Oops…BUSTED!!!! Looked Behind the Curtain, and Saw The Unimaginable Horror

[Apoc]

Alright, so, after my glowing Salvia experience that I had a few days ago Reality Confirming Experience!!! I EXIST I EXIST I EXIIIIIIIIISSSST!!!!!!!!!!! - Salvia Divinorum - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus , I decided to explore that state again, and see what there is for me to learn, having already learned so much. What could be next? I wanted to once again metaphorically meld with this inner intelligence that seemed to be the heart of consciousness, seemed to know everything from the inside out, seemed to be everything, and was totally intimate with my life. It was such a benevolent, happy force, I wanted to feel that again and see what it had to say this time. I thought maybe this time if I take in enough salvia, maybe I’ll actually see things like other people describe, though I don't seem to experience on salvia, like have visions that people describe as very vivid. I've always been confused why I don't seem to really "see" anything while I'm on salvia, it's more like becoming very intimate with consciousness, and experiecing powerful revelations.

So, I went to the forest again, did my meditation and exercise thing, when I got exhausted from exercise, I decided to take a break and smoke some salvia. I loaded the bowl and smoked it very carefully, but again I coughed, so didn’t get the full hit. I even coughed right in to the bong and the water sprayed right out the bowl and expelled the salvia. But at least this time I was able to hold in the smoke.

I waited 30 seconds or so, exhaled, and could feel my body start to go. I began to feel that all knowing intelligence within. “Yes! I can feel it, I thought!” This is just a metaphor, not literal, but it felt like my consciousness was beaming up to a spaceship with an alien, or higher intelligence that lived inside my head. This intelligence is the all knowing, all seeing controller, my “true self”, so to speak, which feels more familiar than anything possibly could. But there was a problem. I got stuck half way up. It felt like I was going up, but I didn’t take in enough of the salvia to really get to that zone. Now I was receiving messages from this intelligence, it was saying, “ha ha, you’re almost there, but you’re going to have to smoke a little bit more than that to really reach me”.

So, with wobbly hands I tied to stay in everyday reality as much as possible so I could try to load the bowl for more. As I was doing this, it began to feel completely absurd! This higher intelligence began mocking me. It was laughing at me, “ha ha! You dummy. What are you doing trying to reach that which you already are? Go ahead and try to load your bowl….. you’re not going to find what you’re looking for.”

So there I am, feeling like a fool trying to load this bowl and take another hit, I was half way between the real world and some other form of consciousness. I had the sense that if I smoked more, it would not be good. I had the sense that what I was doing was completely fabricated and absurd, and I had the feeling that if I smoked more, everything was going to become an absurdity. But I just HAD to know. I felt I just had to know what is really going on here, what is this absurdity I'm goign toward? And so, I smoked some more, and fully broke through. I got my wish…. And just as I thought would happen, it was not nice.

So this intelligence started communicating with me. First it says, “OK, you fully made it through. Congrats. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! YAY! (fireworks go off in the head)” The reason it says happy birthday is because when I break through, I have the sense that I have just died, and am being reborn. So it says to me, happy birthday! This is the first moment in your new life.

The intelligence continued communicating….. "now that that’s over…. I have something to show you. You really broke through this time. Now you've done it. Now you've really really done it. You're not going to like what you see here, and once you see it, you won't be able to take it back. You want to know what’s going on in the universe, well here’s the answer…. THERE IS NO ANSWER!!!!!! It was all you. EVERYTHING. Your entire life is not just your life, it’s all that is. There is literally no one here but you. And even you don’t exist. This thing you think of as “your life” isn’t your life….. it’s just some temporary mysterious phenomenon that has no answer or explanation whatsoever, and it’s going to end the day you die, and that’ll be the end of everything. You thought you were going to hallucinate and now you find there is nothing to hallucinate, there is no universe, and no you either. Even this thing you’re interpreting as a “super intelligence” is a fabrication. There is no answer to anything. And that's the absurdity. That there is no answer to anything, that I am somehow the only one here, and yet I am in control of none of it. It doesn't make sense.

This was the greatest anti climax that could be imagined. I just sat there for the trip with the most bemused look on my face. I was like, “ok universe, this really isn’t funny anymore. This just…. sucks. I don't want this knowledge.”. Here I was expecting to come in contact with some super intelligence, and I found that behind that super intelligence is absolutely NOTHING. NOTHING!!!! Just a question and a questioner playing itself out until it ends. Like a wave just forming and crashing and dying until it ends, except the wave is conscious…. And there’s only one wave that ever existed…. and it’s me.

This was horrible. I thought… “no….. no no no no…. not this. Anything but this. This, I remember, is the thing that terrified me so much on my high dose dmt trips, only now it is even clearer to a point where I can articulate it, and kept some memory of it.” I reached a point of absolute solipsism, and thought I had gone permanently insane. I thought, there is no way I could possibly function in the world with the knowledge that anything I see is…. ME. How will I talk to people? Can’t. There was the fear that since it’s all me, my most unimaginable nightmares are going to manifest.

