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Paranormal Experiment
- Thread starter Cheeto
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Jorkest said:
thanx for that, i quickly found a good example that deserves explanation. I suggest everyone to look on you tube....do a search for "PSI wheel" the first one i say was awsome. they proved their was no way to manipulate the attempt.
this is the video i recomend on youtube, it proves my point.
"The best psi wheel video: PsiWheel Under a Glass Container 2"
damn that was the shit!:d
Cheeto said:
How about this for statistics, conduct the same experiment 50 times with the same skeptics and the same psychic. I don't really see how you could argure those results, if the psychic greatly kicks their ass out of 50 chances(say even 90% would be outstanding if you think logicly, judge each attempt), then you can easiy see he has some kind of unkown advantage in guessing. Guessing isn't something you can be good at when there are no clues. I just don't see how anyone could really say this would not prove something. I some how can't make that logicly fit. Break down for me how that wouldn't tell you. If you only did it once, 50 different tests with 8 skeptics and 1 psychic.
Jorkest said:
Well, yes that work a little better. Say the best two performing psychics out of as many as you can find, if possible test as many as 50 people to get your best two psychics.
About the ice spinning. I thought of a simple way of thinking to show you, its so lop sided it dosent require math. Imagine how hard you will have to blow on a peice of ice to get it to even spin just 90 degrees around, compair that with the very small amount of air it takes to move the pin wheel. That should show you that it takes far greater force to even move the ice slightly. Remeber, because the pin wheel has almost 0 friction, one push will let it travel far on its own, one push with the same amount of force on an ice cube want do anything, but even if you push it hard enough to get it move a little, it will stop when you stop pushing it.
The more i think about the pin wheel explanations the weirder it all sounds. For instance why would they give multiple explanations? They wern't sure which one it exacly was? But i thought you where supose to put an explanation to the test to see if it fits, in the case of how it should have been there should have only been one explanation, unless they where suggesting all three where working together, staticly charged note book paper, steam comming from hands, and i'm sorry, i can't mention the air current, its not that smart to assume one can't cunduct the experiment without controlling air current. Why do all these so called explanations fail when put to the test, where they even scientists? When an explanation dosen't explain, how do you call it that?
Listen if people were telekinetic they would be able to move much more then some pinwheel that seems to be a simple trick. If someone wants to prove their telekinetic ability please lift a car or something. Then I might start believing in it 
About the psychics I want one of them to read my mind. If they can read my mind meaning every thought I have maybe I'll believe them. But there are those people John Edwards like people Indian astrology type people who are so good at observing people based on just your body language that it seems as if they are reading your mind but they really aren't.
About the psychics I want one of them to read my mind. If they can read my mind meaning every thought I have maybe I'll believe them. But there are those people John Edwards like people Indian astrology type people who are so good at observing people based on just your body language that it seems as if they are reading your mind but they really aren't.
burnt said:Listen if people were telekinetic they would be able to move much more then some pinwheel that seems to be a simple trick. If someone wants to prove their telekinetic ability please lift a car or something. Then I might start believing in it
About the psychics I want one of them to read my mind. If they can read my mind meaning every thought I have maybe I'll believe them. But there are those people John Edwards like people Indian astrology type people who are so good at observing people based on just your body language that it seems as if they are reading your mind but they really aren't.
Yes i see your point, there good at reading people, but in a double blind guess whats in the box, exacty what are you suggesting they are reading and off of who or what? Its not good think to ingnore that fact, to suggest they are reading off of something when there is nothing avalible that could hint any kind of clue. And with the TK, you go into assuming something outrageous like if they can move something small they can move a car. I hardly think we have enough knowledge to assume we know how it works, as in the capibilities of it all together. And i'm not trying to convince you, but if you can take an honest look, all the explanations for it are bullshit so far, you might see, well why hasn't a TRUE explanation been given for it if its just a simple trick?
I have to say, i don't think anyone has, but don't get fired up, i love debating this subject. My train of thought seems to fit quite logicly with me. I think i have a keen sense of what logic is and how it works, and to me alot of the come backs i'm hearing don't meet the standards of logic.
