On Life and Tripping: Psychedelics in a Broad Sense (longish, so read highlights for essence)

[Hyperontosis]

You know, D'Lay, this seems to be mostly about you. It certainly isn't between me and anyone else. It is about you.

I understand all experiences in at least a general way, D'Lay, and my experience with psychedelics may be not anything like yours. How would you know what MY experience are like?

YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE.

None. Not a one.

With DMT? NONE WHATSOEVER. I never claimed to have experience with DMT. When will your rhetoric come down to earth, and stop being obtuse? I'd rather bloviate than be obtuse. I use lots of words, and you don't think they mean anything because you can't get your obtuse mind around them, and then you double up your unqualified phraseology "you have no experience" etc. You can't be taken seriously. I won't presume that anyone here is like you unless they are equally stupid. I'll just assume the majority are not.

And yet you continue to bloviate. It's not an approach that's likely to win you a great many fans around here, but go right ahead and do what you do. I'm sure this is just the beginning.

I have already made some friends, don't judge my future based on your paltry contribution to my present. I'm not here looking for fans, I'm here to share experiences, in whatever way they are found relevent to the parties involved, concerning what the parties will discuss, which will not include you, by your choice, and that is fine with me. Try speaking for yourself in the first person more with your tone, it makes you look like a grown up.

 

[Hyperontosis]

I think i have read further than anyone so far, but I still couldn't finish it... WOW ARE YOU IN FOR A MOTHERFUCKING SHOCK. If you think you are tripping, look no further. It WILL be too much for you if ever you do. And i am sincere when I write this - stay away from this stuff, it is, IMHO, not for you.

Thanks for the wake up call, jbark. I do know that DMT, and Salvia, are far more powerful than Cannibis. I have been reading the reports, the research, seeing the trips, and comparing this data to my vantage, and I do NOT underestimate these things. There is a tendency for the inexperienced to underestimate what they have not experienced, and I don't have that tendency. I know that psychedelic experiences are not all the same, that they vary in type of effect, intensity, and so on. I know the diffences. I don't even know that I will ever try this, but it is still something I want to continue to educate myself about, hence why I joined this forum. I also respect the fact that you don't know me from my initial post (do you respect this fact?) and that therefore you want to make sure I know what is up. I do know. I don't engage in this art because I am bored, merely want to "see what will happen", like to fuck myself up, etc. I'm a serious cultivator of myself, and I'm serious about getting things write, and trying to learn from others' experiences helps me do that.

Please be warned - read no further if you have a thin carapace:

As a former international athlete and a humble psychonaut, I feel qualified in saying that a 2 block adrenaline infused sprint to catch a bus is neither an athletic feat nor anywhere in the ball park next to the ballpark next to the town that has five ballapark's ballpark to even the most insignificant of psychedelic trips; as a writer I must also say that you are in desperate need of an editor, and that while part of me admires you for filling paragraphs about chasing down a bus, the larger part of me can't help wish there was an ounce of content in what you wrote... Please think about what you are writing, and think also of to whom you are doing so. To push the point made here ad nauseum further, would you, in a closed forum, feel comfortable recounting your jaunt to the bus to an auditorium filled with marathon runners, kinesiologists, physiologists and seasoned olympic trainers?

The fact that I have so little experience in terms of "how many times" need not be held against me PER SE. It is not a true marker of the value of experience garenered, and indeed, it sometimes is an indication of being hardheaded. I didn't need much to tell me it wasn't right at the time, and I do important things in my life with my time and myself so that they give me the "perspective" I need to where I don't NEED to fuck with the equipment all the time with heavy chemicals. Don't get all reactionary in your ego on that and assume it says something about you or anyone else. It doesn't. That's the kind of ego trip that will make life miserable for you in a way that no drug or other experience can recover. What I say about me is not an indirect way of saying something about you. That covered, I have reached a level of my experience in life where I want more from my spiritual growth, and I have found that my overall situation has come to provide less and less returns, though I suspect the problem is partly internal (my own wiring) and partly external (the society and culture which have definitely played a massive part of this stunting of my progress). So I'm looking into ways of changing the game that let me come back in and play it better, ways that the aforesaid limits cannot properly clamp down upon. I'm talking about psychedelic medicine of the chemical and internally ingested variety, sir. I know that the other ways of changing the game in a radical way are not the exact same, but that is not an argument for saying that my philosophy of viewing them on a continuum is off base. I am not only saying they are on a continuum, but that this is a non-trival FACT, and is crucial for my devlopment of a psychology which takes results back with me into the world in a way that brings higher and higher returns, regardless of the intensity or type of trip. Indeed, I would rather, key word RATHER, do less than more in this way, but I'm not opposed to doing what needs to be done in this game, as judged by myself and no other. But HOW it is to be done, that's part of what I have come here for. I haven't come here to tell you HOW to go about what you do, or even how you should see your world in any way. I have introduced how I see things, and why I do things, specifically with respect to my attitude towards psychedelic medicines. I don't presume to know anything that I don't know, and nowhere am I guilty of that presumption, though others have presumptuously read it into what I wrote, including you to an extent. Please read with more charity the key parts you had such beef with, and see if you don't find room for a better interpretation, one more consistent with not going out of your way to assume I'm an idiot. If you will do that, I'll show you the same courtesy in the future. Continue to be the sort of person who makes the worse of what someone says or writes, and you can expect I'll see you as beneath the dignity of a response.

