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Paranormal Experiment

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C

Cheeto

Rising Star
I know i will probably get alot smack for suggesting this, but the way i see it is nothing is not worth looking at, sometimes you can get surprised. Plus this wouldn't exactly require alot of funds to look into, but if surprised could be quite an amazing find.


I would like to do or see an experiment done, i personally don't see it not worth looking at, everything is worth lookin at once. I think it could clear alot up about paranormal abilities, test to see if they are real or more than likely not. Find quit a bit of people to work with who are real susceptible to hypnosis and possible already claiming to have some kind of paranormal ability(And some that don't). Most people would agree if one person can do it, anyother person can do it with right amount pratice that yeilds correct results, with few exceptions. So you attempt to train these people through hypnosis to build up paranormal abilities, start small and building up. For the ones that already claim to have abilities your just trying to quickly advance them to something that can't be denied. Also work with TK, don't just stick to head games, lets attempt to see if we can effect the physical world. If turned out to be truth, could open a new door for science.


Its just an experiment i think could prove paranorml to be normal. I personally think it is highly likely these abilities are real(not to be mistaking as a solid belief, just an idea.). This could answer the question, i don't have access to do anything, i'm not a scientist, i'm not exactly rich either.

Just thought i would post this in hopes of someone looking into it.
 
I think one starting point would be to test people who already claim they have paranormal abilities. Like pyschics etc. And not just John Edwards style on some stupid tv show but real scrutinious analysis. Personally I think most psychics are fakes and they are just good at reading people and very observant but of course it would need to be proven one way or the other through experiments.
 
Harry Houdini the famous escapist also had a good career investigating the paranormal. He was clever enough to know all the tricks and to dig out other people's tricks. He was claiming that there is not such thing as a magic or paranormal and people who do so are just performing some sort of trick.

He got into mediums who allegedly were communicating with spirits, people claiming telekinesis and all the rest of the lot. He always debunked all of the so-called spiritualists/paranormalists by revealing their the tricks.

It is amazing the tricks some people will devise on forcing their weird beliefs on other people.

And yeah, psychics are really good at reading people as well as pretty observant. I have yet to see someone who claims/claimed to have paranormal activities and was confident enough to test it in a proper scientific setting.
 
You may be forgeting one thing though. One paranormal ability has been proved to be true. Remote Viewing, and has a refined method called CRV(Coordinate Remote Viewing), which has been proved to be 90% accurate in double blind experiments. I know that the little pin-wheel trick that people try to claim as TK has been over looked, people being to skeptical. I saw how they made it move with the cup of steam, But thats unlogical to think that much steam is cooming off a persons hands from 6 in. away. Also, i was curious about it and gave it a FAIR shot, niether approving or disapproving. I found it interesting that i could move if from a couple of feet away, without hands. Also i noticed, in some wierd way you know what its going to do a split second ahead. And also relized it battles with your confidence, which i saw something else. If you try to advance giving it a fair shot you can get stuck at times and not be able to move it at all, even with your hands, yet at other times getting it to spin fast without hands. I noticed if you show someone, then tell them to try it, more than likey they will be able to do it. If they don't know about it and you don't show them they more than likely want pull it off. Showing me that it has something to do with confidence. When being skeptical your having this confidence it will move on its on because of steam comming off your hands, but its because you HAVE confidence it will move is why its moving. If you gave it a fair chance instead of being so skeptical you might see there is a little more to it than steam. So i'm more curious about these things being truth, i would like to see this experiment done, because it would once and for all prove it, and its a very good approach in my view.
 
burnt said:
I think one starting point would be to test people who already claim they have paranormal abilities. Like pyschics etc. And not just John Edwards style on some stupid tv show but real scrutinious analysis. Personally I think most psychics are fakes and they are just good at reading people and very observant but of course it would need to be proven one way or the other through experiments.
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I suggested to get people that claim it, as well as people that don't. Also go for people claiming different things. I would like to see if you could advance someone from the pin-wheel to something more undeniable, like lifting a coin, or moving it from a distance.
 
