappi and Mimosa brewed separately.
Each with a 3 x 3hr boils.
To the cappi I added 5 large tbsp + a bit more for good luck, of 5% acidity white vinegar. Mimosa was boiled without.


At the end of the three rounds of boiling I was left with approx 2L cappi and 1L of Mimosa.
This was reduced down on a gentle boil to 500ml cappi and 250ml mimosa

I then did an 'egg white - tannin removal' to get rid of the nasties in the mimosa.

Final quantities-> 500ml = 500g (Cappi) and 250ml = 50g (Mimosa)

Cappi mid brew:

https://imgur.com/AI4PUJS

Mimosa mid brew:

https://imgur.com/HO2vf1y

Dosing

On Monday I dosed 50ml(50g) of Cappi. Nothing happened so I figured I would just double the dose the next day for my first aya exploration.

Tueday night:
I had 100ml(100g) caapi & waited 15 minutes. Then 50ml(5g) mimosa.
Waited 45 minutes and nothing was happening. So I went on the nexus' chat and Endlessness & Alkan0id kindly talked me through everything.
I redosed 100ml(100g) cappi an hour after the first lot. I was waiting for MAOI EFFECTS. Another hour passed - still nada.
As a final attempt before bed, two hours after the first dose, I had another 100ml cappi and mixed in another 50ml of mimosa for good measure.

Nothing. Some very slight stomach moans just before bed. Felt calm and at ease - but that might have been down to the 3 hr meditation I did to prepare myself.

Over three hours I took 300ml(300g) cappi and 100ml(10g) mimosa,


What went wrong?

I suspect the cappi brew was too weak, and did not inhibit my MAOs.
So why was this?

Perhaps my cappi wasn't shredded enough? - have a look at the picture below. It came in chunks and I smashed these into smaller chunks with a hammer.

Spent Cappi:

https://imgur.com/uf8tGKC

For the final boil I ran out of distilled water and used tap water instead. I don't know if this would have affected anything.

I did not 'boil' the brews. Rather I brought them to a boil and then reduced the heat to a simmer. I don't know if this matters?

Perhaps my cappi is junk and I was sold wood chipping. Alhough I have had very good mimosa from the same place and they seem reputable.


The brews

The brews tasted bitter and horrible - but they were not nearly as horrible as I expected.
But there was hardly any nausea which is perhaps a bit of a clue?

Have a look at the photos. I don't know if these are helpful, but perhaps you can tell something from them. The mimosa brew went a bit 'milky' after the egg white tannin removal.

Cappi brew:

https://imgur.com/xktt8xu

Mimosa brew:

https://imgur.com/WgiUT6O

Any help, comments and ideas are extremely appreciated

 

[○]

Im not entirely sure, but i've never done a tannin removal; i've read that that supposedly makes weaker brews. I leave everything in the drink after it's reduced down; sediment and all down the hatch.

 

[Whatis]

Thanks Tattvamasi

But surely I should have felt something from the Caapi brew? Especially 300g over 3 hours... ?

I think I am going to take the remainder of my Caapi brew and smoalk some freebase to see if the Caapi is indeed doing its job. Perhaps it was a weak mimosa brew all along?

:?

 

[visualvisions]

Hey Whatis. Have been using MH+Rue recently (moving on to Caapi soon), but might be able to offer some tips on the MH brew.

- How comes you didn't use any acid/vinegar with the MH? I believe it helps extract the alkaloids.
- With the egg white wash, credit to Jees for this:

When an egg wash is done fine, you don't loose all power. Be sure the pH is below 6 (better 4 - 5) before adding egg-white, pH rises during egg wash. When the eggs are in the coffee filter, I really squeeze it out hard not to loose liquid. I read that point about dmt-tannate loosing, but practical evidence indicate a very minor loss, next to neglect-able, when done right.