Point of Fact: You missed the point in my analogy between the types of trips that normal life offers. You and everyone who read that and replied here so far, has missed the point. If you will kindly show me that you can restate my point without mutilating it through the rhetoric-grinder, and show me that you really understand what I have claimed makes sense to me instead of how your vantage has twisted it up according to the shape of your assumptions and shoulder-chips, then I might be able to help you see what you have missed. Because you did miss it, entirely. This takes into account that you are a former international athlete and a humble psychonaut (but not a humble reader of another's writing, nor a humble presenter of your disagreements with it, which should have begun by carefully rethinking your assumptions, and then failing results there, to continue by politely explaining what you think I mean, just in case it isn't what I mean, because it wasn't. I'm not here to be hazed. I'm here to explain who I am with regard to psychedelics, and to be mindlessly attacked by careless readers)

Sorry to sound so harsh, it's really not in my nature. But the PRESUMPTION is a little mind-boggling. A few tokes here and there of cannabis? While no one here would encourage a pissing contest, your complete inexperience would lead us to expect a strong tone of humility in your post, whereas I daresay the opposite seemed evident in troves...

This is a warm, welcoming, tolerant community, so I welcome you with warm tolerance. Just please skip the rhetoric and take US seriously if you expect the same in return.

Cheers,
JBArk

Don't you think you are the presumptuous one from my point of view, based on what I have explained to you and also explained by way of my replies to D'Lay? And don't you think the rhetoric of overtating and understating your points such as with phrases like "a few tokes", for example, as if that had to do with the response of an individual's nervous system, as if we all reacted the same, and as if the science were just so damned specific as that, and besides the fact that I did more than a few tokes, and the results are what counts, and this all after you say this isn't to be a pissing contest.... you seriously undermine your claims of being in good faith or being circumspect in your attitude.

Warm and welcoming maybe, but not if you and D'Lay and their mindless parrots are examples. In that case I'd have to say "warm and welcoming my ass". But then again, you few don't speak for all, and you don't speak for me, though your response to my writing suggest you'd rather invent my point of view than understand it. I can't say with polite words what I think of you for that, so I won't say it. But I definitely am thinking it.

I will skip the rhetoric, which is most of what you and D'lay have to offer, so I'll skip you and D'Lay. After all, you suggested it. As to the "US" that I will respect, I will respect those who show me enough respect not to twist my words out of their meaning just to vent their pathetic egos.

Cheers to you, too.

 

[Hyperontosis]

That post made me laugh! :d

Probably half the reason he wrote it if he looks down deep enough. Taking flabby pot shots at someone and laughing is always easier than understanding them.

 

[Hyperontosis]

Of course you are right Art, someone who hasn't experienced psychedelics has little to no clue about the psychedelic experience. However, when you say... "then come back and school us all"... I think that is a mistake. No one "schools" people just because they smoked a psychedelic. It doesn't make you a teacher or a reliable source of information. It can delude the fuck out of you. The things you acquire from a psychedelic experience can range from spiritual enlightenment to complete insanity and delusions. Whatever a man or woman using psychedelics says needs to be taken with a grain of salt (the same for people who don't take them, of course.)

