-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Phalaris Project
- Thread starter dithyramb
- Start date
Here is a plot twist...
With the flowering of my brachystachys', and a bit closer study I recognized I have been growing two different strains side by side. One large, robust strain that rivals aquatica in size and has large and clear panicles, the other small, more laterally branching and with darker tinged panicles. I had first found them in the wild not so far from each other but in different habitats (the first next to a cultivated field, the other one on a roadside) and thought the difference was only because of habitat difference. But now I see they maintain these differences when growing side by side in the same conditions
Since they are growing so close to each other, should I assume that hybridization is inevitable and that I have lost the original genetics of these for sure?
Pictures 1-2 the robust strain
3-4 the small strain.
With the flowering of my brachystachys', and a bit closer study I recognized I have been growing two different strains side by side. One large, robust strain that rivals aquatica in size and has large and clear panicles, the other small, more laterally branching and with darker tinged panicles. I had first found them in the wild not so far from each other but in different habitats (the first next to a cultivated field, the other one on a roadside) and thought the difference was only because of habitat difference. But now I see they maintain these differences when growing side by side in the same conditions
Since they are growing so close to each other, should I assume that hybridization is inevitable and that I have lost the original genetics of these for sure?
Pictures 1-2 the robust strain
3-4 the small strain.
Attachments
neurobloom
Established member
Here's another one of those updates while on the come down from an extract.
I found the culprit behind the cardio toxicity in my last reported extract. It was that new damn freak of aquatica with new morphology Which I never seen before. I can now confirm that it was the result of the parent clones breeding amongst each other.
Once I eliminated that specimen my extracts went back to how they used to be. Still as warm and powerful as I know it.
Ash from the joint rolled with more herb is more powerful than the joint itself! Need to add more herb to the freebase next time and inhale even slower.
It's frightening how powerful these extracts can get. I probably will never know the full power of this thing. I can't get the courage to take bigger hits...there seems to be no limit to how powerful this can get and am afraid I'd loose my sanity if I even come close to filling my lungs.. last hit I didn't even want to hold it longer than maybe 7 seconds. Shit got too Intense Beyond what I could ever expect. It's like the higher the dose the closer I get to God. Felt like I could vanish the nearer I got to him like an object trying to reach the sun it gets anihalated long before it gets there. I'm already vanished as a person on the peak but it felt like my soul was also going to vanish.
Every single time while on the come up of a strong hit I regretted it then was so glad I did it on the come down. Didn't even think my Psyche was able to handle such ride and come out of it in one piece. Proud of myself actually.
When it takes over during the come up it takes all over my body and mind ...takes over instantly and feel like am being snatched.
I don't feel like I gave this experience it's due in description and probably never will. My favourite aspect of the experience is feeling am in good hands and whatever happens during the peak meant to be..a total surrender.
There's hardly much countent hardly any closed eye visuals. The bigger the bit the less visual it gets actually. However open eyed
my visual perception of my surrounding changed dramatically there was no morphing but the depth of objects like how close, how far, where they are in 3D from rest of the environment gets skewed up.
I don't know how to deal with seeds. A lot of the seeds from last year germinated grown nicely and harvested to give same extracts as their parent clones except for that one freak of specimen which I had to eliminate due to toxicity. So am not sure yet if I should eliminate all seeds and just propagate by cloning or if I should develop a better extraction Tek to eliminate tyramines.
First pull with chloroform using minimal volumes and performing only one pull felt safe even with the toxic specimen Included in the harvest. Second pull even using only the parent clones had some noticeable cardiotoxicity but below concerning levels.
I found the culprit behind the cardio toxicity in my last reported extract. It was that new damn freak of aquatica with new morphology Which I never seen before. I can now confirm that it was the result of the parent clones breeding amongst each other.
Once I eliminated that specimen my extracts went back to how they used to be. Still as warm and powerful as I know it.
Ash from the joint rolled with more herb is more powerful than the joint itself! Need to add more herb to the freebase next time and inhale even slower.
It's frightening how powerful these extracts can get. I probably will never know the full power of this thing. I can't get the courage to take bigger hits...there seems to be no limit to how powerful this can get and am afraid I'd loose my sanity if I even come close to filling my lungs.. last hit I didn't even want to hold it longer than maybe 7 seconds. Shit got too Intense Beyond what I could ever expect. It's like the higher the dose the closer I get to God. Felt like I could vanish the nearer I got to him like an object trying to reach the sun it gets anihalated long before it gets there. I'm already vanished as a person on the peak but it felt like my soul was also going to vanish.