There were no visions of anything as this was happening. And I thought to myself, “what about all the visions I was supposed to see on salvia?. The intelligence communicated with me, “it was all you, you made up that story of what hallucinating is supposed to be like, you made up the whole vision/fractal thing…. there are no hallucinations. All those reports you read about people hallucinating didn’t happen, it was something you made up. And the only reason I allowed you to see those entheogen reports was so that you would be attracted to doing entheogens, and it would bring you to this point right now, so that I could show you what you are. That’s just how this story goes.”

Now, try to understand, I don’t take this message literally. When the intelligence told me, “those reports from other people didn’t really happen” it’s not necessarily saying that there is no one else out there, it is saying that anything I think about anything is merely my own interpretation of how things are. So, for example, when I read reports of other people having cev’s or oev’s, I formed an idea of what that must be like… but it’s just an idea. The reality of the experience is something completely different. My idea of something is only an expectation, a fabricated reality, my idea of what something is…. But not actually experiencing that thing. The intelligence was telling me that anything I see in this world is not objectively real, but an interpretation. Not only is the physical world an interpretation, but also the emotional and mental landscape. Each individual experiences reality differently through their various mental and emotional capabilities. For some people, like agoraphobics, being in a public place is scary thing, but for many others, a public place is a safe, familiar place. The experience of it is completely different from person to person. And I realized that when I look across and see someone I know, I’m not actually seeing that person, I’m just seeing an interpretation, my own interpretation…. There is no way around this.

Now, during the trip I was terrified and felt I could not function with such knowledge. Basically, the core message is much the same received on other trips…. Only more in your face and intense this time. The message was, “you don’t know what life is, you are not in control of what happens, the universe is utterly mysterious, yet in your normal life, you have the choice to make whatever you want out of life.” While on the drug, the message was literal, “there is no one here but you”. But there was also the message, “the freedom you have is to make absolutely anything you want out of your experiences. Anything at all.” Therefore, it is not a doomed feeling. The freedom is that I can choose to believe and act as though other people are out there. And of course that’s what I’m going to do, since if I acted in life as if no one was there, it would extremely bland and probably wouldn’t enjoy life much. So, I’ll play the game of life like everyone else, I’m just a regular guy living my life and that’s it.

There was also a tremendously pressing responsibility placed upon my shoulders during this trip. The responsibility is that since I am the only one who lives my life, there was a very pressing sense that I need to take total and complete responsibility for everything that happens in my life, only I can take responsibility for my mental state, and what I choose to do with this life. It may sound like an obvious responsibility, but there’s somehow more to it. I somehow had the sense that eventually I am going to have to give up EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING EVERYTHING EVERYTHING. Physical self, mental, spiritual, emotional, it’s all going to be either given up, or forcibly ripped apart. I had the sense that my whole life I’ve been avoiding certain things so that I can remain comfortable…. But somehow the power of an all powerful force is telling me that the right thing to do is to give to others, and don’t worry so much about what happens to myself. It’s strange and contradictory, in a sense. Because just a minute ago I was saying that I’m the only one here, and there is no one else. If that were the case, wouldn’t it make sense to only care about myself and not care about others? Somehow, that is not the case, somehow the opposite is true. It’s like the universe is telling me, “you know how this story is going to end…. You know you’re going to have to give everything up. Just give it all up expecting absolutely nothing for yourself”. There is a sense of awe and majesty, like there is some force that is ultimately going to bring me to my knees and I will say, “yes God, I give everything up to your will”.

I realized that giving is something that can only be done if you expect nothing in return. It’s not really giving if you actually want to get something back, if you want to prove some point, or get somewhere, or achieve something. It’s the spirit of giving itself that is important. I also realized that it’s not necessarily the cause that you give to, it’s just your willingness to give that counts. In the past, I’ve kind of taken the attitude, “I suppose it would be good to give to this or that cause…. but I don’t think I will because it’s not really worth it. I don’t want to dedicate myself to that particular cause, it’s not a high enough cause for me, I want to save my giving to something greater”. I realized if you’re willing to give a lot to a cause that might even make just a little difference…. You’ll find it opens a door… it opens a floodgate in which you might be willing to give EVERYTHING at any time, just to fulfill the very idea of giving itself. You may find yourself willing to give to both the big causes and the little causes, instead of finding yourself frustrated, like there’s some big thing you need to achieve, but can never seem to get there. I just have this sense that at some point my heart is going to break open and I’m just going to give and give to express my love and my thanks that I exist, and have been blessed with this life. Something in me is telling me that giving is the best way to thank God. It will only happen when I, or the universe is ready. Right now I’m more like a scared child. Maybe I’ll always be that scared child, and I’ll just have to own up and push that unavoidable fear in to the unknown realm of love and compassion even for the things in life that I don’t like.