- Here is a good resource for washing https://mycotopia.net/topic/55722-clear-mimosa-tea/
- 3x 50min boils, with an acid, has worked so not sure if you need 3hrs per boil. Also, when 'boiling' I get it to just whispers of steam/water vapour coming off the surface instead of seeing bubbles, is meant to help.

When employing that method, including letting the brew settle in the fridge/freezer overnight, the brew should come out a transparent reddish/brown color. This has produced potent effects with no nausea, so lack of nausea shouldn't be indicative of a lack of potency. How long do you fast beforehand?

Have you had success with the MH from that batch before? If so, it could be that you're not fully MAOI inhibited (I believe that this is the most common cause for duds). A test could be to try Rue potentially (3.5g powdered into gelcaps, followed by a spoon of porridge to get the gut moving, 30mins before drinking MH brew works well!).

Lastly, MH batches seem to vary on the internet - less than 10g doesn't work well for me.

Hope this helps, fellow Nexians feel free to correct me if any of the above is wrong!

 

[travsha]

I cant help much with info about mimosa or egg extractions because I only work with the traditional ingredients.... I did notice a few things that might help though.

First - until you make a good brew I think it is better to keep things simple - I would maybe skip the egg part until you have made other successful brews. If tree bark is too harsh then try one of the traditional leaves used in the Amazon maybe? Or just tough it out? Maybe try the egg thing after you get down the simpler brewing method.

Boil the water. Should be a light boil with plenty of bubbles. You dont want to burn your brew because it will taste bad, but you want the high heat and water agitation from boiling to get the alkaloids out of the caapi.

I also notice you did each wash for only 3 hours... Maybe try a little longer (especially if you arent fully boiling). I do 3 4 hour washes usually...

I brew caapi and chacruna together - one tablespoon of vinegar is enough for a whole big pot (you dont need much). Wont make your brew weaker, but more vinegar means worse taste sometimes...

Could also be that you got poor materials - I have never had this problem, but I have heard a lot of stuff online is pretty low quality... You could always try a different vendor...

Couldnt tell you what mimosa tea is supposed to look like, but your caapi tea looks pretty similar to Ayahuasca I have seen.... 500 grams should have been enough for multiple doses - if your tea didnt work, maybe you could just drink more of it?

Last thing I can think of.... You didnt mention how much water was used, but the more water you have the more effective your extraction is - if the water cooks off during your wash, then add more water! Keep water levels full until you are ready to reduce and do not filter it after you reduce - always filter before only.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Keep water levels full until you are ready to reduce and do not filter it after you reduce - always filter before only.

Uh-Oh!!!!!

Why??

I have reduced some but not fully yet. I have filtered mutilple times.

Froze it, thawed it, siphoned of the top, heated it, filtered it, froze it, thawed it, siphoned of the top, heated it, filtered it, froze it..............

I have not yet fully reduced it. I has always had it in a high amount of water.

I am trying to get ALL the solids out. My goal is after I have journeyed a few times, is to take a journey in a float tank, where there CANNOT be ANY purging.

What have I screwed up? Why?

 

[Whatis]

Thanks for all your responses everyone. Some excellent insights - thank you. I'll do some investigating and report back.

 

[Whatis]

Grizzly - I am guessing that your brew didn't work either.

Keep water levels full until you are ready to reduce and do not filter it after you reduce - always filter before only.

-- I'm not 100% clear in this point either.

I guess one reason could be that a reduced brew would be more saturated, and therefore the goodies are more likely to drop out. Meaning any filtering of a reduced brew might weaken it significantly. If you want no nausea perhaps experiment more with pharma. Some rue and some DMT perhaps?

I filtered my mimosa brew quite a few times - I had heard that it can be extremely unforgiving on the stomach. After a night in the fridge there was layer of gunk that I got rid of. Perhaps this along with the tannin removal made it too weak.

Although I still didn't feel 'caapi drunk' from the other brew, so perhaps they were both quite weak.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Grizzly - I am guessing that your brew didn't work either.

Keep water levels full until you are ready to reduce and do not filter it after you reduce - always filter before only.