Every single time while on the come up of a strong hit I regretted it then was so glad I did it on the come down. Didn't even think my Psyche was able to handle such ride and come out of it in one piece. Proud of myself actually.
When it takes over during the come up it takes all over my body and mind ...takes over instantly and feel like am being snatched.
I don't feel like I gave this experience it's due in description and probably never will. My favourite aspect of the experience is feeling am in good hands and whatever happens during the peak meant to be..a total surrender.
There's hardly much countent hardly any closed eye visuals. The bigger the bit the less visual it gets actually. However open eyed
my visual perception of my surrounding changed dramatically there was no morphing but the depth of objects like how close, how far, where they are in 3D from rest of the environment gets skewed up.
I don't know how to deal with seeds. A lot of the seeds from last year germinated grown nicely and harvested to give same extracts as their parent clones except for that one freak of specimen which I had to eliminate due to toxicity. So am not sure yet if I should eliminate all seeds and just propagate by cloning or if I should develop a better extraction Tek to eliminate tyramines.
First pull with chloroform using minimal volumes and performing only one pull felt safe even with the toxic specimen Included in the harvest. Second pull even using only the parent clones had some noticeable cardiotoxicity but below concerning levels.
neurobloom
Established member
This would be my third extract since I eliminated the suspected toxic specimen and so far it's been so good. Back to usual.
Flowering didn't seem to change the alkaloids profile and ratio. In fact last extract later in the flowering stage was higher yeilding then the previous extract at the beginning of flowering.
Clones cut and planted late in the season has actually cached up in growth and did manage to flower.
I'm amazed how one specimen in early spring managed to give me 50 new clones and all of them have flowered nicely and gave me three harvests after countless harvests from the parent clones.
Dried Vs fresh doesn't seem to make much difference in yeiled. I also didn't fertilize the last three harvests and yeiled have been satisfying.
Since aphids infestation in my grass yeiled have been more consistent and in the higher end
Flowering didn't seem to change the alkaloids profile and ratio. In fact last extract later in the flowering stage was higher yeilding then the previous extract at the beginning of flowering.
Clones cut and planted late in the season has actually cached up in growth and did manage to flower.
I'm amazed how one specimen in early spring managed to give me 50 new clones and all of them have flowered nicely and gave me three harvests after countless harvests from the parent clones.
Dried Vs fresh doesn't seem to make much difference in yeiled. I also didn't fertilize the last three harvests and yeiled have been satisfying.
Since aphids infestation in my grass yeiled have been more consistent and in the higher end
Wouldn't it be amazing if a key for evaluating activity, potency, and safety could be deduced from physical characteristics of grass strains?
neurobloom
Established member
neurobloom
Established member
Decided to wrap the panicles in little bags from toilet paper to contain the seeds and maximise seed return. The paper should allow the panicles to stay aereated and dry. It also should maximise self polinisation. If I just give the panicles a notch every day to release pollen dust which should get trapped within the bags.
Attachments
neurobloom
Established member
Aquatica season is over. It's already showing signs of going into summer dormancy as seed heads are drying up.
Pic 1: first harvest by knocking the panicles manually inside a glass jar. I'm doing this daily now
Pic 2: Ants trying to dislodge the seeds from its panicles. I've been advised by a forage crops engineer that Ants on panicles are a good indication that seeds are ripe and harvest ready.
Harvesting while seeds are not fully ripe will affect seed germination rate and seedling size and vigour.
Pic 3: Aphids feeding off of the unripe panicles. This has lead to a substantial loss in seed return but then again aphids played a good role in enhancing the qualitative and quantitative parameters of the grass total alkaloids.
Pic 4: a honeybee foraging pollen from aquatica flowers (pollen dust attaches to its body by electrostatic charge) then the honey bee wipes it off it's body and wet it with nectar it brings in its abdomen from the hive to turn the pollen dust into a dough like consistency...then place it on its hind legs to carry back home to be fermented into the honeycomb as a protein reserve.