I havn't taken DMT, that doesn't mean I'm ignorant about what a psychedelic experience is or is like. I can count on two hands the number of times I've smoked Cannibis, that doesn't mean my experience is paltry. This dude D'Lay can read a book 1000 times and probably get less out of it than I could just reading the highlights, at least judging from the way he has read my writing, with the mind and attitude he used as his equipment. I bet I'll get more "experience" out of my first DMT trip than he's gotten out of all of his put together, and I'm saying that based on the fact that it is who and what you are going into your trips, regardless of how changed in the process, that will define what you get out of them, as well as what they are like in many important ways. D'Lay has no space to judge me, especially on the grounds he has chosen. Him don't like that I use so many words. Him thinks I don't say something him thinks is meaningful. Those types off rebuttals to essays belong on twitter, not in a serious forum. I plainly stated my view on psychedelics and instead of being greeted by intelligence, I have so far been greeted with ignorance on a self-righteousness trip. I'm still waiting for someone with half a brain to say "high" (pun intended that time..) and engage me in something worth talking about instead of shotgun blasting their ego fantasies all over me! :d

Psychedelics don't make you a "good person" or an "intelligent person" just because. There are assassins who take/took psychedelics. There are rapers. There are thieves and there are people that are just plain fucked up in the brain. When someone has a DMT experience, the person KNOWS what it feels and what can possibly be seen. For example, many people say they see entities... so I suppose that it is possible to see entities. Many people say they are real and many people say they are only product of the imagination. Some even defend their position fiercely. No one knows what is really happening.

But D'Lay does lay himself open to being accused of THAT sort of arrogance. I came to find intelligence greet me and got "D'Layed", but only temporarily.

I like psychedelics, and I'm in the initial process of extracting DMT. But I know that these things are not all "good" or all "evil". And I've seen that even DMT-smokers post "treatise and wind bag hypotheses that are just so much unreadable wankitude" in this and other forums. Don't tell me all I need to do is to smoke DMT and suddenly all my shit will make sense and be something reliable or worth reading. Don't feel so special 'cus you have smoked DMT, there are all kinds of clowns out there that have done it also.

You hit the nail on the head here. This is the belly of the beast that has come forth to let me know I'm no knight in shining armor, for God's sakes. THAT is presumptuousness. I haven't done what he claims of me, but he has actually done what you describe here. Plain and simple.

You have touched on the nerve that I was avoiding. I wasn't going out of my way to say that some folks overestimate their specialness, to the point of feeling free to mutilate what others say, digest it willy nilly, and then respond out of their assholes. I don't think his smoking DMT was his excuse though, with all his vaunted experience, but rather it sounds more like a character trait he's had all his life.

 

[Hyperontosis]

With all due respect, Art wasn't asserting this. (I don't believe, anyway). Nor was I. Just the tone of the OP suggested he was "schooling" us, so Art's point was simply if you are to presume to school someone in Karate, do your homework and learn Karate. Then "school" if appropriate.

BTW, glad to hear you are on your first extraction! Keep us posted. You, for example, are someone who has been here a while and exhibit the intelligence, curiosity and humility that most here with experience do. And you make valuable contributions by your probing, unassuming nature. I believe that yours is the attitude Art was hinting the OP adopt.

JBArk

He was living it, whether he expressed it or not. It seems true of him, and to an extent, or you also. Hell, I might just jump on the "tone wagon" and say that both you and D'Lay are guilty of Wankerism. Your loving strokes toward "clouds" are noted, with backhandedness reflected at me by that method, though I think your condescension is beneath his dignity.

 

[Hyperontosis]

Well, my essay has been thoroughly misunderstood by all comers so far. Suffice it to say that if it is read in the spirit in which I truly wrote it, it will be embraced as revealing a broad outlook and open mind with regard to life and to the part of it which psychedelic experience plays. Not all will agree with me, and I don't pretend to have my merits defined by how many agree. I do think that if you can't come up with something tangible to say against something, then you must not understand it, or you must overestimate what you have to say. I've been accused of that, but ususually by those who are guilty of it.

Looking foward to more intelligent responses from more intelligent readers. You don't have to agree with me to be considered intelligent. Here's what you have to do:

Show that you can understand what I'm writing. I don't claim it is the best piece of writing on a formal basis, whether as to grammar or composition, but it is an honest effort given my situation at this time, and it is an honest effort at writing. If you want to whine about the form, find a forum on English composition.

Show that you can restate what you disagree with as I myself understand it, instead of how your kneejerk ego reactions misunderstand it.

Don't use piss-poor rhetoric instead of substantive reasoning.