-- I'm not 100% clear in this point either.

I guess one reason could be that a reduced brew would be more saturated, and therefore the goodies are more likely to drop out. Meaning any filtering of a reduced brew might weaken it significantly. If you want no nausea perhaps experiment more with pharma. Some rue and some DMT perhaps?

I filtered my mimosa brew quite a few times - I had heard that it can be extremely unforgiving on the stomach. After a night in the fridge there was layer of gunk that I got rid of. Perhaps this along with the tannin removal made it too weak.

Although I still didn't feel 'caapi drunk' from the other brew, so perhaps they were both quite weak.

I don't know yet if mine won't work. I have not tried it yet.

I thought that dimethyltryptamine, harmine and harmaline were watersoluable and would stay suspended it the water while that plant material would fall out.

IF dimethyltryptamine, harmine and harmaline would fall out with the sediment, then I just ruined this batch. I didn't think that was possible.

 

[travsha]

Keep water levels full until you are ready to reduce and do not filter it after you reduce - always filter before only.

Uh-Oh!!!!!

Why??

I have reduced some but not fully yet. I have filtered mutilple times.

Froze it, thawed it, siphoned of the top, heated it, filtered it, froze it, thawed it, siphoned of the top, heated it, filtered it, froze it..............

I have not yet fully reduced it. I has always had it in a high amount of water.

I am trying to get ALL the solids out. My goal is after I have journeyed a few times, is to take a journey in a float tank, where there CANNOT be ANY purging.

What have I screwed up? Why?

If you reduce and filter afterwards you will filter out your actives. If you filter before reducing it's all good.

If you filter it well before you reduce there shouldnt be too many chunks and little or no plant material. Once it is reduced though, any chunks are going to have too many actives for filtering again to make sense - you will lose too much. You gotta power through those ones unless you want to waste it.

I have seen friends have to chew the last bit of Ayahuasca from a big bottle before... Was pretty funny

 

[TGO]

I have seen friends have to chew the last bit of Ayahuasca from a big bottle before... Was pretty funny

Oh my! That sounds gross! I cringed a little just reading that! :lol:

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Keep water levels full until you are ready to reduce and do not filter it after you reduce - always filter before only.

Uh-Oh!!!!!

Why??

I have reduced some but not fully yet. I have filtered mutilple times.

Froze it, thawed it, siphoned of the top, heated it, filtered it, froze it, thawed it, siphoned of the top, heated it, filtered it, froze it..............

I have not yet fully reduced it. I has always had it in a high amount of water.

I am trying to get ALL the solids out. My goal is after I have journeyed a few times, is to take a journey in a float tank, where there CANNOT be ANY purging.

What have I screwed up? Why?

If you reduce and filter afterwards you will filter out your actives. If you filter before reducing it's all good.

If you filter it well before you reduce there shouldnt be too many chunks and little or no plant material. Once it is reduced though, any chunks are going to have too many actives for filtering again to make sense - you will lose too much. You gotta power through those ones unless you want to waste it.

I have seen friends have to chew the last bit of Ayahuasca from a big bottle before... Was pretty funny

I have always kept the brew in a high volume of distilled water.

I filtered threw a fine polyster fabrice, like an UnderArmor t-shirt for the 4 stages of brewing.

After I froze it after that, ran out of time, the following weekend, I saw particulate residue on top and on the bottome, so I decided to filter it again, but I was using coffee filters and they would get too staturated and would not allow liquid to flow through. So I just simmered it again. It started out a very clear burgundy color. The very light tan particle began to start showing up and flowed with the movement of the brew. They bagan to get larger as they bumped into each other until they were one larger mass floating on the top. I filtered that out.

Also, when I simmer or brew, I see this very dark and somewhat shiny layer on the top of the water.

This last time, I let them thaw in the fridge for a week and alot more sediment showed up on the bottom, so I siphoned off the top until I got down to the sediment.