^^There is still considerable debate about some of the studies about remote viewing including data manipulation. Either way you can show correlations or get people to guess right many times but the next step is to explain a mechanism. No one has done that or even tried to as far as I know. Without a mechanism the results can be continually debated over and over and to me still are not convincing.

What is TK? Or the pinwheel?
 
Also, i'm not claiming the pin-wheel trick is real, i'm just saying from personal experince it does appear that way, which is what makes me more curious about it. And like i said, i think it deserves more investigation.
 
burnt said:
^^There is still considerable debate about some of the studies about remote viewing including data manipulation. Either way you can show correlations or get people to guess right many times but the next step is to explain a mechanism. No one has done that or even tried to as far as I know. Without a mechanism the results can be continually debated over and over and to me still are not convincing.

What is TK? Or the pinwheel?
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TK is Telekinesis, the pin-wheel experiment is where you have a peice of paper folded like a pyramid, in a way, and rest it on top of a straight pin, pointy side up, to give it no friction. And you try to get it to spin by mind, and sometimes by hand. Trying to get energy to come out of your hands to get it to spin. If you want to give it a fair shot, play with it and try to learn how to get it to spin, stop and spin the oppisite way on demand, i have found its possible to do this which makes me curious and think they where being to skeptical when looking at it.

They so called proved it was a trick by putting a hot cup of water by the wheel and getting it to spin. This cracks me up, you should look at information on this and see the amount of visible steam pouring off that cup. The wheel was really only spinning moderately, i have got it to spin way faster with my hands six inches away. To suggest that much steam is comming of my hands at that distance is ridiculous. Being i had it spinning twice as fast means i would need even more steam than that cup, and then to add the distance makes that explination unlogical.

In fact, there experiment they say disproved it really proved that there is a little truth in it, it shows you how much steam you would need to get it spining so fast. Showing a human can beat the cup, and the cup puts off way more steam. Really what was there point? That we can make steam engines?


What i don't see is how people call something the CIA started praticing because it was 90% accurate, controversial. Thats why i think skeptisim is harmful, when you can't believe something thats obvious just because you can't explain it. That should make you curious, not write it off. Remember, some people are so skeptical they don't believe in the ozone layer, or that we landed on the moon. These are perfect examples of the harm of skeptisim. Without seeing it for themselfs they will never believe, no matter what evidence you show them they will write it off. Nothing short of a personal trip to the moon will make them believe.
 
With psychics i think skeptisim has also been took to an extreme, and i have an idea to clear that up, a FAIR test.

Test lots of psychic people for seeing what mystery object is in a box. Do many tests and grab the one with the most success. Now do the same tests with that one psychic. Then get 8 skeptics and put them to the test and compair results to the psychic. Though the psychic might not alwasys be 100% accurate, he should do way better than the skeptics because they will simply be guessing and should have very low accuracy, like 0% - 10%, as the psychic should score more around 40% - 60%. It would prove in a blind study a psychic has some advantage to guessing whats in the box. In this test there is no way they will be able to read shit off of anyone. So there would be no other way the psychic should have an advantage unlees he/she really is psychic to a degree. No one person has more of a gift of guessing something unkown.
 
^^You would need a control group too. Non "psychics". Ok well not believing in going to the moon is taking skepticism too far but not believing in psychics until its really justifiable is not going over the top. I also want to know mechanisms not just some correlation studies. You can take population A and compare it to population B and do all types of statistical tricks to get all kinds of results. This happens all the time in science and thats why one must be very critical of statistical analysis. But if you have a mechanism and prove the mechanisms thats where the real proof starts. Just doing correlation studies doesn't prove that people are capable of reading minds or guessing whats in a box.

Couldn't the pinwheel just cause it to spin because you are trying to balance it on an axis and thus it spins?
 
burnt said:
Couldn't the pinwheel just cause it to spin because you are trying to balance it on an axis and thus it spins?
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No, i though of that as well. I let it sit in my room on a table. I looked at it many times to see if it spins by its self. Take care to notice i said sometimes even with my hand very close it want spin at all. Every now and then air current will make it move just a little. Unless you swing a door or move real fast and stri up air it want move at all. When you start playing with it trying to get it to move you notice a very high increase in activity. Getting it to keep a steady pace of spining, and like i said also being able to get it to stop and go the oppisite direction.
 