Don't tell me what you think of me, because I don't give a rat's ass. You don't know me, and until you pretend to know me, I won't assume you are stupid.

I have dignity, I'm not here to be insulted. If you come at me with something, I'll throw it back in your face. If you don't respect me, that's not my concern. You don't know me, including by showing me how poorly you happen to understand what I write.

If I am here to be judged by anyone, it is only by a moderator who has the authority to decide if I am to become a regular member of this forum. I won't be kissing the behinds of disrespectful and trollish would-be hazers or downright trolls, however draped in flags of good-intentions or dutiful reprobations.

Just like with life, and with medicine, if you abuse, you will BE abused. If not directly by me, then some time in the future, perhaps when you go on your "last trip" from which you cannot return and boast of the experience, from which you cannot arrogate yourself above others in spite of your flimsy merits for doing so. Keep it fair with me and I'll keep it fair with you.

So someone give me something worth responding to, or just move on.

 

[Ginkgo]

Looking foward to more intelligent responses from more intelligent readers. You don't have to agree with me to be considered intelligent. Here's what you have to do:

Show that you can understand what I'm writing. I don't claim it is the best piece of writing on a formal basis, whether as to grammar or composition, but it is an honest effort given my situation at this time, and it is an honest effort at writing. If you want to whine about the form, find a forum on English composition.

Show that you can restate what you disagree with as I myself understand it, instead of how your kneejerk ego reactions misunderstand it.

Don't use piss-poor rhetoric instead of substantive reasoning.

Don't tell me what you think of me, because I don't give a rat's ass. You don't know me, and until you pretend to know me, I won't assume you are stupid.

I have dignity, I'm not here to be insulted. If you come at me with something, I'll throw it back in your face. If you don't respect me, that's not my concern. You don't know me, including by showing me how poorly you happen to understand what I write.

Pal, can you seriously not see what is wrong about this quote? First you call us unintelligent for pointing out the fact that you come here trying to preach to the choir without even knowing what you are talking about, then you tell us that we should respect you? I would seriously appreciate some humility from you, because to be honest, I think you are on the wrong side of the attitude line here.

Yes, you did receive some harsh answers, but seriously, what did you expect? You come here talking about psychedelic experiences in a broad sense, while never even having had any real psychedelic experiences. Is it that strange that you then receive what you did? You simply can't know what such experiences are like without having experienced them! This is true for absolutely everything in the world, but even more true to psychedelic experiences, as they are something very, very far from normal conscious reality, even if it includes smoking pot and running to the bus.

You are the newcomer here - if you want respect, I ask for you to show the same. To this time you have not.

 

[rOm]

How sad is it that newbie are brought to bay in such an offensive way...

I don't think Hyperontsis was giving any lesson, it was more as I understood a matter of explaining why - without any chemically induced psychedelic experience whatsoever - he could relate the neurotransmettor we cherish here, on this board.
The OP seem a smart person, and not a troll, so there is no need to push him out this way like he would really offend the way things are generally accepted.

Welcome !!

 

[obliguhl]

before assuming I think smoking this stuff is a GAME.

My point is, that there is no reason for big talk and defending yourself. It seems like you're on a path and this will certainly find support here. You don't have to pose yourself as someone who is experienced if you really aren't. You can have mind opening experiences and "life trips", yes...but you will soon see that it still isn't the same as smoking DMT... after your first extraction.

So stick around and grow.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

...it was more as I understood a matter of explaining why - without any chemically induced psychedelic experience whatsoever - he could relate the neurotransmettor we cherish here, on this board.

But how can you relate to something you have never experienced? It's like that South Park episode where Stan tries to tell Token that he understands what it's like to be black and have someone use the N-word. But, as Token tells Stan, "You DON'T get it;" and how could he? He's never been black, he's never experienced life from that socio-cultural perspective, etc. This is a case where someone who has no idea (literally none, and how could he???? DMT catches even the most experienced psychedelic users completely off guard) is trying to say, "Oh, but I do know, I don't need to have the experience to understand, I do know." This is simply just not true. This is more naive than thinking you can read experience reports and understand what the DMT experience is. Hell, even people who have smoked DMT multiple and not broken through come back to the forum when they have a breakthrough and say " HOLY SHIT, I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THIS MOLECULE REALLY IS AND WHAT IT CAN DO!!!" This whole post was way beyond presumptuous, and I must echo jbark's earlier sentiment that - never have I seen someone use so many words to say so little. If I read 5 of your sentences (as in say, the bus paragraph), I expect something to happen within those five sentences, not for you to rehash and reiterate the same irrelevant infinitesimal detail from 5 different perspectives.