So, my biggest question is this. Can dimethyltryptamine settle to the bottom? I do understand that is a highly reduced brew, that the particles will have a higher concetration of DMT in it through solubable satration. But I a brew with I high volume of water, should I worry about leaving the settled sediment behind?

 

[Godsmacker]

Due to the unreliable alkaloid content of these plants, I tend to perform extractions on batches of plant matter before brewing them for consumption so as to avoid an overdose or underdose. Did you perform an extraction on the caapi and mimosa before consuming as a tea? If so, what was the alkaloid content (approximate) of each one? From what you've said, it may be that your caapi does not contain harmalas (if you don't notice harmalas precipitate from caapi tea when u add NaOH, you may have bunk vine) or that your mimosa's alkaloid content may be less than expected. If you havent done so already, a simple extraction can help you find an answer to this mystery.

Another possible explanation may be that the spirits of ayahuasca may not want you to enter the tryptamine palace at this time in your life. Many journeys with ACRB, MHRB and rue have taught me that the plants have their own plans for you and that not all journeys have the same itinerary. IF the powers that be want you to enter their realm, they will bring you there. If they do not want you there, they will not allow you entry. I had one of the most intense oral DMT experiences of my entire life from 2 grams of rue and 5 grams of MHRB, yet experienced only a very slightly pseudo-psychedelic feeling from 6 grams of rue and 14 grams of mhrb of the same batch. Oral DMT is tricky and will take you on a journey when it thinks the time is right for you to go on one.

I hope these two hypotheses can help you solve your problem.

Happy travels,
-Godsmacker

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Keep water levels full until you are ready to reduce and do not filter it after you reduce - always filter before only.

Uh-Oh!!!!!

Why??

I have reduced some but not fully yet. I have filtered mutilple times.

Froze it, thawed it, siphoned of the top, heated it, filtered it, froze it, thawed it, siphoned of the top, heated it, filtered it, froze it..............

I have not yet fully reduced it. I has always had it in a high amount of water.

I am trying to get ALL the solids out. My goal is after I have journeyed a few times, is to take a journey in a float tank, where there CANNOT be ANY purging.

What have I screwed up? Why?

If you reduce and filter afterwards you will filter out your actives. If you filter before reducing it's all good.

If you filter it well before you reduce there shouldnt be too many chunks and little or no plant material. Once it is reduced though, any chunks are going to have too many actives for filtering again to make sense - you will lose too much. You gotta power through those ones unless you want to waste it.

I have seen friends have to chew the last bit of Ayahuasca from a big bottle before... Was pretty funny

I have always kept the brew in a high volume of distilled water.

I filtered threw a fine polyster fabrice, like an UnderArmor t-shirt for the 4 stages of brewing.

After I froze it after that, ran out of time, the following weekend, I saw particulate residue on top and on the bottome, so I decided to filter it again, but I was using coffee filters and they would get too staturated and would not allow liquid to flow through. So I just simmered it again. It started out a very clear burgundy color. The very light tan particle began to start showing up and flowed with the movement of the brew. They bagan to get larger as they bumped into each other until they were one larger mass floating on the top. I filtered that out.

Also, when I simmer or brew, I see this very dark and somewhat shiny layer on the top of the water.

This last time, I let them thaw in the fridge for a week and alot more sediment showed up on the bottom, so I siphoned off the top until I got down to the sediment.

So, my biggest question is this. Can dimethyltryptamine settle to the bottom? I do understand that is a highly reduced brew, that the particles will have a higher concetration of DMT in it through solubable satration. But I a brew with I high volume of water, should I worry about leaving the settled sediment behind?

I found the answer. Dymethyltryptamine, Harmine and Harmaline are salts that are soluble in water. Salt is soluble in water to the point of saturation, then the excess will drop out. This could happen in an Ayahuasca when the brew is reduced to the point of saturation and beyond, then that which falls out would get filtered out with the particulates.

Keeping the brew is a high volume of distilled water during decanting and filtering would keep the good stuff in solution.

Yes, I just quoted myself.