PanoraMIX European AB

[dmt005]

I have 2 questions regarding this tek. First one, in the first step this tek says to add 15g of citric acid to increase the yield? Does adding the citric acid really have a huge effect on the yield or can it be skipped all together.

2. This tek as with others I have noticed does not say to heat the acid at all, from my understanding heating should help so if one chose to use a hot water bath would that be ok?

 

[Phantastica]

i don't add the citric acid, and still get good yields, so it's not necessary. i do however highly recommend that after the 4th naptha pull, you do a 5th and 6th pull with any of the wider range solvents, such as Xylene, Limo, etc. Naptha only pulls ~1% of the actives, so you must pull with Xylene or smth for the other 1% actives.

And heating is unnecessary with this tek, since the acid pre-soak for 3 days, serves the purpose of breaking down the bark pretty well. People only heat acid when they are trying to extract the dmt alkaloids into the water, and do an "actual AB" extraction. This AB is not an actual AB, but rather an STB, with an acid pre-soak.

 

[gammagore]

Ive never used any citric acid with this tek, and never heated it either and still gotten just under 2% yield.

 

[dmt005]

We will see how it goes. A mild hot water bath is being integrated into this tek to see what happens. 100 g of MHRB was used, yields will be reported in a few days

 

[dmt005]

I ahve one issue however. swim doesnt have a working freezer swim can use. Instead swim has an old mini fridge (maybe 3 ft high) that swim is thinking of using as a make shift freezer. swim was thinking taht if swim put a block of dry ice in it that should do the trick? swim will find out as this is the only method available other than using a cooler with dry ice.

 

[dmt005]

Swim just put collected naptha pulls into a broken mini fridge with about 5 pounds of dry ice, its been about an hour or so , swim checked the naptha because swim is very impatient and wanted to see the progress and swim was surprised with a bottom full of white xtls. I just thought I would share the news, the dry ice has a long way to go before it is finished so swim is going to wait a while before using a filter to separate after that swim will have measurements and reports on final prod with the tek used.

 

[Trickster]

Ive never used any citric acid with this tek, and never heated it either and still gotten just under 2% yield.

Hmmm... Just under 2%? Last time when I got 1.8% of pretty white powdery stuff it was very weak. Recently I started to measure pH very carefully and have found that too wide range between acidic and basic stages (2.5 - 13) leads to high yields but weak spice. Probably some inactive substances are also extracted. If I keep pH between 5 and 11 my yield is around 1% but the spice is extremely potent.

 

[girche]

Ive never used any citric acid with this tek, and never heated it either and still gotten just under 2% yield.

Hmmm... Just under 2%? Last time when I got 1.8% of pretty white powdery stuff it was very weak. Recently I started to measure pH very carefully and have found that too wide range between acidic and basic stages (2.5 - 13) leads to high yields but weak spice. Probably some inactive substances are also extracted. If I keep pH between 5 and 11 my yield is around 1% but the spice is extremely potent.

Hey ....
If i use this exactly by itself , so then can i recrystal that 1.8% to bring it to potent crystal or no ?
and please explain how you exactly bring ph to those levels !?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

We haven't seen this one for a while, but it checks out!
Reference point: PanoraMIX European AB - DMT-Nexus Wiki

Just a heads up, nowadays most would skip the ammonia wash. And to save on heptane, as per your recent thread, you could warm the base soup with a water bath (be careful of cracking glass jars - start with the minimal temperature difference when placing the soup container into the waterbath. Keep the heptane or naphtha [NPS] far away until the soup is up to temperature. Remove heat source and proceed with NPS pulls.)

You could certainly do a recrystallisation on the final product to see how that affects yield. It could be the case that there are other reasons besides purity for the subjectively weaker effects of panoramix-derived product - crystal form being one of them.


PS - you'd ascertain pH levels with indicator papers or a pH meter.

 

[girche]

I have not exactly understood that how much Naphta uses in this Tek ? It says do Step 6 , 6 times ! so it means i got to put 6x 100ml - 600 ml ?
Is that true ? but in the "Materials Required" sextion says : 300ml naphta is needed !!!!
Please someone let me know about that !
BTW it says "let the last pull sit for 24 hours" what it means ? it mean i got to let seperated naphta and solution sit without shaking for 24 hours and then pull it ?
And the last question :
I got to keep all pulls in the dish and wait for the last pull and then freez or every pull got to freez seperately ?
Please some one help me about that...i'm new in extraction

 

[forwardtoinfinity]

I think it does mean to use 600ml total Naphtha, even though it says 300ml in the materials.
6 pulls might be a bit many IMO but it sure would get the most.