So….. ultimately, the message will turn out to be very positive. The thing is, at the time, it was a REAL downer. It was as if my last salvia trip was not a full breakthrough, it was like looking through a semi transparent curtain. I could see partially through the curtain, and on the other side was the true nature of existence. From my side of the curtain, I thought I saw something magnificent and wonderful on the other side, and I wanted to look behind the curtain. But in this most recent experience, I fully broke through, opened the curtain and instead of seeing true self, or something wonderful, I saw absolutely NOTHING. Just a big fat impossible void.

Yet somehow, through the terror of all this, the universe is somehow giving me a key. As if it’s saying…. There is no answer, so you might as well just give and help and spread love. Doing so is life affirming. Doing not is hiding from your life. I guess I was expecting one thing, got another and felt tremendous responsibility.

 

[pau]

familiar with this issue... it certainly is a downer when you are hoping for something more spectacular ... but wait!!!...there is a flip side to it that is very bit as real as the anticlimatic experience you wrote about, in fact, they are the same thing: that uninspiring YOU from the revelation is indeed nothing less than the entire creation and Big Bang, and everything, the energy it takes to blow itself in and out of existence, it's just your PURE MIND...stop thinking about it and just be it/see it...slow down and you see it floating between your eyes and mind on salvia, San Pedro, and presuambly spice too! Some can see it without these aids. So, it's actually AMAZING!

 

[Livingstrategy]

Amazing experience - plenty to integrate after this one

 

[Moose Man]

Excellent report fnog9. You have amazing ability to extract a lot of detail and message out of your salvia experiences. I hear the same firm message you do but much less clear.

High doses leave me feeling like everything is BS, because I was just shown how fake it really is. In a way it helps me see with clearer eyes but I also find myself easily frustrated for a day after.

I like how you described the entity as both mocking you and egging you on to smoke more, this is a common theme for me.

My favorite level is low-med, when everything makes sense but I just can't stop laughing (because they wont let me!).


----

Pesky salvia entity's...

 

[cellux]

The intelligence continued communicating….. now that that’s over…. I have something to show you. You want to know what’s going on in the universe, well here’s the answer…. THERE IS NO ANSWER!!!!!! It was all you. EVERYTHING. Your entire life is not just your life, it’s all that is. There is literally no one here but you. And even you don’t exist. This thing you think of as “your life” isn’t your life….. it’s just some temporary mysterious phenomenon that has no answer or explanation whatsoever, and it’s going to end the day you die, and that’ll be the end of everything. You thought you were going to hallucinate and now you find there is nothing to hallucinate, there is no universe, and no you either. Even this thing you’re interpreting as a “super intelligence” is a fabrication. There is no answer to anything. And that's the absurdity. That there is no answer to anything, that I am somehow the only one here, and yet I am in control of none of it. It doesn't make sense.

Buddhist 101.

I reached a point of absolute solipsism, and thought I had gone permanently insane. I thought, there is no way I could possibly function in the world with the knowledge that anything I see is…. ME. How will I talk to people? Can’t. There was the fear that since it’s all me, my most unimaginable nightmares are going to manifest.

Trust me, it's quite easy after a while. Try to see it this way: there are thousands of yourself all around, each specializing in one particular aspect of the game. Therefore you don't have to do it all "alone". What a relief! You have an idea one day, and you see it manifested by another self the other day. There is no problem of ego anymore. In fact, you can be happy that you don't have to work at all. Just use your imagination - as you always did -, reordering the chaos into these beautiful patterns. This is an art show, brother. (And I just whined in another topic that I have absolutely no sense/way to do art.)

Now, try to understand, I don’t take this message literally.

But you can. I know. It's magical, unbelievable, but it's possible to live in solipsism without losing any of the deliciousness of life. Actually, I think it can be 100% fulfilled only after realizing that it's empty. Buddhist 101 again.

it’s not necessarily saying that there is no one else out there, it is saying that anything I think about anything is merely my own interpretation of how things are.

you are just trying to save yourself from going insane.

well, I think you shouldn't think too much about this now. leave it at that, and wait. your life will slowly bring you to the point where you'll become able to relate to this in a meaningful way. this is the treasure those spiritual aspirants find after digging for decades. it's just a bit dirty so it doesn't look like what it really is.

The intelligence was telling me that anything I see in this world is not objectively real, but an interpretation. Not only is the physical world an interpretation, but also the emotional and mental landscape. Each individual experiences reality differently through their various mental and emotional capabilities. For some people, like agoraphobics, being in a public place is scary thing, but for many others, a public place is a safe, familiar place. The experience of it is completely different from person to person. And I realized that when I look across and see someone I know, I’m not actually seeing that person, I’m just seeing an interpretation, my own interpretation…. There is no way around this.

