Im sure quite a few members have tormented their periaqueductal grey in the way described.
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opiate withdrawal- latest perspectives on its biology
- Thread starter corpus callosum
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Im sure quite a few members have tormented their periaqueductal grey in the way described.
It seems that pro-inflammatory cytokines are relevant to both habituation and withdrawal; its unknown presently whether or not using anti-inflammatory agents will modify the process significantly.
SpireCatalyst
Rising Star
So if it did affect the process significantly wouldn't it be necessary to maintain a regimen of anti-inflammitorys just as often as the opiate/opioid use?
It would be nice to believe that taking a little bit of, say, ibuprofen with your opioid of choice would render the risk of a habit forming essentially zero.But this is not the case in practise.Pro-inflammatory cytokines can be of many types and many of the more 'obscure' ones can be reduced with pretty hardcore agents such as are used in ailments like rheumatoid disease, psoriasis etc.These agents tend to be pretty toxic in their own right.
Complicated things are opioids, and this article simply sheds a new light on the fact that the full details of their mechanism of action(s) is not fully known.
IIRC, taking a very low dose of naltrexone with each dose of opioid would be more efficacious in preventing tolerance (and ? perhaps addiction).
Complicated things are opioids, and this article simply sheds a new light on the fact that the full details of their mechanism of action(s) is not fully known.
IIRC, taking a very low dose of naltrexone with each dose of opioid would be more efficacious in preventing tolerance (and ? perhaps addiction).
SpireCatalyst
Rising Star
Gotcha. Naltrexone nulls the euphoric part of opiate use tho right? As is buprenophine? Suboxone? At least in habitual users?
ntwhtyouknw
You do not have to see alike, feel alike or even t
Corpus wrote: IIRC, taking a very low dose of naltrexone with each dose of opioid would be more efficacious in preventing tolerance (and ? perhaps addiction).
Careful ingesting opioid aganoist with antagonist, it can cause some pretty severe withdrawl like symptoms when they are taken together.
I know methadone and subxonone together can cause some issues.
Careful ingesting opioid aganoist with antagonist, it can cause some pretty severe withdrawl like symptoms when they are taken together.
I know methadone and subxonone together can cause some issues.
ntwhtyouknw said:
The doses of naltrexone Im referring to are ultra-low dose.
Heres an interesting paper:
Paradoxical Effects of the Opioid Antagonist Naltrexone on Morphine Analgesia, Tolerance, and Reward in Rats
Opioid agonists such as morphine have been found to exert excitatory and inhibitory receptor-mediated effects at low and high doses, respectively. Ultra-low doses of opioid antagonists (naloxone and naltrexone), which selectively inhibit the excitatory effects, have been reported to augment...
I have gone through opiate withdrawals before. I was addicted to IV opioid/opiate use for about two years, it's been almost three since I got away from them. I still sometimes struggle with the ways it changed my brain chemistry. They are anything but enjoyable. It was hell for a week straight. Nobody in my opinion should have to go through it. It was the worst I've ever felt in my entire life imo. Good luck to anyone experiencing these horrible symptoms.
MomentOfTruth
Astro-Travellin
Amen, Hostilis. Please avoid these substances at all costs. If you start coming into contact with people that consistently have these type of narcotics then my best advice is to stay away from them and delete their number. Save your life before you ruin it.
opiates are the :twisted:
which makes me even more sick about the billions of profits being made by big pharma while the drug war wages on as strong as ever.
"YOU ARE FREE TO DO AS WE WE TELL YOU!!" - Bill Hicks
opiates are the :twisted:
which makes me even more sick about the billions of profits being made by big pharma while the drug war wages on as strong as ever.
"YOU ARE FREE TO DO AS WE WE TELL YOU!!" - Bill Hicks
I've been an opioid addict for 10 years. Five years of relapsing and recovering on full agonists: oxycodone, diacetylmorphine (H bomb), hydrocodone, and of course lets not foget methadone... and five long fucking years on Suboxone (buprenorphine).