Here's some very simple substantive reasoning that seems to have flown right over your head: You have never done psychedelics (even your cannabis experience, which is a weak, read it, weak psychedelic is incredibly limited). You have come here claiming that you "consider yourself an old pro at psychedelics". To me this is like saying, "Pshhhaw, of COURSE I know how to fly an F-16, I've been a passenger twice in 747's." As an individual who has spent a little more than the last year diving DEEP into the realm of DMT, I take affront to this. Not because of any personal need to have a monopoly on the experience, but because you have put yourself through NONE of the rigor that comes with the territory and are claiming to "get it". Please, until you have the experience, just understand that you "don't get it".


Look man, even if you don't like what I'm saying or how I'm saying it, please read the following excerpt, maybe this will highlight the parallels for you and help you understand why you're getting this reaction:
From the South Park episode "With Apologies To Jesse Jackson :


Stan: I just need to explain things. [walks up to Token, who's finished with the locker and holds only a binder in his right hand] Hey Token. Look, I don't know if you saw Wheel of Fortune last night, but-
Token: Yeah, I was watching with my whole family. And then we saw all the replays this morning in the news.
Stan: Listen, Token, my dad isn't a racist. He's just stupid, all right? He just blurted out the N word, and it's no big deal, okay?
Token: Uh, well, actually it is kindofa big deal, Stan.
Cartman: Ohhhhhhhh?
Token: It may be a mistake, but you don't understand how it feels when that word comes up. So don't say it isn't a big deal.
Cartman: Oh shit here we go! [gets really excited and cuts in between them, yelling] It's on! RACE WAR!!! [goes back and yells at one end of the hall] RACE WAR! RACE WAR! [comes back again and yells at the other end of the hall] Race war is on, everybody! It's going down! Shit is going down! [returns, just itching to see Stan and Token fight]
Stan: Token, my dad wasn't trying to be offensive. Just forget about it.
Token: That's easy for you to say, Stan.
Cartman: [softly] Yeah, come on! Here we go!
Stan: Yeah, but he didn't say it in anger or anything like that.
Token: That doesn't mean I can just be fine.
Cartman: [softly] Race war! Come on! Race war!
Token: If you really think it's not a big deal, then you really are ignorant. That's all. I'm not "fighting" anybody. [turns left and walks away]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Stan: Token! Hey, wait up. [Token turns around] I just wanted to say, I get it now. You know, after that "little person" talk at that assembly the other day, I understand how you feel about somebody saying the N word.
Token: Sooo black people are midgets. [turns around and walks away. At the far end of the hallway Mr. Nelson rounds the corner and walks towards Stan.]
Stan: Dammit!
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Stan: Don't you see, Kyle?? I don't get it! [smiles, then walks up to Token] Token, I get it now. I don't get it. I've been trying to say that I understand how you feel, but, I'll never understand. I'll never really get how it feels for a black person to have somebody use the N word. I don't get it.
Token: Now you get it, Stan. [smiles]
Stan: [smiles] Yeah. I totally don't get it.
Token: Thanks, dude.

 

[Hyperontosis]

before assuming I think smoking this stuff is a GAME.

My point is, that there is no reason for big talk and defending yourself. It seems like you're on a path and this will certainly find support here. You don't have to pose yourself as someone who is experienced if you really aren't. You can have mind opening experiences and "life trips", yes...but you will soon see that it still isn't the same as smoking DMT... after your first extraction.

So stick around and grow.

My point, is that you don't have to read into what I wrote beyond WHAT I wrote. I have no need of posing. I am not "posing" for anyone. I'm exposing my view, the one that seemed most relevant to my interests in psychedelics in the most important way for me. What you wish to read into it involves YOUR fantasy, i.e. that I wish to pose for anonymous electronic others. Why? Why do you presume to know my motivation beyond what I tell you? That's prejudgment on your part. As for "talking big", go read the Daoist story about the little bird and the giant "peng" bird. The latter didn't fly big to impress the former, indeed didn't even notice he was flitting from tree to tree. But the little one, he sure does read presumption into everything "big", doesn't he? Seriously, go read it and learn something. Just because you are in this forum and I am not certainly doesn't mean you can disrespect me so grossly as you have and be so wrong on top of it and yet still expect me to extend you any special respect that you don't deserve, and certainly don't deserve more than I or anyone else. You have NO idea what I'm talking about, PERIOD. Since you don't, you need to learn before you criticize. From my point of view, YOU are the grasshopper, so lay off the "grow, youngling" trip. Shit, I'm probably your elder in more ways than one, I don't know, but you sure as hell don't know who YOU are talking to with that wizened tone, "pal" (I get a lot of "pal" here...).