I feel it really should be conducted by skeptics, and for them to take an honest route, no manipulation in results. To me it seems logical that if done honestly it proves there is something there, then its the scientists job to work on figuring out how it works. This just proves it does work in a way. Because like i said, skeptics want be in favor, so if the results reveal that the psychic can guess the object(s) WAY better than 8 skeptics, it is logical proof something is going on. Again, no one is better at gueesing unkown objects, its unlogical to think that. So for him to be better at guessing objects with pretty good accuracy means he is to a degree psychic.
 
I also am disapointed that statistics don't count for much of anything, it shouldn't be that way. When making scientific claims it should be punishable by law to manipulate results to favor any outcome. If that were the case maybe we could stop these fuckers from doing it and actually take science seriously.
 
lol, the pin wheel!We used to do it as teenagers trying to fool others to believe that we and they have telekinetic powers.

There are plenty of explanations out there for the phenomenon, including heat from your hands as they approach the object, electrostatic interactions again from your hands, air currents or diversion of air currents when hand are placed close to it etc.

In my opinion there seems to be nothing strange about that. Cetainly not a proof of telekinesis but a funny trick nevertheless!

If a person's telekinetic powers were strong enough to rotate the wheel at a fast rate (e.g. 3 revolutions per second or more) then this person could easily perform the same thing trying to rotate an ice cube on a flat surface of ice (ice has very very low friction coefficient. ice on ice exerts amazingly little friction).

Try the same with ice cube, if you're a real psychic you should be able to do it!
 
Infundibulum said:
lol, the pin wheel!We used to do it as teenagers trying to fool others to believe that we and they have telekinetic powers.

There are plenty of explanations out there for the phenomenon, including heat from your hands as they approach the object, electrostatic interactions again from your hands, air currents or diversion of air currents when hand are placed close to it etc.

In my opinion there seems to be nothing strange about that. Cetainly not a proof of telekinesis but a funny trick nevertheless!

If a person's telekinetic powers were strong enough to rotate the wheel at a fast rate (e.g. 3 revolutions per second or more) then this person could easily perform the same thing trying to rotate an ice cube on a flat surface of ice (ice has very very low friction coefficient. ice on ice exerts amazingly little friction).

Try the same with ice cube, if you're a real psychic you should be able to do it!
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lol, yes i see your view. but your missing the point that an ice cube still has friction, so even though its not that much it is a good bit in terms of how much force it would take to make the pin wheel spin so fast being almost 0 friction and the ice cube being so little increased in friction can cause so much extra force required to move it at all. If you've done this before then i suggest you do like a real scientist would and put all opinions aside and go for real results. Actually try to pratice it and get better, try honestly, as in trying to move it by different ways of thought as well as fellings in the direction you want it to go. Also when you get it spining try to get it to stop, and spin the oppisite direction. You CAN find some proof in it for you if you give it a fair shot. You may not believe me but on a personal level to me i have found there is more to this that hasn't yet been explained. If you pratice enough you can remove your hands from the equation, i personaly know that because i did it. You can notice it battles with your confidence, i tried to show a couple of people and at first i felt like such a jackass for suggesting this was TK that i could not perform at all. I couldn't get it to do nothing but shake a little. It may explain it to you, but on a personal level it dosent explain it to me, i've found i can defeat thoughs suggestions.

Also, when adding weight to the equation its even that much more force required to move an object that has friction, look at this, how heavy is an ice cube and how much friction does it have even on ice. Now look at how heavy the peice of paper is on a pin wheel and the fact that it has near 0 friction, not even counting the amount of area in which the weight set upon. More surface = more friction An ice cube has alot more surface to suface space then a peice of paper sittin on the point tip of a straight pin. I really don't see with all this in mind how you say if you can move a pin-wheel you can move an ice cube, you may have jumped to that conclusion to quickly, unless you've sat down and done the math?
 
Like i said, this is why i'm curious, and would like to see if you could advance someone to moving a coin through hypnosis. Because hypnosis does work, and if this does work surely you can quickly train someone to move something more believable.