( As a beekeeper for over 10 years this is the first time I see bees forage on phalaris)
Pic 1: first harvest by knocking the panicles manually inside a glass jar. I'm doing this daily now
Pic 2: Ants trying to dislodge the seeds from its panicles. I've been advised by a forage crops engineer that Ants on panicles are a good indication that seeds are ripe and harvest ready.
Harvesting while seeds are not fully ripe will affect seed germination rate and seedling size and vigour.
Pic 3: Aphids feeding off of the unripe panicles. This has lead to a substantial loss in seed return but then again aphids played a good role in enhancing the qualitative and quantitative parameters of the grass total alkaloids.
Pic 4: a honeybee foraging pollen from aquatica flowers (pollen dust attaches to its body by electrostatic charge) then the honey bee wipes it off it's body and wet it with nectar it brings in its abdomen from the hive to turn the pollen dust into a dough like consistency...then place it on its hind legs to carry back home to be fermented into the honeycomb as a protein reserve.
( As a beekeeper for over 10 years this is the first time I see bees forage on phalaris)
Attachments
That Aquatica looks very different from the ones I see around here. Thanks for the photos.
neurobloom
Established member
dithyramb said:
I also did take note of this but still don't know what's it all about yet..
Regardless of the reason for the difference in morphology it's still a consistent and high yielding fast growing cultivar that can handle insane nitrogen levels without root burn. Makes me happy and proud
Can't wait for return of autumn rain
Th3k1d93
Esteemed member
Sidisheikh.mehriz said:dithyramb said:
I also did take note of this but still don't know what's it all about yet..
Regardless of the reason for the difference in morphology it's still a consistent and high yielding fast growing cultivar that can handle insane nitrogen levels without root burn. Makes me happy and proud
Can't wait for return of autumn rain
Aren't those Phalaris brachystachys, not Aquatica?
neurobloom
Established member
It's definitely aquatica am 100%
I suggest you visit the phalaris ID thread, also my first post on the nexus to leaen distinguishing between the different species.
I suggest you visit the phalaris ID thread, also my first post on the nexus to leaen distinguishing between the different species.
neurobloom
Established member
Yesterday I confirmed that aquatica seeds can break dormancy at 15 celcius in complete darkness. Simply placing seeds in wet paper towel at the lower chamber of the refrigerator is enough to start germination in three days.
Temperature outside is still in the range of 30 to 35 celcius during day. No temperature alternation between day and night was needed..
Also found that removing the seed outer shell speeds up the process.
I intend to transplant these germinated seeds to small pots in a cool place in partial shade and see if they manage to grow despite the summer heat.
Seeds are only two months old so they haven't fully gone through the ripening period (usually until late September in my my area) . Imagine if one could grow aquatica all year round.
I've got over 30g of seeds! Also bought some humic/fluvic acid for the transplant pots to improve soil texture and moisture retaining capacity to counter the summer heat
If this works I'd have gained two months of growth period
Temperature outside is still in the range of 30 to 35 celcius during day. No temperature alternation between day and night was needed..
Also found that removing the seed outer shell speeds up the process.
I intend to transplant these germinated seeds to small pots in a cool place in partial shade and see if they manage to grow despite the summer heat.
Seeds are only two months old so they haven't fully gone through the ripening period (usually until late September in my my area) . Imagine if one could grow aquatica all year round
. I've got over 30g of seeds! Also bought some humic/fluvic acid for the transplant pots to improve soil texture and moisture retaining capacity to counter the summer heat
If this works I'd have gained two months of growth period
Attachments
neurobloom
Established member
So far aquatica and canariesis have been the easiest phalaris seeds to germinate. Truncata is much more difficult to trick into germination and brachystachys is even more difficult than truncata. Canariesis has similar germination parameters to aquatica bit it never gave any alkaloids in my experiments.
I also have a huge amount of seeds, of brachystachys, unfortunately of hybridized two strains. Not sure if I will cultivate this fall, because of circumstances and limited resources.
One grass secret has clarified itself, that ageing or high temperature exposure clears it up (given that the species does have a possibility to be workable in the first place). Good to know for the plant that gives the purest DMT experience in the world, brachystachys.
DMT without NMT or 5 MeO NMT modulation can really hurt (emotionally) in ruehuasca. Exposure to naked Truth/Reality without upbeat support.
One grass secret has clarified itself, that ageing or high temperature exposure clears it up (given that the species does have a possibility to be workable in the first place). Good to know for the plant that gives the purest DMT experience in the world, brachystachys.
