Oral 5-MeO-DMT sans MAOI: A paucity of evidence

[Morris Crowley]

I was recently reviewing some details on the pharmacology of 5-MeO-DMT and found something rather interesting.

Many people claim that 5-MeO-DMT is orally active without an MAOI. It's in Wikipedia, it's in the Nexus Wiki, it's in many discussion threads on psychoactive drug forums across the Internet.

But what is the basis for this claim? One single experience report where Jonathan Ott reported that 30 mg 5-MeO-DMT without an MAOI (taken in a capsule to preclude buccal absorption) was "decidedly a threshold-level dose." This was published in Shamanic Snuffs or Entheogenic Errhines (2001, pp. 103-104) and in The Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 33(4):403-407.

A search of the Erowid Experience Vault turns up zero reports involving oral 5-MeO-DMT without an MAOI. The only other person I've found claiming to have ingested 5-MeO-DMT without an MAOI is 69ron (see his comments in this thread from 2010), whose reputation is at the least somewhat dubious.

Has anyone else experimented with this route of administration? Or is Ott's single experience (and some rather suspect comments from 69ron) really all we're going on?

 

[Pharmacognosis]

I think it's rare enough no one wants to experiment with high dosage oral tests. It would be nice if someone from Poland or Norway or one of the unbanned countries could settle this matter conclusively, or if someone could get it via bitcoin markets to answer the question. I'm very very interested in this as well, but I don't trust my mail carriers/online anonyminity after having numerous packages pre-opened before receipt.

Oral 5-meo-dmt activity and also the mescaline content of grafted peyote buttons are two questions that have remained unanswered for at least 5 years now, even though a few thousand hobbyists likely have ready access at this point.

 

[۩]

If no one steps up to the plate I will fly to Norway and settle this once and for all by a fjord.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Oral 5-MeO-DMT has some risks associated with it, so I wouldn't go ingesting lots of it, even in the name of science.

Check the Wiki.

Blessings
~ND

 

[nexalizer]

I must've missed a few chapters, why is 69ron dubious/suspicious?

 

[۩]

He was caught using his posts on the forum as marketing for his web shop. When confronted about it he just left and never returned. It became obvious when his little essential oil combinations were all described as "LSD-like" classic 69ron.

 

[universecannon]

The main reason he left was because of the flowing visions THH controversy. Others here showed that this supposed "THH" was mostly just harmine. He basically said we're all lying, then left.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I always wondered where he went.

That's too bad, because he provided some really good organic chemistry knowledge.

 

[BnaiRagshee]

I don't understand, the conversion to thh is really simple if using syrian rue. Did he just lie about how much was in it? Now I want to dig up those threads to see what happened.

 

[Infundibulum]

I don't understand, the conversion to thh is really simple if using syrian rue. Did he just lie about how much was in it? Now I want to dig up those threads to see what happened.

The conversion is simple in theory....but a tad trickier in practice.

What most people do not know is that the conversion can only happen by kitchen chemists (i.e. using easy-to-procure-reagents) only for harmaline, not harmine. But lack of chemical knowledge/experience has made people assume that harmine can also easily reduced to THH...which was exactly the culprit with 69ron's product. And 69ron never used rigorous testing methods for successful conversions (like ms or even TLC) but rather "colour changes" and other arbitrary indications.

The meltdown had 69ron fraudulently changing the disclaimer of his web shop to say that customers may not receive THH because it might degrade to harmine. He also had problem admitting that he, even remotely and even honestly, could have been mistaken about his procedure.

Not to even that dmt was detected in one of his supposed THH samples, which could had jeopardized recipients of his products. The story is worth checking out, but beware, it is a dirty one.

 

[Pharmacognosis]

Today I decided to test the oral dosage for 5-meo-dmt that Jonathan Ott determined that is quoted everywhere. 30 mg is what is all over the net, I tried 35 mg of some old material in a capsule after eating pickled ginger, gingersnaps, and a few slices of fresh root considering the nausea from plugged 5-meo-dmt was some of the worst I've experienced. The comeup was about 30 minutes and it worked sublimely. 35 mg is still in ++ territory, there is no visual distortion, but the euphoria is/was (I'm an hour into it) equal to a strong antidepressant (like 1000 mg SAM-e) or a weak empathogenic roll that is on the sleepy side. I haven't tried 5-MAPB, MDAI, or 5-APDB, but according to trip reports I would equate it with these on the medium dosage range.

On the comeup my ears did get foggy, so there is some blood pressure raise, but otherwise no side effects except for a desire to not think and flow with it. Thinking decreases the euphoria.

I'm thinking this taken orally might pair well with 5-meo-mipt with caution given to possible MAOI interaction. It would bring out the moxy roll alot stronger, making a better tryptamine combo roll. I am concerned about blood pressure with oral 5-meo-dmt, I decided against adding another 10 mg to my dose because I drank 1 cup of coffee before and the adrenaline feels just within safety levels. If anyone tries this combo before me be very careful and have benzos on hand.

 

[Pharmacognosis]

Followup: Effects decline after 1 hour, so 30 min comeup, 30 min peak, 30 min decline to baseline. This dosage did not pierce the bubble, so to speak. No hyperreal sharpness of vision, no overwhelming love/terror rushes. Easily handled and sleepy, but some small body load or pressure from the coffee I think. 5-meo-dmt feels like a full fledged MAOI because I've got similar effects from consuming coffee in conjunction with other MAOIs before, so be careful before and after.

 

[ManicMongrel]

... and also the mescaline content of grafted peyote buttons are two questions that have remained unanswered for at least 5 years now, even though a few thousand hobbyists likely have ready access at this point.

I know this thread is kind of cold but, if you're still haunted by the grafting myth then fortunately it was proven a few years ago that grafted lophophora's have the same capacity for producing active material.

[Estimation of mescaline and pellotine in Lophophora coulter plants (Cactaceae) by means of the oscillographic polarography] - PubMed

Oscillographic polarography has been applied for the mescaline and pellotine estimation. These alkaloids produce in 0.5 N NaOH electrolyte a sharp peak within the cathode region of the oscillogram, each of them showing different potential. It makes possible to estimate them at a concentration of...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"... Plants grown in the greenhouse accumulated the same amount of alkaloids as native plants. Grafting on roodstock which does not produce essential amount of the alkaloids, does not affect the ability of Lophophora to synthesize mescaline and pellotine."

Also there is an aggressive new law that regards all indoles as narcotics in Norway, law enforcement still get fierce arousal from punishing people over here :thumb_dow they just can't resist dragging etheogens into their dirty world

 

[endlessness]

Do you have the original article?

I'm not sure how to understand that quote, if it means that the total quantity is the same (and therefore the bigger grafted ones have proportionately less), or if it means that it produces in same proportions therefore bigger grafted ones have more total content ?

 

[GOD]

" ... and also the mescaline content of grafted peyote buttons are two questions that have remained unanswered for at least 5 years now, even though a few thousand hobbyists likely have ready access at this point. "

The goods arent made in the roots and then pumped upwards they are made localy . The only difference between the grafted one and the not grafted one is / is maybe the " food " mixture and amount that it gets from its host .

That info is available in loads of books and articles for at least the last 40 years .

 

[ManicMongrel]

Beat me to it.

As far as I understand, it means that dry weight of meat from grafted stock are not any less active when compared to dry weight from wild specimen.

Like pointed out above, active alkaloids in plants are often made in the photosynthetically active tissue and stored in special structures to not mess with extracellular pH. Just like morphine is stored in small ducts filled with poppy latex.