peyote

[vixintrex]

Is peyote to be consumed before or after ayahuasca?

I've never actually read any of the reports concerning strychnine content in peyote. I've heard that it does include strychnine and that it does not, both from sources other than word of mouth. I'd like to know more about this.

If it does, should one consume it before ayahuasca? which brings me to another question: this one is a very n00b like question, but it's the ultimate number one question anyone asks about concerning ayahuasca. How much should a person be concerned about their alkaloid consumption before taking ayahuasca as opposed to after taking ayahuasca? what is a cup of coffee one hour before ayahuasca as opposed to a cup of coffee an hour after it?

 

[RhythmSpring]

Is peyote to be consumed before or after ayahuasca?

Peyote should be consumed at least 8 hours, preferably 12 hours, before Ayahuasca. After Ayahuasca I would wait at least 6 hours, preferably 8. Since Ayahuasca is usually a nighttime thing, I would just wait until the morning.

I've never actually read any of the reports concerning strychnine content in peyote. I've heard that it does include strychnine and that it does not, both from sources other than word of mouth. I'd like to know more about this.

Sounds like an ignorant rumor. I as well have not read anything about Peyote containing strychnine or anything toxic. People consume pounds and pounds of Peyote and only get healthier.

If it does, should one consume it before ayahuasca? which brings me to another question: this one is a very n00b like question, but it's the ultimate number one question anyone asks about concerning ayahuasca. How much should a person be concerned about their alkaloid consumption before taking ayahuasca as opposed to after taking ayahuasca? what is a cup of coffee one hour before ayahuasca as opposed to a cup of coffee an hour after it?

Concerned about their alkaloid consumption? Like what?

Don't mix coffee and Ayahuasca. One hour before or after Ayahuasca is way too close. Leave coffee out of the ceremony completely, please. Caffeine is highly dangerous when combined with Ayahuasca, particularly the vine/MAOI/RIMA part.

 

[vixintrex]

Why wouldn't peyote be combined with ayahuasca?

Also may I mention that a lot of times I understand ayahuasca to be more enjoyable in smaller amounts. I really cant tell you what that means in terms of harming containing plants. Maybe 8 grams of seeds? But swim has found it most enjoyable to enjoy at a level that doesn't induce vomiting. Nonetheless. Since were talking about the carmine containing plants interacting with peyote then that's what well discuss and actually I dont know if it's 8 grams of seeds actually I'm just guessing but I was really asking about combining the two.

 

[vixintrex]

Yes. Coffee an hour before or after sounds unpleasant, but I was asking more as to whether things taken before or after the harmine are more interactive. After, I suppose, since that's how you do it.

 

[RhythmSpring]

Combining coffee and/or peyote with Ayahuasca is dangerous. Don't do it. Combining stimulants or phenethylamines with harmalas is putting your cardiovascular system and other bodily systems at risk. Please don't do it, for your own safety.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

There have been accounts of people consuming Peyote and/or San Pedro along with Harmalas with no issues.

However, the scary thing here doesn't seem to be the Phenethylamines quite as much as the Tyramine alkaloids. Peyote and Pedro both contain them. I'd have to say not recommended for that reason if no other.

 

[RhythmSpring]

There have been accounts of people consuming Peyote and/or San Pedro along with Harmalas with no issues.

That doesn't mean it's safe for everybody.

I for one have combined Syrian Rue and San Pedro and have felt worrying cardiovascular symptoms even at the microdose level.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Strychnine is an indole alkaloid. There is no way that peyote could contain strychnine. There is no record of any cactus ever having produced any indole alkaloids. (Claims for DMT or NMT - such as in the cas of Trichocereus terscheckii - arise from a misreading of N-methyltyramine derivatives in the research paper concerned.)

Pure mescaline and harmala alkaloids should in general not be too bad - notwithstanding RhythmSpring's cautionary message. Peyote contains a whole plethora of other components however and the isoquinoline alkaloids in particular might give rise to subjectively unpleasant reactions in some people. One former Nexus member suggested waiting until a couple of hours after taking the cactus if including harmala alkaloids in the experience in order to minimize unpleasant interactions with certain, purportedly short-lived, secondary alkaloids.

All the same, it would still be more prudent to go for a known strain of San Pedro with a minimal to zero isoquinoline content rather than the chemical cocktail that peyote typically presents or use a CIELO extract which you can confirm as being pure mescaline..

If you still decide to combine these two substances/plants it is highly desirable that you become familiar with each of them on their own and thereafter commence in their combination with a minimal dose. The effects of mescaline will typically become greatly magnified and while mescaline is a substance that has something of a reputation for being gentle and forgiving it is also capable of being mercilessly intense. Combine that with a duration of action of up to eighteen hours and you'd better be in the company of someone very able in the field of psychedelic guidance.

And once more, some people really do respond badly to even mescaline alone at a cardiovascular level [vasoconstriction]. Others argue that the vasodilatory properties of harmala alkaloids help to smooth this out.

Proceed with caution.

 

[dithyramb]

I have combined pachanoi and rue numerous times without experiencing problems. Once I combined bridgesii and rue and felt like I could have killed myself because of the blood pressure rise, but I am not sure if the psychological dread matched the actual physical danger. No need to try again in any case...

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Combining coffee and/or peyote with Ayahuasca is dangerous. Don't do it.

I haven't paid notice to this warning before and so tried googling a bit. There seems indeed to be some interaction, but it's hardly deadly.

I found one paper about it https://www.jwatch.org/fw108796/2014/05/06/severe-hypertension-linked-caffeine-mao-inhibitor

"Dutch researchers describe a middle-aged man who developed severe hypertension (220/119 mm Hg) after starting treatment with the MAO inhibitor tranylcypromine. The patient's blood pressure and heart rate peaked twice a day after tranylcypromine intake (previously, his blood pressure had been well controlled with hydrochlorothiazide). The patient's exam findings were otherwise normal. However, he reported drinking 10 to 12 cups of caffeinated coffee daily for years."

The conclusion was rather mild:

"They conclude that providers "should consider limiting caffeine consumption" in patients with high intake who are using MAO inhibitors."

Definitely not as dangerous as combining amphetamines with MAOi, though I have no experience from that combo. However, I've been quite happy to take ayahuasca on a day that I have started with a cup of coffee.

RIMAs (reversible MAOIs like harmalas) are more forgiving than the irreversible pharmaceuticals that have been used as antidepressants in the past.