For letting the last pull sit, I would think it would be better to mix (rotating container end over end more gently, not vigorous up/down like a spray can) a few times while waiting, but being sure to let them completely separate in the end, maybe a few hours of stillness to be sure.

Usually you add all the Naphtha you've collected to one dish so you can process it all in one go. With freeze precipitation on this much solvent it will be good to evaporate about half of the total Naphtha away, that makes it more likely to precipitate the most goodies.

 

[girche]

I think it does mean to use 600ml total Naphtha, even though it says 300ml in the materials.
6 pulls might be a bit many IMO but it sure would get the most.

For letting the last pull sit, I would think it would be better to mix (rotating container end over end more gently, not vigorous up/down like a spray can) a few times while waiting, but being sure to let them completely separate in the end, maybe a few hours of stillness to be sure.

Usually you add all the Naphtha you've collected to one dish so you can process it all in one go. With freeze precipitation on this much solvent it will be good to evaporate about half of the total Naphtha away, that makes it more likely to precipitate the most goodies.

Thank you very much ...Bless up bortha..
I'm using this tek and i will post the result.
you think it's a good tek for getting dmt for vape ? i dont use dmt oraly

 

[forwardtoinfinity]

Best of luck following this tek. Though, IMO it would be easiest for you to use the saturated solvent you talked about in your other thread. A mini acid/base is simpler than starting from the beginning again in my experience.

Yup, either of these will result in freebase, which is what you would vape.

Edit: I also want to say that after thinking about it for a little it would be most efficient solvent-wise to use the 300ml total it says in materials, maybe 100mL for the first pull then smaller amounts after. 600mL definitely seems like a lot to use for only 100gr bark.
~1gr of DMT should be carried by less than 100mL. 100g bark has ~2g at best usually. The naphtha will hold more DMT when it is warmer, so it is best to warm it before pulling. That way you use less solvent, and have to evaporate less before freezing.

 

[girche]

Best of luck following this tek. Though, IMO it would be easiest for you to use the saturated solvent you talked about in your other thread. A mini acid/base is simpler than starting from the beginning again in my experience.

Yup, either of these will result in freebase, which is what you would vape.

Edit: I also want to say that after thinking about it for a little it would be most efficient solvent-wise to use the 300ml total it says in materials, maybe 100mL for the first pull then smaller amounts after. 600mL definitely seems like a lot to use for only 100gr bark.
~1gr of DMT should be carried by less than 100mL. 100g bark has ~2g at best usually. The naphtha will hold more DMT when it is warmer, so it is best to warm it before pulling. That way you use less solvent, and have to evaporate less before freezing.

uhum,
So you think how much solvent i got to use for 100 grm mhrb and how percent i got to evaporate ?
6X 50 ml is good ? and evaporate 50 % ?
I dont want to fail again on the extraction
BTW i have seen Cyb's tek and that tek it says pull 50 ml naphta and freez it and once again pull 50 ml and freez it (till 5 times)
but when i look in to the photo i see that it seems all 250 ml pulls are in one dish

I'm really tired of these Contradictions in the teks..
i have failed in extracton once and i dont want it again

 

[forwardtoinfinity]

If you haven't gotten rid of your saturated solvent/bark soup, you haven't failed, just left more steps for later
There might be some contradictions, because it's kind of an art, but once you learn what's happening in each step you'll not even need a tek

6x50mL should be good, or even 4x75mL. You can also keep pulling until you think the naphtha doesn't catch any more (usually tell by the color change).

Freezing the first few pulls you can usually do without evaporation because they tend to be fully saturated, since there's so much DMT to catch. This definitely works when you warm the solvent before you pull, since it will catch more that way.

Evaporating 50% of 300mL should make freeze precipitation go nicely, but I never really measured my naphtha at any point :? If it only gets cloudy from the freezer after a day, it needs to be evapped some more

 

[downwardsfromzero]

once you learn what's happening in each step you'll not even need a tek

:thumb_up::thumb_up::thumb_up:

i have failed in extracton once and i dont want it again

Failing to extract from MHRB is often indicative that the bark was no good.


Another important rule - the Golden Rule of extraction, even:
Don't throw anything away until you're certain you've got all the goods!

Best of luck!