Man, you really understood it! I know. I feel from your descriptions.

Yes, there is a way around. You can see without filters. But then it's not you any more who perceives.

OK, don't care about my words. They are just words. Carry on with the process, it will take you there (another great thing about existence - if you let it do its thing, it behaves as a vehicle and carries you where you want to go).

The freedom is that I can choose to believe and act as though other people are out there. And of course that’s what I’m going to do, since if I acted in life as if no one was there, it would extremely bland and probably wouldn’t enjoy life much. So, I’ll play the game of life like everyone else, I’m just a regular guy living my life and that’s it.

I made this same decision. From that point on, I'm working on this. I'm building or dreaming together the reality I want to live in.

There was also a tremendously pressing responsibility placed upon my shoulders during this trip. The responsibility is that since I am the only one who lives my life, there was a very pressing sense that I need to take total and complete responsibility for everything that happens in my life, only I can take responsibility for my mental state, and what I choose to do with this life. It may sound like an obvious responsibility, but there’s somehow more to it. I somehow had the sense that eventually I am going to have to give up EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING EVERYTHING EVERYTHING. Physical self, mental, spiritual, emotional, it’s all going to be either given up, or forcibly ripped apart. I had the sense that my whole life I’ve been avoiding certain things so that I can remain comfortable…. But somehow the power of an all powerful force is telling me that the right thing to do is to give to others, and don’t worry so much about what happens to myself. It’s strange and contradictory, in a sense. Because just a minute ago I was saying that I’m the only one here, and there is no one else. If that were the case, wouldn’t it make sense to only care about myself and not care about others? Somehow, that is not the case, somehow the opposite is true. It’s like the universe is telling me, “you know how this story is going to end…. You know you’re going to have to give everything up. Just give it all up expecting absolutely nothing for yourself”. There is a sense of awe and majesty, like there is some force that is ultimately going to bring me to my knees and I will say, “yes God, I give everything up to your will”.

Oh man, I knew you are my kind. I bow down before that which you are speaking about here. And only before that.

Don't make a worry from this. I mean don't drive yourself into guilt because you cannot do this yet (the state of giving you perceived as necessary). It's more than enough to keep this need or requirement to give vivid in your mind. Yes, it's painful. But this is the seed. Take care of it, it will grow into something wonderful. You will get all the help you need.

About having to give up EVERYTHING: yes, I know this fear. I also have it, although it's much less than it used to be. I was always preoccupied with thoughts of becoming a beggar in the underground. Losing everything. I constantly "trained" myself with these fantasies so that I can do it when it comes, that I won't lose it when THAT takes over.

But seeing my life unfolding, it seems there is a force which watches our steps and prepares our future (it may be us as you described, I prefer the dualistic personalization as the God-Me dichotomy until the two really becomes one). And this force is VERY kind to us. I prepared for a battlefield, now I'm living in a garden of flowers. I don't know why. I think I deserve the battlefield.

Maybe I’ll always be that scared child, and I’ll just have to own up and push that unavoidable fear in to the unknown realm of love and compassion even for the things in life that I don’t like.

No, no, no, HE LOVES YOU. He really does. You will see. You don't have to change overnight, he doesn't expect that from you. Sorry, I'm a Christian now, because in your post you grab so brilliantly the essence of why I am a Christian. This devotion that I feel from your post... It's like this fire which burns inside me... There are so few who truly understand what this is, what it means to being driven to even offer yourself as a sacrifice to this... Thing. This fire is what makes it possible to do the Will of God. Let it flame for ever.

OK, I will stop replying because there is just too much wisdom in your post. I don't want to reiterate all of it again. Brilliant, brilliant, my friend.

 

[Apoc]

it’s not necessarily saying that there is no one else out there, it is saying that anything I think about anything is merely my own interpretation of how things are.

you are just trying to save yourself from going insane.

You're right, I was. It was an attempt to justify and save myself from getting too scared.

Maybe I’ll always be that scared child, and I’ll just have to own up and push that unavoidable fear in to the unknown realm of love and compassion even for the things in life that I don’t like.

No, no, no, HE LOVES YOU. He really does. You will see.

I see it now so clearly. I took a dmt trip at the beach today and it all became clear. There is only love. It is God's nature. God doesn't know anything else, it's a one trick pony and it's nothing but love. When the person looks deep enough, they will find for themselves why this, and only this, is true. That's why there was such a strong sensation that I am going to have to give up everything and spread love. That is God's nature, and it's natural to want to be like God. God gives up everything just to fulfil your/its wishes because God loves you so much. God has already sacraficed everything just so you can exist. Thank you God. Full explanation to come at some point.

