Oof - Lab Busted in NY

[amor_fati]

I doubt any MDMA is ever cut with mescaline. Maybe cut with 2C-I or something like that, but mescaline, I highly doubt it. That sounds completely made up by the seller.

SWIM has heard of MDMA being cut with mescaline and would imagine that it only occurs in certain areas where mescaline is easy to come by and E is less so. SWIM was sold the E as straight up E, but recognized a quality more so like mescaline than his quality E has been, but too weak to be a decent amount. SWIM could be mistaken, however, as he is not as familiar with the other analogues. It does sound far-fetched, but SWIM wouldn't have considered the possibility if he had not read about it and felt it as such.

 

[endlessness]

but the dosages of mescaline are quite higher than mdma... If someone was going to go through the trouble of using some kind of active adulterant, isnt it more likely that they use some kind of amphetamine instead, or just with something inactive?



I cant imagine someone adding a low dose mescaline to mdma to adulterate it... who would be going through the trouble of extracting loads of cactus just to add a bit of mescaline after having made it so clean and nice, to some mdma and then sell it? Im not saying it cant happen, but I would say the probability is quite small, dont you think?

 

[amor_fati]

SWIM's come to the conclusion that what he read was purely rumor and myth, and has come to the conclusion that it had to be an RC, rather than mescaline, or speed for that matter; SWIM knows what that feels like with MDMA, and actually doesn't mind the combo if the ratios are balanced properly. Those orange smilies were the worst SWIM's ever had.

 

[Xstacy]

DONT SELL DRUGS

QFT

Introduce them to path. Let them take the journey. DMT is not a weekend toy for children, but an enlightening self help tool IMO. Find one's true self and if you dont like yourself, make changes.

 

[MalargueZiggy]

and its the main reason why he will never take ecstasy..because you never know what they put in those damn pills...and they put everything in them..

Just get pure mdma Jorkest. I make a very strong distinction between pills (which I won't touch) and mdma, pills are very speed heavy. Now if it's a question of artificially feeling good (which some ppl have a thing against) that's fine, but I reckon mdma has its place.

--> That link doesn't work any more, what was the gist of it?

 

[Pancho]

... the link is broken...
But, if It is truth about the busted lab, I just have to say that they deserve It for selling our sacrament, and we dont reserve that spice could be considered an evil thing because this foolish drugdealer people....

... Pachamama, take care of us ...

 

[polytrip]

Heroin, cocaine, amphetamines have been made into the monsters they are because of prohibition. All of these things can and were used safety before prohibition. Heroin has virtually no negative health effects the dangers arise from not knowing what you are taking (adulterants) not knowing the dosage, and not have access to clean needles and safe honest information. before prohibition there were just as large of a heroin using population yet none of these problems existed.. minimal overdoses, didn't interfere with social life, and work. These people didn't steal. They had access to clean safe pure drugs and methods of ingestion they ahd no problems and lead normal productive lives just like caffeine addicts then and today. Addiction is the only issue however this can be effectively dealt with like any addiction to alcohol, caffeine or nicotine. All of these things need to be regulated as this is the only way we can effectively control, price, purity, availability... These things will allow us to minimize any negative effects. Whereas prohibition maximizes these dangers and creates many new ones. Not to mention the crime rates.

For heroin this may be partly true, although a few weeks of subsequent use may already result in a mild addiction, and a few months of use in serious addiction.
For cocaine, crack, amphetamine and methamphetamine though, i have to disagree. I am very glad those substances are illegal and i am very glad that governments do whatever is in their power to stop or prevent the spread of those substances.
The use of these chemicals not only leads to self-destruction at some point, it also causes extreme and agressive behaviour.
Especially in combination with alcohol.
There is a 1=1 relation between the use of these substances and serious violent crime's that are not related to the drug trade, but purely by psychotic reactions.
Whereever there is an atmosphere of extreme violence, there is cocaine and amphetamines.

If there is a footballmatch or rave somewhere and i see people taking coke or speed, hours before, i know that there is going to be extreme forms of hooliganism. where you have uppers, you'l see violence. You can just safely put all your money on it.