Once I got off and started juicing fresh produce and eating superfoods, and started low dose naltrexone infusions... One 50mg pill, cut down to 4 pieces. Take a 12.5 mg piece, crush inside 10mL oral syringe, and compound with 10mL of distilled water....keep in fridge. Don't confuse naltrexone with naloxone, the active ingredient in Suboxone, which is not active orally. It's just meant to deter the ignorant who actually believe it serves a purpose. Another topic...I digress.
LDN for post acute withdrawal works best in one-two week on, one week off cycles for some reason. LDN coupled with nutrition and the idea of DMT has eliminated all my PAWS. I say idea because I haven't smoked in months. I still feel the effects from my trip two months ago. As much as I hate pharmaceuticals, LDN may trick your brain into healing. Naltrexone itself is less toxic than aspirn too.
The theory is blocking opioid receptors for a few hours on low doses...I find the ideal dose to be 1mg. Then as these receptors are blocked, your brain compensates by producing a 300% increase in beta-endorphin. You take it right before you go to bed. When you wake up you're normal again. Like a little kid who's never had PAWS. You sing along to music and love life again. LDN is not indefinite, it just speeds up the healing process or may even initiate it in some. Very promising. Unfortunately, not too many doctors know about it.
I'm my own doctor and my body is my temple.
Once I got off and started juicing fresh produce and eating superfoods, and started low dose naltrexone infusions... One 50mg pill, cut down to 4 pieces. Take a 12.5 mg piece, crush inside 10mL oral syringe, and compound with 10mL of distilled water....keep in fridge. Don't confuse naltrexone with naloxone, the active ingredient in Suboxone, which is not active orally. It's just meant to deter the ignorant who actually believe it serves a purpose. Another topic...I digress.
LDN for post acute withdrawal works best in one-two week on, one week off cycles for some reason. LDN coupled with nutrition and the idea of DMT has eliminated all my PAWS. I say idea because I haven't smoked in months. I still feel the effects from my trip two months ago. As much as I hate pharmaceuticals, LDN may trick your brain into healing. Naltrexone itself is less toxic than aspirn too.
The theory is blocking opioid receptors for a few hours on low doses...I find the ideal dose to be 1mg. Then as these receptors are blocked, your brain compensates by producing a 300% increase in beta-endorphin. You take it right before you go to bed. When you wake up you're normal again. Like a little kid who's never had PAWS. You sing along to music and love life again. LDN is not indefinite, it just speeds up the healing process or may even initiate it in some. Very promising. Unfortunately, not too many doctors know about it.
I'm my own doctor and my body is my temple.
ntwhtyouknw said:
Amen to that, brother. I've done this, and the results were unbelievably horrific. This wasn't an ultra-low dose though. Twice I inadvertantly jumped the gun on resuming the medication - first time I believe was 50mgs and the second was 25.
This was many years ago, but both incidents (the first especially) were the most painful withdrawals I ever experienced.
What your describing is called precipitated withdrawal. Naltrexone or naloxone have higher affinity for the same receptors where opioids bind. Buprenorphine actually has a similar binding affinity than naloxone, which is why it is useless for Suboxone and can make surgery tricky for Suboxone patients.
So if your on heroin and take 50 mg of an opioid antagonist like naltrexone, it will instantly remove all the heroin from those receptors and replace it with naltrexone. Low doses of naltrexone, like 1mg or 4mg are effective for a few hours. Even a small dose will cause precipitated WD though.
A 50 mg dose will block receptors all day. It will also block endogenous opiates from entering these protein receptor sites, like beta-endorphin...all day. 50 mg doses serve no purpose but to make people miserable and deter relapse. It's for whimps and people who put their faith in what their doctors tell them. Low dose naltrexone is completely different than taking the whole 50 mg pill.