I can see the appeal of Christianity now. The Christ story. There is only one Christ.... and it's in you. And I love you too.

 

[cellux]

it's a one trick pony

yes. and there is incredible power in that. have you ever been a witness to that? when this oneness (which has no enemy) DESTROYS? I willingly use the word "destroy" here because that's what it does sometimes. This love. The Mahakala nature. I don't want to give the impression of Barbie and Ken discussing these matters in the doll house.

Do you know dark psytrance? What that is really about? :twisted:

For anyone out there, THIS is the Luciferian nature, ready for salvation.

And beware, you pseudo-Christians, because it's coming... ( Now no-one can say I didn't warn them. )

Just to bring some balance to this discussion... And as an attempt to show how far real Christianity is from the facades we commonly identify with it.

 

[picatris]

And beware, you pseudo-Christians, because it's coming... ( Now no-one can say I didn't warn them. )

Just to bring some balance to this discussion... And as an attempt to show how far real Christianity is from the facades we commonly identify with it.

One of the DEEPEST visions of Christianity, and the sole I'm ready to embark, is the one professed at Santo Daime. Finally I could understand what is it all about. In Santo Daime I discovered the Real Nature of Gnostic Christianity. And it is just beautiful.

[and fnog9, great post, great report. know exactly what you mean. - it's hard to keep sanity!]

 

[Phlux-]

"There is no answer, so you might as well just give and help and spread love. Doing so is life affirming."
imo - point of life is to live - streightforeward as that.
2 choices - live positively - live with love - move foreward - towards the ultimate goal and that to me is the universe perfecting itself in every way through trial and error.
- live negatively - live in fear - move backwards - be a stick in the spokes

Thoughts turn to words which in turn become actions - either your own actions or the actions of others - best to keep it positive for you and everyone else.

 

[Apoc]

it's a one trick pony

yes. and there is incredible power in that. have you ever been a witness to that? when this oneness (which has no enemy) DESTROYS? I willingly use the word "destroy" here because that's what it does sometimes. This love. The Mahakala nature. I don't want to give the impression of Barbie and Ken discussing these matters in the doll house.

Do you know dark psytrance? What that is really about? :twisted: For anyone out there, THIS is the Luciferian nature, ready for salvation. And beware, you pseudo-Christians, because it's coming... ( Now no-one can say I didn't warn them. ) Just to bring some balance to this discussion... And as an attempt to show how far real Christianity is from the facades we commonly identify with it.

The message I got recently was that God grants all wishes, even the wish to destroy, and destroy that which is good. Eventually, the wish to destroy inevitably arises. I'm only beginning to contemplate Christiantiy, but now I interpret "original sin" as the very desire that arose to be embodied in the first place. The desire arose to have life, the original sin was the desire to be separate from God, and the wish was granted as segregated life. That's the only reason I could think of why a Christian would say that all humans are sinners.

 

[cellux]

I'm only beginning to contemplate Christiantiy, but now I interpret "original sin" as the very desire that arose to be embodied in the first place. The desire arose to have life, the original sin was the desire to be separate from God, and the wish was granted as segregated life. That's the only reason I could think of why a Christian would say that all humans are sinners.

You will have a wonderful time with Christianity.

My favorite theme on this path is the problem of Evil. There is that "interesting" question of whether Lucifer can be forgiven or not. Very interesting question.

You will find that there is an inner voice in you which helps you understand scripture. Then you will have the nay-sayers who tell you that it's the devil's voice, trying to divert you from the One True Path. My advice: don't dismiss the nay-sayers! Try to find in yourself the insecurity which is invoked by them. If they seem sincere, good people, try to go with them, go to their churches and try to *completely* immerse yourself in what they are teaching. Give yourself in every possible way. Try not to evade the possibility that you may be wrong and they may be right. You will never be able to completely "convert" - however much you try - so just give as much as possible. All of it should go to the "grinder", and only that shall remain which cannot be expelled (remains, against your own will). Take this very seriously. Pray like this: "God, if what I'm experiencing inside is really your Truth, and this voice is really your voice, please keep me in your Truth. But if it is not, please lead me back to your righteous path, with the help of these people or in any other way you can come up with."

If you really commit yourself to this, then you will lose yourself for a while (death) and then, when the time is right, your true self will return to you (rebirth), but without those insecurities that were there before. Then you will easily detach yourself from that particular sect and go forward on your way.

This is just like washing spice after crystallization.

 

[Morphane]

In this post, and your previous one, I was struck by the Stoic theme. I've recently read Epictetus and the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, and gained much from it. Stoicism is essentially a Western form of Buddhism that seems to have developed independently.

The problem with Christianity - mainstream anyway, is it sets the goal - to lose one's self in love - to perform that great sacrifice, but it doesn't give clear instructions how to do so. Loving others isn't easy - for me anyway. Through Stoic teaching I've gotten the idea that one is to approach this state of sacrifical love gradually. The ego is horrified of it as much as the body would be if it was expected to climb Mt. Everest with no training or exercise.

