(oral) THH + DMT

[SoCal]

wait, what is SWIM confusing with a much longer 4-6 hour experience. is that when one uses THH or harmaline orally and then uses the DMT orally or sublingually instead of smoking it?

 

[Jorkest]

when you take harmalas and dmt orally it will last 4-6 hours...not from smoking...

 

[SoCal]

ah. got it. thanks! For some reason SWIM was under the impression that any use with harmalas had this effect now matter how the dmt is used...

 

[Jorkest]

now eating harmalas and smoking may indeed make it last for a long time..but sublingual harmalas will only make it last 3 times longer or so...but eating them...well..you may be in hyperspace for awhile...

 

[TheNtt]

SWIM loved the way the oral THH felt. sublingually, the effects were much more suddle.
His experience didn't last 4-6 hours though. The DMT was pretty much only noticeable at the peak of it's effects, which lasted a very short time. The effects of the THH seemed to last about 2 hours.

 

[halcyon]

Has anyone done any semi-rigorous assays with salted spice and the three main harmalas? It seems like most SWIY'ers have worked primarily with THH in the 75-200mg range - but can anyone comment on something closer to a cocktail - i.e. spice+2 or more harmalas? Even if the experience was reported to be negative or less something - it would interesting to know. Lets say you have a salt, harmine, harmaline, and THH - what would be the top five ratios that would interest SWIY? Seems to this SWIM that it would likely by primarily THH (say 75%) and possibly the rest of Harmine..

Comments?

Best,
{h}

 

[WSaged]

When you fellas are talking about taking THH sublingually, you are placing the alks under your tongue & letting them absorb into the bloodstream that way, correct?

Doesn't this burn like a mutherfucker?
Or leave lesions in your mouth (even if just tiny ones)?
Does it taste super-shitty-bitter, like DMT does?
Are you using just straight crystals under the tongue, or do you make a liquid tincture, with alcohol or something to aid in absorption?
Can one take Harmine &/or Harmaline sublingually with results just as good, or just THH?

Just finally acquired my separate Caapi alks.
I am planing to combine:
*45-to-60mg DMT fumarate
*45-to-60mg THH
*55-to-70mg harmine
*5-to-15mg harmaline
(all pure extracts) To make quite a pure Pharma-huasca.
All ingredients Combined, should equal one normal-to-good-to-strong dose of Ayahuasca.

I was planing to place the alkaloid crystals into gel-caps for consumption, but after reading the above thread, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to mix the combination of crystals into a glass of water, or orange juice, or tea, or something?

I was also planing to make one group of Aya-caps that combined the DMT-HCL & the MAOIs together in the same cap, to be taken at the same time.
And another group of Aya-caps that have the three MAOI's in one cap & the DMT-HCL in a separate cap, to be taken separately, 20-to-40 minutes apart.

I've read that this recipe for Pharma-huasca has effects that are pretty much identical to a traditional Aya brew, without the nausea &/or vomiting...using gel-caps, with the all 4 alkaloids taken at the same time.
However, I have not tried this myself yet, so I'm only repeating what I read.

I have taken traditional Ayahuasca a number of times, so I will report back on the similarities & differences between true Aya & this "pure" version of Phama-huasca.
I'll also try to test out all of the variations on the theme (as I've got a nice size pile of Harmalas);
alks together - VS - alks separate,
crystals - VS - liquid,
digested - VS - sublingual,
etc - VS - etc...
This will take me a while, but I'll try these all out over the next few weeks/months.

I'll let ya know, how it go,

WS

 

[Dorge]

The effects of the DMT were extremely subtle- SWIM obviously needs a higher dose. He believes most of the euphoria was the THH, which is quite nice. At the peak of the DMT effects (probably around 1hr and 20mins) the room began being stretched, beginning to from a hole in reality. Unfortunately this didn't last but 10-15 seconds, and before SWIM had a chance to dive in, it was gone. From this point on the minor visuals were gone. SWIM was and is still feeling the effects of the THH, although they're fading quick. SWIM got extremely talkative and energetic. He danced around a bit and talked to his girlfriend about how incredible of a combination THH and DMT is.