So if your on heroin and take 50 mg of an opioid antagonist like naltrexone, it will instantly remove all the heroin from those receptors and replace it with naltrexone. Low doses of naltrexone, like 1mg or 4mg are effective for a few hours. Even a small dose will cause precipitated WD though.
A 50 mg dose will block receptors all day. It will also block endogenous opiates from entering these protein receptor sites, like beta-endorphin...all day. 50 mg doses serve no purpose but to make people miserable and deter relapse. It's for whimps and people who put their faith in what their doctors tell them. Low dose naltrexone is completely different than taking the whole 50 mg pill.
Mel Angel said:
I'm aware of what I'm describing, thank you.
This was a very long time ago, and at that time the only thing stopping me from scoring and using on a daily basis was a pill that made it difficult to impossible to actually get high. Eventually I was able to find other reasons, leave all prescribed medications behind me and build a foundation for healthy sobriety. But I do thank you for your snap judgement and categorization of me as a wimp, you sanctimonious junkie asshole.
And by the way... completely opiate free for 16 years now and counting.
Uncle Knucles said:
I think you're over reacting. First, I meant to educate everyone else...not you genius...since you obviously know what precip WD is all about, experiencing it yourself first hand. And 16 years is a long time ago...so you would be excused for taking 50 mg of naltrexone a day. There are better deterrents to stay clean than to crush your spirit with high doses of chemicals people know very little about. Former sanctimonious, junky asshole would be better received. All I'm advocating is doing your research before following your doctors advice blindly when it comes to treating something as fucked up as opioid addiction. And it never ceases to amaze me how opioid addicts, former or active, like to pick fights with each other. Not to seem like a dick, but my approach to the treatment and understanding of opioid addiction is far superior to the bullshit doctors peddle around. All I really want to do is help people who suffer from this fucked up disease. I've only been off Suboxone for 3 months, and I'm basically back to normal. All because I do my homework. I refuse to go through 2 years of PAW...I don't have time to suffer anymore.
Sorry Art, after re reading I realized I didn't really read your post correctly. I just get crazy when it comes to opioid treatments. I'm barely sane right now anyway. It's only been three months since I finished my taper, and I've been living in perpetual misery for a long time. I've only recently been feeling better. You should of seen me a month ago.
SpartanII
Rising Star
ntwhtyouknw said:
It's interesting that magnesium behaves like an NMDA receptor antagonist and seems to reduce tolerance, yet doesn't induce withdrawal. It's crazy, I tell ya!
Differences in creativity among homogeneous groups of students using the Torrance Test of creative Thinking and the Welsh Figure Preference Test - PubMed
Three intact groups of students in Grade 5 (n = 79) were grouped by ability on the Metropolitan Achievement Test and given the Torrance and Welsh tests used to assess creativity. Middle ability children scored higher on fluency, flexibility, and origence than the other two groups.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Development of morphine induced tolerance and withdrawal symptoms is attenuated by lamotrigine and magnesium sulfate in mice - PubMed
I take magnesium citrate before I take my opiate of choice (which has morphine in it). Subjectively, it seems to actually potentiate it, as well as prevent tolerance to a degree.
MomentOfTruth said:
Well, they can be. They have immense value in pain relief, and if used only occasionally with awareness and common sense, some can have therapeutic as well as recreational value (obviously). Just look at Kratom. Wonderful plant medicine. I would not, however, recommend banging H for "therapeutic" value.:roll:
SpartanII
Rising Star
Mel Angel said:
I struggled with opiate addiction for about 10 years, mostly oxycodone/OxyContin, then IV heroin, followed by Methadone. I feel your pain. As I'm sure you know, once you're past the accute withdrawal stage, it gets a lot better, but saving up energy and developing a balanced life physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, and spiritually is so important, whether you have decided to quit for good or use only occasionally.
It sounds like you know your stuff, so I have no doubt you will get better. Awareness is the first step.
No problem. I'm all too familiar with that misery.
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