I highly recommend Marcus Aurelius, who writes as a wise and kind father might do to his beloved child.

 

[Virola78]

In this post, and your previous one, I was struck by the Stoic theme. I've recently read Epictetus and the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, and gained much from it. Stoicism is essentially a Western form of Buddhism that seems to have developed independently.

The problem with Christianity - mainstream anyway, is it sets the goal - to lose one's self in love - to perform that great sacrifice, but it doesn't give clear instructions how to do so. Loving others isn't easy - for me anyway. Through Stoic teaching I've gotten the idea that one is to approach this state of sacrifical love gradually. The ego is horrified of it as much as the body would be if it was expected to climb Mt. Everest with no training or exercise.

I highly recommend Marcus Aurelius, who writes as a wise and kind father might do to his beloved child.

Yes, the overlap between stoicism and eastern philosophy is striking. Very usefull when developing a way of life. And so is pragmatism:
Pragmatism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) Don't miss out!


Btw Meditations and Epictetus are avaible online as e-texts.

 

[Apoc]

My favorite theme on this path is the problem of Evil. There is that "interesting" question of whether Lucifer can be forgiven or not. Very interesting question.

Lucifer will be forgiven as soon it fully accepts God, which it will eventually, but who knows when. It is destiny, and returning the motion of the Tao. Remember that it is actually ALL God. Lucifer is God's manifestation. God IS Lucifer. To put it another way, the world is illusory, only Brahman is real, the world is Brahman. There is only ONE destiny. There can only be one because there is only one God, one being, and it has only one destiny, and it is itself.

I don't know what I'm going to do from here on out. I have this new Christian type understanding of things, at least as a conceptualization.... yet I'm pretty sure a lot of people calling themselves Christians would disagree that I have any understanding of Christianity. And so, I can also see how the whole Christian thing, the whole religion thing has manifested itself in to many nightmares here on earth. I can see it just by looking at history.... as clearly as seeing my own reflection. There has been so much hatred and judgement manifested by the arguing over God. Do I really want to unleash that kind of power out in to the world? Do I really want to propogate this monster that's been reproducing for centuries?

People out there saying to other people, "NO! You don't get it! That's not the God I'm talking about!", and all the while they're not realizing they're talking to THEMSEVES! In Christian terms, it's like saying we are all brothers (and sisters). They think they're trying to convince someone else, to convert someone else, not realizing that other person IS them. That's the absurdity of it. They're talking about the same God, and to the samer person because there there is only one, there is no possible way anyone could be talking about a different God. It seems that the words "God", and "Christ" and truth are extremely powerful words, and people fight over them. I am beginning to wonder if the very desire to be saved, the desire to have eternal life and heaven, is the work of Lucifer itself, as ITS way to survive. God allows everything. Everyone is already saved.... though already doomed as well. For the fate of each being is the fate of every other being, they all share the same fate. There is only one. What will be the message that I send out in to this being? I don't know yet.

It's so funny, I've actually come to see DMT represent the spirit of God, and Salvia as the spirit of Satan. lol. It's a harsh teacher man. Oh well... every lesson is important. I could not have comprehended any of this without my experience. I realized that Satan isn't just smarter than me, it's infinitely smarter than me. It knows everything about me, my worst fears and my greatest desires, it knows everything from the inside out. There is no way that I can outsmart Satan, all I can do is no longer be tempted by its power, and its threats. Learn to always say no to Satan, and only say yes to God. And learn to recognize the difference between Satan and God. God is completely benign, God is all loving, and will allow you to make any choice. Satan is a screaming beast that will do anything to survive, he won't accept ANYTHING excpet his own survival. Satan will become furious if you try to resist him, he'll threaten you, he'll threaten to make you permanently insane, he'll threaten to destroy you and the world, threaten to send you to hell forever. Many people give in to that fear and indulge Satan's threats. It's up to me to turn from that and just say, "no Satan, I won't be swayed by your threats of fear anymore, or tempted by your promises for earthly pleasures. I only listen to God now. Goodbye."

By the way, what is washing spice? I'm still kind of a noob.

 

[antichode]

All beleif is blind, a pathless contradiction absorbed by self

Learning to watch the mechanics of ones self on every level from moment to moment, is the beginning of true love in ones life... To live with love and go peacefully is the real nitty gritty of it all

What an incredible introduction you just had :d

Great thread!

 

[cellux]

I am beginning to wonder if the very desire to be saved, the desire to have eternal life and heaven, is the work of Lucifer itself, as ITS way to survive.

You have a marvelous capacity for insight.

I realized that Satan isn't just smarter than me, it's infinitely smarter than me. It knows everything about me, my worst fears and my greatest desires, it knows everything from the inside out.