 

[burnt]

^^I think it depends more on the person. SWIM has done all kinds of uppers in SWIMs past and never got violent on them. The most dangerous thing is paranoia and delusion that can be induced by long term amphetamine or coke use. Normal doses aren't any more dangerous then alcohol in SWIMs opinion. SWIM thinks it would be nice if people could obtain limited amounts of cocaine. SWIM would prefer it to drinking sometimes and doesn't see occasional use as a problem at all. Its the illegality that makes addicts so messed up anyway. Coca leaf definitely should be legal.

 

[polytrip]

^^I think it depends more on the person. SWIM has done all kinds of uppers in SWIMs past and never got violent on them. The most dangerous thing is paranoia and delusion that can be induced by long term amphetamine or coke use. Normal doses aren't any more dangerous then alcohol in SWIMs opinion. SWIM thinks it would be nice if people could obtain limited amounts of cocaine. SWIM would prefer it to drinking sometimes and doesn't see occasional use as a problem at all. Its the illegality that makes addicts so messed up anyway. Coca leaf definitely should be legal.

Yes, it depends on the person. But statistically, if you have a spread of amphetamines somewhere, you will always have violence.
Messing with the dopaminergic system, too much has it's consequences.

Besides, everybody (well, let's say 99% of the people)who starts using speed or cocaine on a daily basis will at some point turn psychotic.

It has nothing to do with legality. There are plenty of places where LSD and other illegal psychedelics are used, and you never hear of trouble there. You never hear of someone committing murders or other crimes on LSD, mescalin, DMT or psilocybin.
It's always methamphetamine, crack, speed, cocaine (and to a lesser extent, heroin, wich has more to do with addiction) and alcohol.

Those substances are statistically, too often involved when there's violence, to say that there is no link between violent behaviour and those substances.

And coca leaves are realy a different thing.

 

[endlessness]

polytrip.. it might even be true that statistically there is a higher correlation of violence with certain drugs.. But even so, you said you want to keep those drugs illegal to prevent people from using it. But thats exactly the point A of prohibition arguments, which is shown to be wrong... illegality doesnt diminish use, it increases it, and increases the more dangerous/reckless/uncontrolled use which then in turn increases the violent/problematic behaviors.

I dont like cocaine/heroin/alcohol/etc myself but I rather they were legal and people were properly instructed, like unbiased drug classes in school (but not advertisement on tv like with alcohol), than that they were illegal.

 

[polytrip]

I see what you mean.
I just think it's different for each substance.
I believe that the semi-legal status of cannabis in the netherlands is a good example of good health policy. There are fewer users of cannabis in the netherlands than in many countries with extremely tough policy's.

I think for cocaine , methamphetamine and crack it would not work that way.
In my opinion, those substances are just too dangerous to allow.

A good example of what i mean is that in south-africa, during apartheid, the secret service deliberately distributed those substances amongst the black population (this is not some urban myth, but a fact) to destabilize the community, to ensure that there would be lot's of violence within the black population.

The release of these substances on the market there was actually part of a plan to destroy the community.

 

[MalargueZiggy]

Do you have more information on that polytrip? I'd be quite interested to read a bit more about it.

I pretty much subscribed to Burnt's opinion on prohibition, but now I'm not so sure about meth. I didn't really know that much about it until quite recently (it's not really a bit issue over here). It just seems too addictive and destructive not to be controlled.

But then again once you start controlling one substance based on subjective factors then you start down the road to controlling everything..

 

[ohayoco]

You never hear of someone committing murders or other crimes on LSD

Not forgetting Charles Manson and his followers, then the underground newspapers that touted him as a hero and urged heads to 'kill the pigs'

Those silly people who like meth are going to take the most euphoric thing they can find. If almost everything were legal, but controlled, they could be given easy access to less harmful substances. Maybe when someone came in to a pharmacy for meth, they could only have it alongside a less socially damaging alternative ('buy meth get MDMA free')... soon as they ran out of meth, maybe they'd neck the alternative. Turn them all into pillheads instead. I do agree that there is a case for keeping the most insane drugs out of people's reaches... but who gets to decide what's ok and what isn't? That's the problem, and that's why we're in the awful situation we're in now- because the wrong people are making the decisions on what we should and shouldn't be allowed to take. I expect it's better to let the odd meth addict kill themselves on free drugs if that's what they REALLY want, rather than consign every drug user to the harm of prohibition and foster an illiberal regime.