SWIM digs what your saying. I think guessing in the box would be better then reading people. But yes SWIM is most interested in mechanisms for without them its tough to say whats really going on. For example with ayahuasca and other psychedelics people report telepathic like things happening. How true are they how much of it is just the drugs messing with the mind I don't know but if similar parts of the brain get activated perhaps with drugs and those with supposed psychic abilities might be an interesting area to start studying a bit deeper.
My point about the car was meant to illustrate that the pin wheel example is just one example. If its true it should be repeatable with other examples. Maybe a moving a paper clip with your mind or something like that with no tricks etc. Which I kind of don't believe is possible but if someone did it and proved they weren't messing around maybe I would think differently (maybe ).
My point about the car was meant to illustrate that the pin wheel example is just one example. If its true it should be repeatable with other examples. Maybe a moving a paper clip with your mind or something like that with no tricks etc. Which I kind of don't believe is possible but if someone did it and proved they weren't messing around maybe I would think differently (maybe
).
There are quite a few explanations because all of them account for the phenomenon to some extent. And yes, paper can be static so magnetism can be one of the explanations.
The wheel is constructed so that it is so easy to move. Insanely easy as a matter of fact. For this reason all sorts of physical forces can influence it and make it move. So we have these potential forces that can move the wheel;
1) extremely weak currents, too weak for us to feel.
2) heat currents, either from your hands or any else thermal source.
3) magnetic waves.
Believe it or not, heat currents and magnetic waves are difficult to control for. And they naturally happen around our rooms all the time. For instance, a thermal current will form between a computer and a heat sink like the window. Or the radiator and the window. Or between the radiator and the computer. Or between the heatpipes of the central heating that lie inside the walls. Or between a human body (heat generator) and whatever else. All of these heat currents are around us all the time but they are too difficult for us to detect but they are there.
And then you have magnetism. All electrical equipment produces some magnetic field. Again, weak magnetic currents flow around our rooms. Sockets never give the same amount of voltage. The output voltage plays around alot. Many electrical engineers are aware of this problem and they devise special equipments to protect electrical appliances from potentially dangerous "voltage spikes" that can fry expensive equipment plugged in a socket.
And magnetic currents from oscillating sockets for instance and any other metallic object in the room (especially iron, like the iron bars inside the walls or copper, see all the cables around) will form around us all the time.
So, the environment one test the pin or psi wheel is already loaded with forces that have the potential to move it around, in any direction or any speed. And we as humans are part of this "force" complex. And as I said above, the wheel because of its construction is susceptible to all these forces.
If you want a good test then take the wheel in a controlled environment, static-free, current-free, thermal current free. then try to move it. Whatever you can do with the wheel in your room (or think you can do) does not really tell me much. Part of convincing people is the ability to demonstrate it to others, right?
The wheel is constructed so that it is so easy to move. Insanely easy as a matter of fact. For this reason all sorts of physical forces can influence it and make it move. So we have these potential forces that can move the wheel;
1) extremely weak currents, too weak for us to feel.
2) heat currents, either from your hands or any else thermal source.
3) magnetic waves.
Believe it or not, heat currents and magnetic waves are difficult to control for. And they naturally happen around our rooms all the time. For instance, a thermal current will form between a computer and a heat sink like the window. Or the radiator and the window. Or between the radiator and the computer. Or between the heatpipes of the central heating that lie inside the walls. Or between a human body (heat generator) and whatever else. All of these heat currents are around us all the time but they are too difficult for us to detect but they are there.
And then you have magnetism. All electrical equipment produces some magnetic field. Again, weak magnetic currents flow around our rooms. Sockets never give the same amount of voltage. The output voltage plays around alot. Many electrical engineers are aware of this problem and they devise special equipments to protect electrical appliances from potentially dangerous "voltage spikes" that can fry expensive equipment plugged in a socket.
And magnetic currents from oscillating sockets for instance and any other metallic object in the room (especially iron, like the iron bars inside the walls or copper, see all the cables around) will form around us all the time.