Book recommendation time again: "The Master and Margarita" by Mikhail Bulgakov

And now to the gist of it:

There has been so much hatred and judgement manifested by the arguing over God. Do I really want to unleash that kind of power out in to the world? Do I really want to propogate this monster that's been reproducing for centuries?

Why, could you do that? I mean, seriously, after these experiences, could you attack someone because he/she is on a different point of view as you are? I think when one had a true experience of God, this becomes impossible.

My approach to this is that of healing, as a tool in the hands of God. I feel that if I can re-establish my direct connection to God, then through me - as a transmitter, a channel - He can reach those people who are still separate from Him. That's the reason for work, and that is also the reason for my immense joy. You know, sometimes I also have this feeling that it's inevitable. That however strong the machine seems, the Light of God will eventually break it up - just like the living grass breaks up dead concrete when it's growing from the underground.

This is my Faith. And this faith makes it possible to be gentle. You will see: only those have to fight who have something to defend. As you are with Him who is the only one, you have nothing to defend. Therefore you will be naturally righteous and compassionate. That's all coming forth from Faith.

The only enemies are our temptations, which are ever-present while we are in flesh. The Christian framework is a kind of tool to navigate in this dangerous territory. The idea of self-sacrifice, the death/resurrection ritual, the "Let Your Will, Not Mine, Be Done" are all there to help us evade the traps. With these, ANY obstacle can be removed (especially the death/rebirth of Christ on the cross, once you really get what happened there, you will be invincible).

About the various sects of Christianity and the war between them: if you feel the call, just go there and speak from your heart. You will not be just one voice from thousands. You will be the voice of coming home. You will be able to heal the wounds, to rejoin that which was separated. Perhaps you will even be able to give interpretations of scripture that will open their eyes to the truth of God. You see? You don't have to choose a camp. The time of camps is over. It's reunion time (again).

By the way, what is washing spice? I'm still kind of a noob.

Just like me. There are several ways. One of them is to pour sodium-carbonate on your spice crystals. This removes any residual lye that may have remained on them after the extraction process. It's an act of cleaning, of making it pure.

 

[Apoc]

There has been so much hatred and judgement manifested by the arguing over God. Do I really want to unleash that kind of power out in to the world? Do I really want to propogate this monster that's been reproducing for centuries?

Why, could you do that? I mean, seriously, after these experiences, could you attack someone because he/she is on a different point of view as you are? I think when one had a true experience of God, this becomes impossible.

Well, it's not that I'm worried about attacking someone, or someone attacking me.... but it's people attacking other people. I look at history and see them fighting and attacking each other, and know that is MY fate. Do I want to propogate that? Jesus really did "die for our sins", and more deeply than most people know..... for he is every person who has been attacked by the very person attacking in his name! Every person who has been attacked in the name of the cross IS the cross. And the attacker has no idea. Once the attacker realizes that the one they are attacking is THEIR fate, they realize their cross, and their inescapable burden. The attacker knows that the millions of creatures that have been killed and murdered is THEIR fate, and they know it is inescapable because they can see it has already happened. Jesus has already been crucified and millions killed in his name, trillions of lifeforms out there killing each other, and it seems to go on forever. That's your fate, it is inescapable. The nail of the cross is knowing that it's not just your personal life, or your personal salvation that's on the line here, it's the fate of every person and every sentient being. The cross is knowing that doomed fate must be willingly accepted before the gates of heaven open, the suffering of every creature must be accepted by you ALONE, as God's will. The FREEDOM of the Cross is knowing that doom is not actually a burden, but an invitation to heaven, an invitation to God's love, an invitation to FINALLY forgive, to forgive every rotten thing that's ever happened, and finally say, "Yes, God, I accept your will". No one will really get this unless they go to an extremely deep place inside themselves and find why this must be true.

But.... I feel the faith as well. The right words will come. I'll figure it out, I guess I'll figure out the right things to say and to the right people, only the people who are ready, and begin to learn which ones are ready, which ones truly seek. I'm going to reach people, and spread this love. And they're going to think I'm special, and as soon as they do, I'll be able to convince them that what they see as special in me was really them the whole time, and then THEY will spread that message and it will continue spreading out. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks mate.

Edit: On the other hand, I can also see how the language of Christianity makes it much easier to reach people. I don't know if I could go to a Buddhist place and talk about Brahman in the sam way. It seems like many people attracted to Buddhism, at least in the west, just want to meditate and relax, they don't want the burden, they don't want the Cross. There's something about Christians, they understand the sacrafice. If a lot of Buddhists are like I was, the very reason they turned away from Christianity was all that scary talk, and what seemed like self righteousness, so I sought out meditating in a forest alone, and came to Christianity only when I was ready. Oh my God! I can't believe it, I can finally call myself a Christian. I can see it, the whole story playing out as the universe. It's the ONE and only story there is. Ever since I was a boy and forced to go to church, I thought there is no way I will never, ever, EVER be Christian. It seemed so beneath me, how could any intellectual person believe it? I guess I wanted mystery, I didn't want to KNOW. Importantly though, I also know that Christianity is just a word.