SWIM garuntees SWIY that if SWIY eats a little bit of sour dough bread say 2 slices of the some good stuff, about 30 minutes after one has taken the alks in a shot of orange juice... that SWIYS session with the THH and DMT will kick in and last longer and be strong with out having to increase the dosage. Take it on an empty stomach but not a day long fast (you will need your strength) and then at the 30 minute point eat some of the bread... it will kick in after words and will be much stronger and longer in duration.

SWIMS FOAF did this after a bum ayahuasca session... he went home early because of no effects and ate some left over fried chicken... and then started TRIPPING HARD for 4 hours about chickens in a nightmare factory being butchered and processed by machines... so be aware of what you eat :lol: food was the first god after all...

 

[Jorkest]

SWIM likes taking between 70-100mg THH plus 40-60mg of harmaline..with 30-50mg of dmt fumarate..THH with harmaline are a nice combo..because the harmaline works as a better maoi..and the THH has more of a chance of getting into the blood stream..which then adds a bit for of its flavor to the trip...SWIM also likes harmaline because it gives it a more dreamy aspect..that is nice in the night time..

SWIM would probably enjoy something like 50mg THH 40mg Harmaline and 30mg Harmine.. but just play around with it..its nice mixing up the flavor of the trip with different combos..and different dosages..

 

[Dorge]

which where the subjective effects of harmine and harmaline by them selves again?
was it harmine was the really sleepy cloudy one and harmaline the slightly more stimulating one with less cloudyness and intoxication and THH being the more stimulating and clear headed of the three?

 

[69ron]

When you fellas are talking about taking THH sublingually, you are placing the alks under your tongue & letting them absorb into the bloodstream that way, correct?

Doesn't this burn like a mutherfucker?
Or leave lesions in your mouth (even if just tiny ones)?

Ha ha ha. You must have tried freebase 5-MeO-DMT. That burns like crazy!

No THH and the other harmalas do not. They are not alkaline enough to cause any tissue damage or burning sensations. Actually they make your mouth numb.

Does it taste super-shitty-bitter, like DMT does?

THH tastes bitter because it's normally in salt form. I believe the freebase form is tasteless.

Are you using just straight crystals under the tongue, or do you make a liquid tincture, with alcohol or something to aid in absorption?

Just place the powdered crystals right under the tongue and hold it there for about 5-10 minutes.

Can one take Harmine &/or Harmaline sublingually with results just as good, or just THH?

They all work very well sublingually. When taken sublingually, THH, harmine, and harmaline are about 10-20 times more potent than when taken orally.

SWIM garuntees SWIY that if SWIY eats a little bit of sour dough bread say 2 slices of the some good stuff, about 30 minutes after one has taken the alks in a shot of orange juice... that SWIYS session with the THH and DMT will kick in and last longer and be strong with out having to increase the dosage. Take it on an empty stomach but not a day long fast (you will need your strength) and then at the 30 minute point eat some of the bread... it will kick in after words and will be much stronger and longer in duration.

Eating stimulates digestion and that will cause the alkaloids to be digested faster. Even the smell of delicious food stimulates digestion, so keep that in mind too. Bitter or foul tastes or smells do the opposite, and they can even trigger nausea.

SWIM likes to eat almost immediately after taking pharmahuasca or ayahuasca. He usually has bread and some juice. This stimulates the digestive system and helps prevent nausea because the body is tricked into thinking something very nutritious is on it's way, so it's less likely to try and eject it.

 

[69ron]

which where the subjective effects of harmine and harmaline by them selves again?
was it harmine was the really sleepy cloudy one and harmaline the slightly more stimulating one with less cloudyness and intoxication and THH being the more stimulating and clear headed of the three?

RIMA (Reversible Inhibition of MAO-A) potency is like this:
harmaline > harmine = THH

Cloudy headed effects are like this:
harmaline > harmine > THH

Sedative effects are like this:
harmaline > harmine = THH

Euphoria effects are like this:
THH > harmine > harmaline

Stimulant effects are like this:
harmine > THH > harmaline

Clear headedness is like this:
THH > harmine > harmaline

 

[Dorge]

very clear thank you...