 

[Hyperontosis]

How sad is it that newbie are brought to bay in such an offensive way...

I don't think Hyperontsis was giving any lesson, it was more as I understood a matter of explaining why - without any chemically induced psychedelic experience whatsoever - he could relate the neurotransmettor we cherish here, on this board.
The OP seem a smart person, and not a troll, so there is no need to push him out this way like he would really offend the way things are generally accepted.

Welcome !!

Hey rOm, thanks for the positive input. It seems that you can see the basic thrust of the situation, and that in this situation, there is simply no excuse for the behavior directed toward me. If I'm REALLY guilty of something, it should show without needless insults and gross twistings of my words or assumptions about my motives or thoughts. After all, if it weren't simply such sorts of overreactions and misinterpretations based on ego-projections on their part, i.e. some sort of chip-on-the-shoulder bull, then they would simply inquire as to my meaning with more clarification per whatever their point is. Nope, they want to assume what they will and just roll with it head on, and even demand 'respect' on top of it. What a laugh I say!! They don't get respect by acting that way, not from me. They just get my well-deserved derision.

 

[kyrolima]

Sorry, Hyperontosis.
I have some sympathy with you. I tought the same in the beginning.
But Psychedelics are not the kindergarten of developement.

They actually can be pretty harsh.

 

[Ginkgo]

From my point of view, YOU are the grasshopper, so lay off the "grow, youngling" trip. Shit, I'm probably your elder in more ways than one, I don't know, but you sure as hell don't know who YOU are talking to with that wizened tone, "pal" (I get a lot of "pal" here...).

You may think or believe whatever you like about any of us. But the fact of the matter is that this is a forum about psychedelics, and a great one at that, and your introduction to it has been to preach to the choir. I absolutely understand where you are coming from, and I do very well understand both your writing and the thought processes behind it. I'm not offended by it at all. What I am offended by, is that when we point out the fact that you have absolutely no clue about what you are talking about, you start waving fingers - calling the answers ego-based and the persons behind them unintelligent.

Such a course of action, which in it very self actually is both ego-based and indeed very unintelligent, will not be welcomed here. You should really just accept what we are saying, because we do know what we are talking about, and you clearly don't - even if you think you do! I must admit I once thought in a very similar way as you, but once I really experienced what psychedelics can do, I was absolutely amazed. Extract some DMT and smoke it or eat a high-dose of mushrooms, THEN write an essay of the psychedelics in a broad sense, and it will be welcomed. Mark my words.

Oh, and yes, you do get a lot of "pal" here, because in the respect of the subjects discussed here, you really are a youngling, a nobbie. In very many other ways you may not be, but you are when it comes to psychedelics, so just accept it and move on!

 

[Hyperontosis]

Pal, can you seriously not see what is wrong about this quote? First you call us unintelligent for pointing out the fact that you come here trying to preach to the choir without even knowing what you are talking about, then you tell us that we should respect you? I would seriously appreciate some humility from you, because to be honest, I think you are on the wrong side of the attitude line here.

First of all I call unintelligent those who "point out facts" which aren't facts. Those who assumed I was "preaching" (more of the rhetorical drivel), "don't know what I'm talking about" (more sanctimonious AND rhetorical drivel), and then demanding respect without giving it (I didn't disrpect someone by stating my view on things, but was disrepected FOR doing so, so I responded in kind, which is to say, not kindly) those are on the wrong side of the intelligence line as I draw it.

Yes, you did receive some harsh answers, but seriously, what did you expect? You come here talking about psychedelic experiences in a broad sense, while never even having had any real psychedelic experiences. Is it that strange that you then receive what you did? You simply can't know what such experiences are like without having experienced them! This is true for absolutely everything in the world, but even more true to psychedelic experiences, as they are something very, very far from normal conscious reality, even if it includes smoking pot and running to the bus.