So, the environment one test the pin or psi wheel is already loaded with forces that have the potential to move it around, in any direction or any speed. And we as humans are part of this "force" complex. And as I said above, the wheel because of its construction is susceptible to all these forces.
If you want a good test then take the wheel in a controlled environment, static-free, current-free, thermal current free. then try to move it. Whatever you can do with the wheel in your room (or think you can do) does not really tell me much. Part of convincing people is the ability to demonstrate it to others, right?
Infundibulum said:
Well i thought that was the whole point of THEIR experiment where they gave the explanations, why would they not cunduct it in a controlled enviorment? I thought thats what your supose to do, just like you suggested, common sense i would say. So my next question would be why did they not think of that? They could have removed all these possibilities except for the human part, which they could easily put something by it compairable to a human body and watch to see if it effects it. I say this because in my personal experince being by it does not mean its going to move, even with all the problems you stated in my room it never just sat there and moved around, unless you ran by it or swong a door and srited air AROUND it. All these forces only effected it when i gave it a chance? When i start playing with it, even from so many feet away, it goes from not moving to high activity. I doubt these forces only effect it when i'm playing with it. But anyway, they did not conduct the experiment correctly if they did not control the enviorment. They could have put the human generator thoery to the test but they did not, they just SAID these are the explanations. I'm sorry, but how much static does it take to move a peice of notebook paper? I have moved bags and styrophone cups with static but never seen any kind of static activity in paper. If you feel a room with enough static to knock me back 10 feet and have peice of paper in that room, your saying the paper will move around? Has this been proved? And magnets, you show me a magnet that attracts paper.
Cheeto said:
Sorry, I just saw that. Since the psi-wheel aerodynamically shaped an it minimises friction to absolute minimum, then even the most minute force will move it. This is really simple mechanical physics. In a zero friction environment ANY force will change the speed of an object. And you can imagine that when not living in a zero force environment, the ultra-low friction wheel will be inevitably susceptible to movement changes
You have to reconsider the power of physics and how they affect objects.
Cheeto said:
Why doubt? The role of the observer/researcher in actually influencing his/her research system is a long problem in science. YOU are an object, a modifier of the experimental system. It is difficult to account or control for the presence of the experimenter in an experimental system.
Cheeto said:
Non much, really. As far as magnet attracting paper, I never said or meant anything close to that. I meant that electrostatic objects (yes, paper is an electrostatic object, you can charge a plastic object by rubbing it on wool, this plastic object will attract wee pieces of paper) can be influenced by magnetic fields.
Infundibulum said:
Yes, but i have seen them conduct experiments with really intence magnets to contain things, they could have no metal in the room at all, they never seemed concerned about paper, they had paper everwhere, so if it can effect paper when it has so little friction, then surely when you turn it up that much it should begin effecting paper, but it dosent, there saying it CAN effect it, but there assuming it, it has never been proved that magnetics effect paper, i have never heard anyone even assume that until it came to this subject and their claims.
I missied your last reply. I still think it was over looked though, and i still say with my experince the explanations are incorrect and dont fit. I dosen't make sense to me, i can sit by it,and have done it, without trying to move it and it dosent move, still sitting in the same spot with only looking at it and it starts to move. If these forces only take place when your trying to move it, maybe there more of a start on explaining how TK works. Being there only active when you focus on moving an object. Maybe TK works with electromagnetics.
Just take your plastic BIC pen. Rub on your hair or wool. Try to fish with that little pieces of paper. Telekinesis? No, static electricity! With the same charged plastic pen try to move the wheel. It does move.
Are humans static electricity bodies? Yes. Can they affect the wheel? Yes.
Are humans static electricity bodies? Yes. Can they affect the wheel? Yes.
What do you know, learn something new every day. But i'm still not convinced its all a trick, because how does this effect it from across the room. I can sit here and look at this thing for 10 minutes, not trying to move it, not using hands. Sitting four feet away, it dosen't move at all, only when i try to move it by mind does it start moving, its too much of a coincidence to go down like that every attempt. Without moving, only thought here, not trying and its not moving, attempt tor try and it starts moving, no hands, four feet away. I'm doing right now by the way. I still think there is more to learn here, i see you point now, the pin effected it greatly, but maybe you helped me in a way. Now i wounder if electromagnetics is the key to TK. If you can direct electromagnetic energy from accross the room to effect an object in the way you want, ofcourse this is just a thought.