DMT without NMT or 5 MeO NMT modulation can really hurt (emotionally) in ruehuasca. Exposure to naked Truth/Reality without upbeat support.
neurobloom
Established member
dithyramb said:
You say the two strains coexisted near each other. If that's the case than why would they hybridise in cultivation but not in their original habitat?
Here's a paper on the genetic pool of phalaris and its origins using genetic markers
In the wild they existed a few hundred meters apart, one on a roadside, one next to a field. I recognized two different morphologies in my cultivated grass all growing in the same soil next to each other, matching the two original morphologies in the wild.
The roadside strain grows laterally and is short and small. The fieldside strain grows vertically and rivals aquatica in size (height, blade width and length, and panicle length).
Photos 1, 2, and 6 of roadside (=small) strain. 3, 4, 5 of fieldside (=large) strain.
The roadside strain grows laterally and is short and small. The fieldside strain grows vertically and rivals aquatica in size (height, blade width and length, and panicle length).
Photos 1, 2, and 6 of roadside (=small) strain. 3, 4, 5 of fieldside (=large) strain.
dithyramb wrote:
..This is a very nuanced, advanced level understanding of the variables and characters of multi-alkaloid plants..It echoes some observations made of the 90s era of experimentation (incl by G. St John, and also B. Labate et al) , a kind of neo-tech-curanderoism, with mainly self educated awareness of the variables. There was a bit more of this kind of awareness on the nexus a while back, it's still here but a lot quieter..
..i completely agree that NMT modulates or cross-modulates with other tryptamines...5-meo-NMT has been to me, for at least a decade, in the Top 5 list of 'Urgently needs proper activity assesment' alkaloids..As a predominantly Phalaris species alkaloid, this (excellent) thread is a good place to be reminded of it (rather than bump the below) ...
The only thing remotely like a confirmable human bio-assay report I'm aware of is nexian jamie (2013) in:
..however while 5-meo-NMT was the predominant alkaloid, it was still mixed here with some other alkaloids...Other than that there's no other human data. Some animal studies suggest noticeable entheogenic activity (Ghosal 1972, Taborsky et al 1963) . Like NMT it's been widely ignored, but is probably more potent
..and also relevant to Phalaris, and that 90s neo-shamanism - it's long been suggested that some of the more obscure beta-carbolines (which turn up in grasses and other plants) may be highly synergistic or even more active than suspected on their own...
Another aspect of the 'neo-curandero' approach is looking for plant characteristics that indicate variation in activity...in the indigenous world these may not always comply with modern botanical structural definitions, but were apparently effectively used...this can be as subjective as 'vibe'...perhaps "far fetched" but maybe not...The cloning of reliable species though is obviously the modern way forward ..and this was done with some valuable plants in ancient times too (by cutting, root division etc)
..the post i quoted though shows us the value of diversity in Phalaris strain selection, to meet different needs or preferences...
This is not to derail too much from finding pure DMT strains, which seems to be going well..just to remember there's more..
There's still much work to do in this rich field ..I thank all contributing in this thread for this important research!
..This is a very nuanced, advanced level understanding of the variables and characters of multi-alkaloid plants..It echoes some observations made of the 90s era of experimentation (incl by G. St John, and also B. Labate et al) , a kind of neo-tech-curanderoism, with mainly self educated awareness of the variables. There was a bit more of this kind of awareness on the nexus a while back, it's still here but a lot quieter..
..i completely agree that NMT modulates or cross-modulates with other tryptamines...5-meo-NMT has been to me, for at least a decade, in the Top 5 list of 'Urgently needs proper activity assesment' alkaloids..As a predominantly Phalaris species alkaloid, this (excellent) thread is a good place to be reminded of it (rather than bump the below) ...
The only thing remotely like a confirmable human bio-assay report I'm aware of is nexian jamie (2013) in:
..however while 5-meo-NMT was the predominant alkaloid, it was still mixed here with some other alkaloids...Other than that there's no other human data. Some animal studies suggest noticeable entheogenic activity (Ghosal 1972, Taborsky et al 1963) . Like NMT it's been widely ignored, but is probably more potent
..and also relevant to Phalaris, and that 90s neo-shamanism - it's long been suggested that some of the more obscure beta-carbolines (which turn up in grasses and other plants) may be highly synergistic or even more active than suspected on their own...