No shit Sherlock. That's the whole point. "BUT SERIOUSLY", I expected intelligence, and received the grumblings of boxes of rocks. I already DID desribe having had "real" psychedelic experiences, though you presume my Cannibis trips are not that (your erroneous "outsider" opinion). No, it is not strange that I "received what I did". To me not much IS strange. But rather, it is hilarious. This has been "quite a trip". Never had my intelligence insulted by a box of rocks before. Hallucination? But seriously, I didn't say these experiences were the same (for the nth time, it seems I must clarify this to the dense), but actually I do understand the difference between isomorphism and identity, don't you? You don't seem to, because I was talking about isomorphism of experience on a continuum, and you were talking about mistaken identity. Seems you are confused "pal", not me.

You are the newcomer here - if you want respect, I ask for you to show the same. To this time you have not.

Newcomer? You don't SAYYY..... But being an newcomer to a place or event doesn't justify those already present for being assholes. I've shown the respect of writing my view out in a way that I thought was clear enough for a dummy to understand, and instead I have a self-presumed audience of rocks telling me I have no experience and also presuming to tell me what my own thoughts or motives are. Most of you haven't been able to demonstrate putting 2 and 2 together to get 4, because it seems no matter how many times I have explained my essay's "tough spots", it falls on deaf and dumb ears. I respect intelligence, nothing less. If you lack in this faculty, do not blame me for it. Sure, you may use your authority to block me, persuade others of me in a bad light, they may even think exactly like you (would save me the need to repeat myself, just cut and past what I said to you onto their rants and confusions). Seriously, you guys are assbackwards in just about everyway.

 

[jbark]

Hyperontosis,

Look, it's quite simple : by redefining what a psychedelic is, and thus claiming psychedelic experience, you are rubbing people the wrong way. You may not intend it, but saying that strolling down the street, or chasing a bus, or merely living is psychedelic (when you have never tried a true psychedelic) is misrepresentative, and, i must say, false, if we are to consider consider the consensus definition.

If I show up with an orange on an apple farm and tell the farmer it is an apple, I must expect him to disagree, and perhaps even expect him to treat me with derision...

You can call an orange an apple, or a peach or a banana, but to most it will remain an apple no matter how hard you insist. I am being polite and respectful in pointing this out, because you still don't seem to get it, despite nearly every poster here saying it in one way or another.

We do welcome you, just please be careful with your terms in a community that has only words to hear you with, judge you by and welcome you with.

And have the humility to say that you have no psychedelic experience, because you can insist all you want, but - and I mean this as respectfully as possible - you really don't...

JBArk

 

[jbark]

How sad is it that newbie are brought to bay in such an offensive way...

I don't think Hyperontsis was giving any lesson, it was more as I understood a matter of explaining why - without any chemically induced psychedelic experience whatsoever - he could relate the neurotransmettor we cherish here, on this board.
The OP seem a smart person, and not a troll, so there is no need to push him out this way like he would really offend the way things are generally accepted.

Welcome !!

Hey rOm, thanks for the positive input. It seems that you can see the basic thrust of the situation, and that in this situation, there is simply no excuse for the behavior directed toward me. If I'm REALLY guilty of something, it should show without needless insults and gross twistings of my words or assumptions about my motives or thoughts. After all, if it weren't simply such sorts of overreactions and misinterpretations based on ego-projections on their part, i.e. some sort of chip-on-the-shoulder bull, then they would simply inquire as to my meaning with more clarification per whatever their point is. Nope, they want to assume what they will and just roll with it head on, and even demand 'respect' on top of it. What a laugh I say!! They don't get respect by acting that way, not from me. They just get my well-deserved derision.

Can't you take a second and look in the mirror? From the beginning you have looked outward and defended yourself. Maybe, just maybe, people are telling you something here. Maybe, just maybe, your post was flawed and misrepresentative. Maybe, just maybe, you could admit a small part of the blame for all this?

I mean geez, you're just getting angrier and angrier and resorting to name-calling and baseless insults... if you truly want to be part of this community, don't call us boxes of rocks!:shock:

I mean what could your agenda possibly be if you are not willing to listen, but instead claim to be grossly misunderstood and proceed to hurl vitriol?

Please reassess your stance.

JBArk

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Hyperontosis,

Look, it's quite simple : by redefining what a psychedelic is, and thus claiming psychedelic experience, you are rubbing people the wrong way.