With the pin-wheel to me i found that it will do what you expect it to do. So yes, you expected it to move all the times you did it so ofcourse it moved, that makes since to me. Also i also found anyone can do it, not that suprizing though, you would think it would be that way right? No one is special. Just give it another shot and remember this that i have learned, it will do what you expect it to do. Try to change what you expect, thats the key to seeing its worth looking at further.
 
burnt said:
Ok well not believing in going to the moon is taking skepticism too far but not believing in psychics until its really justifiable is not going over the top.
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That is true to a degree, what makes it go to far is to not know yet believe its not true. if you don't know you should only have opinions, but you should drop thoughs opinions when it comes to putting theorys to the test. If you go in with a skeptical approach, more than often you over look things and are to quick to say you have an explanation instead of putting your explanation to the true test, to see if it gives you the correct results. Like with the pin-wheel and the cup of water, sure keep the rest of the theorys, but that one dosen't fit at all, its not logical, why is it marked as an explanation? Because the people who did the tests where skeptical, they wern't trying to see if it was real, they where trying to prove it wasn't, their opinions wern't put aside, they went in believing it was bullshit.
 
Yeah man, I've played with that enough. The warmer the hands are the better and faster it will move. If I rub them on my sweater the better the results. And if I wanna "concentrate" till i'm sweating it's gonna get even better.

The point with the ice cube is not that it has so little friction, but if one is able to put enough telekinesis force to move the wee pyramid then he should be good enough to whirl some ice cube.

But the most important point from the science's view is that a fact needs to be proven through a handful of different approaches. That is, trying to prove the same thing using different approaches. And just by this thinking alone, the pin wheel is fallacious. Because "telekinesis" can only be "demonstrated" in this particular system. Train till you become a pro at turning the wee thing around, then go try to do the same with something else; preferably something without a whirl-like shape, like a small dry leaf, a small piece of paper etc. If you succeed, then we might be really hitting on something interesting.

I wouldn't put my money on that though:wink:
 
Infundibulum said:
Yeah man, I've played with that enough. The warmer the hands are the better and faster it will move. If I rub them on my sweater the better the results. And if I wanna "concentrate" till i'm sweating it's gonna get even better.

The point with the ice cube is not that it has so little friction, but if one is able to put enough telekinesis force to move the wee pyramid then he should be good enough to whirl some ice cube.

But the most important point from the science's view is that a fact needs to be proven through a handful of different approaches. That is, trying to prove the same thing using different approaches. And just by this thinking alone, the pin wheel is fallacious. Because "telekinesis" can only be "demonstrated" in this particular system. Train till you become a pro at turning the wee thing around, then go try to do the same with something else; preferably something without a whirl-like shape, like a small dry leaf, a small piece of paper etc. If you succeed, then we might be really hitting on something interesting.

I wouldn't put my money on that though:wink:
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I told you it has to do with what you expect, i don't know how to make that anymore clear. I wish i had the money to put on it, you talk to me normal, but i guess assume i'm lieing to prove a point. If you don't think i'm lieing, then explain how i have managed to get it to stop spinning and change directions on demand. Yes you are correct, this is no where near enough proof, which is why i suggested the hypnosis training experiment. You also seem to keep missing that fact i said i could remove my hands and still do it. Is there an explanation for this if the hands aren't used and the person is a few feet away? Besides air current, thats not logical when compaired to the experiment. True air current can move it, but in a room with not much air moving around the wheel dosent really spin at all, unless your trying to make it move, so in the right condictions that explanation is just another skeptic trying to prove something is false without giving a fair shot. That in no way explains it. And please, i want to hear what you have to say as a logical explanation for no hands, a logical, air current isn't logical, hands are removed....that gets rid of cup of water and static......though i do find it interesting, i didn't know paper carried a static charge and could be affected by people. I never got shocked when touching paper, so how does that explanation work?
 
Thats what makes me curious of the skeptics, sadly its with my own experince and i can't prove it because people would have to listen, and take my word for some of it. I have on a personal note debunked every explanation the skeptics gave for the pin-wheel experiment, in every explanation they jumped to conclusions, and truly dosen't add up. People can't effect paper with static, hands aren't steam engines, and air current can be minimized so it dosent effect the wheel at all.
 
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