Another aspect of the 'neo-curandero' approach is looking for plant characteristics that indicate variation in activity...in the indigenous world these may not always comply with modern botanical structural definitions, but were apparently effectively used...this can be as subjective as 'vibe'...perhaps "far fetched" but maybe not...The cloning of reliable species though is obviously the modern way forward ..and this was done with some valuable plants in ancient times too (by cutting, root division etc)
..the post i quoted though shows us the value of diversity in Phalaris strain selection, to meet different needs or preferences...
This is not to derail too much from finding pure DMT strains, which seems to be going well..just to remember there's more..
There's still much work to do in this rich field ..I thank all contributing in this thread for this important research!
neurobloom
Established member
Winter extracts had that sort of modulation. Still hardly any visuals but it was a very smooth propulsion no edginess like during warm weather in autumn and late spring.
That might be the 5-meo-nmt playing part but who knows for sure. I didn't manage to send samples for analysis to endlessness this season but should be able to send some this winter.
I am much better equipped this time around:
Bought a watering kit with pressure pump for misting delicate germinating seeds and for foliar application of fertilizers and biostimulants. A bottle of silicon rich kelp extract with a bunch of amino acids, and a bag of ammonium sulfate .
Also acquired a lab grade precision balance 0.001g and a whole lot bigger farming space.
This years spring I end up with 50 clones from just one clone. So next spring I should end up with 2500 clones :d not to mention the 30g of seeds I harvested from these clones. Finally I should be able to make get yeilds in the several grams from phalaris.
Am also amending the sandy farm soil with clay so that the ammonium sulfate has better chance holding up to the top soil instead of leeching away.
That might be the 5-meo-nmt playing part but who knows for sure. I didn't manage to send samples for analysis to endlessness this season but should be able to send some this winter.
I am much better equipped this time around:
Bought a watering kit with pressure pump for misting delicate germinating seeds and for foliar application of fertilizers and biostimulants. A bottle of silicon rich kelp extract with a bunch of amino acids, and a bag of ammonium sulfate .
Also acquired a lab grade precision balance 0.001g and a whole lot bigger farming space.
This years spring I end up with 50 clones from just one clone. So next spring I should end up with 2500 clones :d not to mention the 30g of seeds I harvested from these clones. Finally I should be able to make get yeilds in the several grams from phalaris.
Am also amending the sandy farm soil with clay so that the ammonium sulfate has better chance holding up to the top soil instead of leeching away.
Attachments
Thanks for your post, nen888. I honestly crave this kind of awareness and communal discussion and exploration.
I only have educated intuitive guesses on the topic. Phragmites is very upbeat and euphoric, and also has this objective consciousness vibe vs purely personal deep diving of brachystachys, psychotria viridis, and diplopterys cabrerana. The 5-MeO NMT I am guessing plays an important role in this... 5 MeO NMT is most likely euphoric and objective/godly consciousness similar to 5 MeO DMT, but it should be milder in effect and safer to use with MAOI as the single methyl group makes it not as difficult to be metabolized as the double methyl group version.
Another overlapping molecule should be NMT, as it is built on NMT. And NMT I know to be warm and fuzzy, from A. confusa... Psychotria viridis has for a long time commonly been said to have only DMT but it is known now that it has NMT, even if in trace amounts. And I believe NMT has an important role in the warmth of Psychotria viridis compared to the coldness of Diplopterys cabrerana.
I only have educated intuitive guesses on the topic. Phragmites is very upbeat and euphoric, and also has this objective consciousness vibe vs purely personal deep diving of brachystachys, psychotria viridis, and diplopterys cabrerana. The 5-MeO NMT I am guessing plays an important role in this... 5 MeO NMT is most likely euphoric and objective/godly consciousness similar to 5 MeO DMT, but it should be milder in effect and safer to use with MAOI as the single methyl group makes it not as difficult to be metabolized as the double methyl group version.
Another overlapping molecule should be NMT, as it is built on NMT. And NMT I know to be warm and fuzzy, from A. confusa... Psychotria viridis has for a long time commonly been said to have only DMT but it is known now that it has NMT, even if in trace amounts. And I believe NMT has an important role in the warmth of Psychotria viridis compared to the coldness of Diplopterys cabrerana.