EXACTLY!!!!! Until you take a true psychedelic, how can you comment on how psychedelic weed is? You have no perspective (aside from waking life) from which to compare it. This would be like an Eskimo saying, "My god, 4.5°C is blistering hot," having never left the North Pole. Come on down to the equator man, and see how hot things get. :twisted:

 

[Hyperontosis]

I'd like to say something without it being a reply to someone's nonsense. My experiences are none of your business unless I tell you what they are, and until that day, you have no clue. You have no clue what or who I am except for what I tell you, and even then you cannot understand, and I guarantee you this as a blind man who has never seen blue cannot understand blue no matter how much I describe it to him. For all you know, I've had "DMT" trips walking around about once a month for the last few years, strange as you may think something like that is. You think there's something wrong with that if it did happen? More wrong to be inflicting it on yourself then if you don't naturally do it, and worse still if you NEED something like that, because then you are less "normal" than someone who has it naturally. That was a hypothetical story for making a point about what counts as "knowing someone else's experience" and also for pontificating on what constitutes "normal", just in case that was lost on the next dude who wants to show me what it's all about and what I don't get. I wouldn't want you to be in a state of confusion by mis-comprehending what I just wrote (is that a Bush-ism? Almost is).

When I tell you my experience, you either take it at face value, or you about face. I'm not about to indulge someone who questions my authenticity. I say what is true for me, and it has nothing to do with what you expect, what you want, what you need, what you believe, what you like. You can explain those things to me politely if you think I need to know that, and if you are not coming on like a gorilla throwing his fecal frustrations at me, I'll listen. I'm not demanding you agree with me, or even understand me, but don't expect "respect" by showing me your ass after failing to understand what you are criticizing and spraying your ego-grafitti all over it. Please...

I've seen a few gems of good sense on this site, I've read a lot of reports that point out that if these DMT experiences are worth much, then you guys should have known better than to play this game. You could have just been polite and quoted a part and asked me what I was saying there in other words, but no, you had to show your asses. Is that fun? If it's that fun, then don't complain. If wanted to show your asses while getting respect, SURPRISE!!!! Doesn't work that way. That's the fundamental attitude line that you have crossed. Think that you're hot shit because "you've been there" etc? HAHA!!! I ask you "where have you really been"? Can you tell me that, special ones of the hubris-ridden collective? No, you can't. You don't know WHAT you have done to your brain, or yourselves, and from what I've witnessed here, you haven't done anything impressive.

Like they say, garbage in, garbage out. As "clouds" pointed out, you don't get a medal on your chest for doing DMT and then proclaiming your experiential superiority to someone. I'd add that you espectially don't if on top of that you show what a dimwit you are in barking at his essay like a dog behind a fence. You could have overcome your urge to vent and just asked me what I meant about what you presumed to be offended about, and you might have had an explanation served up to you on a golden platter. Instead, you pulled the "I'm already in" asshole card. Worth it? If it was worth it, stop complaining and let the intelligent people have their say, the ones who can speak without ad hominem and misinterpretation ad nauseum! (and no I'm not posing, I konw one of you is cherishing the thought that you are someone so special that I pose to you, since I've heard that from just about every numbnut who decided to air out that notion, but you aren't, so do yourself a favor and get over that, you'll be a lot better for it)

 

[SnozzleBerry]

:lol: Smolk moar dmt :lol:

The face value of what you have presented says it all: You don't get it.

Now, here's what I don't get...why are you here? You come to a psychedelic community, presenting yourself to be old hat at something you have admittedly never experienced. If I were to have psychedelic experience while walking around and without administering anything to myself, I would check myself into the hospital to see what's up, because these are NOT the kinds of things I would want to have happening to me with no understanding of why it was going on (this is the same reason you shouldn't dose somebody without their knowledge). Again, I'd advise that you take your own advise; look down at the hand with the finger you are pointing, now...whaddya know???? Three fingers are pointing right back at ya. Just take any real psychedelic (weed is not, do the research, it's also not spelled cannibis, but hey, what are you gonna do?) and then tell us what you think. I bet you'd be shocked at how willing people are to listen, myself included.

Would you tell a professional athlete he has no right to criticize your training regimen or would you accept that his views may be valid, given his experience?

Would you tell an attorney to blow it out his ass when he gives you legal advice or would you trust his experience?

Would you tell a doctor not to carry out a procedure as he planned because you presume to know how to do it just as well or would you accept his operating procedures as a result of his experience?

Would you tell Red Adair how to put out an oil well fire or would you let him follow the protocol he has developed as a result of his experience?

Do you see what I'm getting at?