 

[Dorge]

from TIHKAL....

"
As with harmaline, a number of drug combinations have been studied using harmine as the potential deaminase inhibitor. This is, after all, much closer to the basic structure of ayahuasca, where the plant Banisteriopsis caapi is the native inhibitory component, and it contains much more harmine than harmaline. In measured experiments, the use of harmine in the 140 to 190 milligram range, administered with 35 to 40 milligrams DMT, produced unmistakable effects lasting from one to three hours. Trials with smaller amounts, with 120 to 140 milligrams of harmine and 30 milligrams of DMT produced no signs of central activity at all. Harmine apparently is an effective, although modest, promoter of oral activity of DMT. At least this occurs at levels where it itself is substantially without action, so here it may truly be a facilitator rather than a participant."

so SWIM is curious... all the harmala alkaliods have a synergy with each other correct?
so with harmine in combination with THH what would be an appropriate starting dosage?
with the combination of the two with out the sleepy cloudy effects of harmaline mixed into them, it should be a much more interesting experience...
SWIM was thinking that it would be beneficial to go higher perhaps in the THH then harmine as well...

 

[soulfood]

Does it taste super-shitty-bitter, like DMT does?

THH tastes bitter because it's normally in salt form. I believe the freebase form is tasteless.

Is this true of all harmaloids or just of THH?

I recently attempted the harmala to THH ascorbic acid conversion as theorized by Nobuoni and upon tasting the result I thought a load of ascorbic acid must have come out mixed with the extract as the taste was barely noticeable compared to the bitterness of the original rue extract.

A friend of mine may be testing her own treated extract in the not too distant future when she acquires some DMT. As for me alone the treated extract had no noticeable effects, but I find this with basic rue extract so the even lighter possibly THH would be even more un-noticeable.

 

[69ron]

Does it taste super-shitty-bitter, like DMT does?

THH tastes bitter because it's normally in salt form. I believe the freebase form is tasteless.

Is this true of all harmaloids or just of THH?

I know it’s true for harmine and harmaline, but I’m just assuming it’s also true for THH. THH HCl tastes bitter, but SWIM has never had freebase THH to compare it to.

THH HCl tastes less bitter than harmine HCl or harmaline HCl, but it still tastes quite bad.

Harmine HCl and harmaline HCl look the same. Both are yellow. THH HCl is almost white, sometimes slighlty greenish or tan, but never as yellow as harmine HCl or harmaline HCl.

You can easily make harmine HCl and harmaline HCl from their freebases by dissolving them in vinegar and then adding 10% salt. They precipitate out as fine yellow needles. Their taste is much worse after you do that.

 

[SoCal]

does SWIY swallow the THH that was used sublingually after letting it sit under the tongue for 5-10 minutes?

 

[TheNtt]

does SWIY swallow the THH that was used sublingually after letting it sit under the tongue for 5-10 minutes?

Wait for most if not all of it to be absorbed. SWIM always swallows what didn't get absorbed.

 

[SoCal]

does SWIY swallow the THH that was used sublingually after letting it sit under the tongue for 5-10 minutes?

Wait for most if not all of it to be absorbed. SWIM always swallows what didn't get absorbed.

thanks TheNtt! SWIM is thinking about taking some before going out to hang out at the bar with friends tonight. He hopes that it helps to relax and enjoy himself since he's trying to lay off the booze for a bit...

 

[SoCal]

Last night SWIM told me that he was lying in bed and took about 100mg of THH sublingually with the intention of later smoking some spice. However, he eventually decided that he was not in the mood for a full blown spice expedition last night. However, since he had taken the THH he was curious to see if it worked, so he decided to smoke a small little hit of spice...WOW! He only smoked the tiniest of pulls off the VG and it was way more intense them SWIM expected and also lasted much longer than intended.

It was somewhat of an intense experience and not very enjoyable because SWIM's ego was trying to normalize, but the spice would not let it. This was a cut and dry case of poor "set & setting" since he was not truly ready to go there. Now that he knows that the THH definitely works he will be better mentally prepared next time. Although a bit rough (to say the least), it was definitely a valuable learning experience.