I think John Hutchison even suggested this in one of his experiments as a explanation for ghosts. With the correct amount of electromagnetic waves/fields your brain can create a path to effect outside objects. He just suggested it, with his crazy but amazing machine. What are your thoughts about his work, or do you think he's a fake?
I repeat, with an honest test it is to much of a coincidence that the wheel only spins when i focus on it. Keeping in mind that i also watch it and it dosent move, only when i focus. Still four feet away, not using hands, when i stop focusing on it, why does it stop moving?
O NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn, ha! I got bad news for the static theory, help me here, i want to learn. I might not be bad news, but it is interesting. Heres what i just found. I can give my self alot of static by rubbing my shoes on carpet and rubbing my hands on my head. I noticed no matter how much static I have, it dosen't effect anysize peice of paper. I tryed to clear my head and see if i could put my static charged hand by the wheel to see if it would spin, This can be hard if you expect it to move. Luckly, i think it operates on expectence so i have trained in this feild and can put my hand by it with a static charge iand the wheel remains still. Help me solve this one, why isn't the static from me effecting it at all? The BIC pin when charged makes it go crazy, and will make a peice of paper jump off the table and latch on. I repeat, i just did experiments where i staticly charged up, put my hand less than an inch away and it had no effect. By the way, to do this and get my results you have to find away to be able to not expect it to move, being that what i think it deals with if you expaect it will move then it WILL move.
I think John Hutchison even suggested this in one of his experiments as a explanation for ghosts. With the correct amount of electromagnetic waves/fields your brain can create a path to effect outside objects. He just suggested it, with his crazy but amazing machine. What are your thoughts about his work, or do you think he's a fake?
I repeat, with an honest test it is to much of a coincidence that the wheel only spins when i focus on it. Keeping in mind that i also watch it and it dosent move, only when i focus. Still four feet away, not using hands, when i stop focusing on it, why does it stop moving?
O NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn, ha! I got bad news for the static theory, help me here, i want to learn. I might not be bad news, but it is interesting. Heres what i just found. I can give my self alot of static by rubbing my shoes on carpet and rubbing my hands on my head. I noticed no matter how much static I have, it dosen't effect anysize peice of paper. I tryed to clear my head and see if i could put my static charged hand by the wheel to see if it would spin, This can be hard if you expect it to move. Luckly, i think it operates on expectence so i have trained in this feild and can put my hand by it with a static charge iand the wheel remains still. Help me solve this one, why isn't the static from me effecting it at all? The BIC pin when charged makes it go crazy, and will make a peice of paper jump off the table and latch on. I repeat, i just did experiments where i staticly charged up, put my hand less than an inch away and it had no effect. By the way, to do this and get my results you have to find away to be able to not expect it to move, being that what i think it deals with if you expaect it will move then it WILL move.
I wish i wasn't the only one playing with it here. The personal experince(Only if took seriously) is the proof, but ofcourse only to you and no one else. I'm telling anyone who wants to experiment with this, it will do what you expect it to do. If expect it to move because its a joke it will move. If you expect it to move because you think theres truth in it, you can notice that it not only moves, but you can effect how it moves, spin, stop, spin the other way. Shows a sign of controll, not always good, but way more than coincidence, then to add that pratice really does mean more control. There is clearly something going on here in my view.
^^Try to move a paper clip with nothing put your mind screw the pin wheel. Try to lift a pencil with only your mind or a pen or any small object. It won't work if it does put it on you tube and let us check it out. Sorry this pinwheel stuff isn't convincing me of TK.
Infundibulum, when you played with it, when you had it spinning already, did you ever try(without changing anything other than thought) try to get it to stop and spin the oppisite direction, this works on demand, that means you are influencing it by some means unkown, this is not possible without some sort of control, because it can do what you want it to.