 

[magickpencil]

Lucifer will be forgiven as soon it fully accepts God, which it will eventually, but who knows when.

Reading this, I was struck w the memory of this quote from Appendix of VALIS by Philip K Dick:

47. TWO SOURCE COSMOGONY: The One was and was-not, combined, and desired to separate the was-not from the was. So it generated a diploid sac which contained, like an eggshell, a pair of twins, each an androgyny, spinning in opposite directions (the Yin and Yang Taoism, with the One as the Tao). The plan of the One was that both twins would emerge into being (was-ness) simultaneously; however, motivated by a desire to be (which this One had implanted in both twins), the counterclockwise twin broke through the sac and separated prematurely; i.e. before full term. This was the darker Yin twin. Therefore it was defective. At full term the wiser twin emerged. Each twin formed a unitary entelechy, a single living organism made of psyche and soma, still rotating in opposite directions to each other. The full term twin, called Form I by Parmenides, advanced correctly through its growth stages, but the prematurely born twin, called Form II, languished.

The next step in the One's plan was that the Two would become the Many, through their dialectic interaction. From them as hyperuniverses they projected a hologram-like interface, which is the pluriform universe we creatures inhabit. The two sources were to intermingle equally in maintaining our universe, but Form II continued to languish toward illness, madness, and disorder. These aspects she projected into our universe.

It was the One's purpose for our hologramatic universe to serve as a teaching instrument by which a variety of new lives advanced until ultimately they would be isomorphic with the One. However, the decaying condition of hyperuniverse II introduced malfactors which damaged our hologramatic universe. Also, the teaching function was grossly impaired, since only the signal from the hyperuniverse I was information-rich; that from II had become noise.

The psyche of hyperuniverse I sent a micro-form of itself into hyperuniverse II to attempt to heal it. The micro-form was apparent in our hologramatic universe as Jesus Christ. However, hyperuniverse II, being deranged, at once tormented, humiliated, rejected and finally killed the micro-form of the healing psyche of her healthy twin. After that, hyperuniverse II continued to decay into blind, mechanical, purposeless casual processes. It then became the task of Christ (more properly the Holy Spirit) to either rescue the life forms in the hologramatic universe, or abolish all influences on it emanating from II. Approaching its task with caution, it prepared to kill the deranged twin, since she cannot be healed; i.e. she will not allow herself to be healed because she does not understand that she is sick. This illness and madness pervades us and makes us idiots living in private, unreal worlds. The original plan of the One can only be realized now by the division of hyperuniverse I into two healthy hyperuniverses, which will transform the hologramatic universe into the successful teaching machine it was designed to be. We will experience this as the "Kingdom of God."

Within time, hyperuniverse II remains alive: "The Empire never ended." But in eternity, where the hyperuniverses exist, she has been killed—of necessity—by the healthy twin of hyperuniverse I, who is our champion. The One grieves for this death, since the One loved both twins; therefore the information of the Mind consists of a tragic death of a woman, the undertones of which generate anguish into all the creatures of the hologramatic universe without their knowing why. This grief will depart when the healthy twin undergoes mitosis and the "Kingdom of God" arrives. The machinery for this transformation—the procession within time from the Age of Iron to the Age of Gold—is at work now; in eternity it is already accomplished.

 

[ragabr]

fnog9, thank you very much for sharing this. You've eloquently described this deep realization - welcome.

 

[Apoc]

Lucifer will be forgiven as soon it fully accepts God, which it will eventually, but who knows when.

Reading this, I was struck w the memory of this quote from Appendix of VALIS by Philip K Dick:

Philip K. Dick. I've heard of that name before. I always thought it was a fake name. lol. That does sound very similar to what I said, I think I will give Phil a read. Thanks everyone who has suggested these things I should read. I will read them.

And also, as Dick suggests, the perverted one will not be healed, and doesn't know it's sick. It will only accept God when it is completely broken, destroyed, and will no longer be able to resist God, realizing that God loved him all along. However, one must be extremely careful with this language. Tell a group of people that Satan must be destroyed, and what will they do? They'll go about killing people, making enemies of the hethens, maybe even kill themselves to try to kill Satan within. Who knows what they'll do. Just look at history and see all the kinds of things people have done. Or on the other hand they'll just think you're nuts. Satan? You idiot, Satan's not real, they'll say. But I agree, Satan is just a representation. Satan represents a certain spectrum of existence, and it's condensed down to one word, Satan. Hopefully, I'll find the right language without polarizing people.