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Pharma failure what went wrong?

Migrated topic.

Denargle

Jared
SWIM and his friend parachuted 200mg of thh followed by 50 mg of spice 30 mins later. both felt very strange swims friend had very minor visuals. Swim waited 2.5 hours for it to kick it and nothing happened so SWIM decided to smoke a bowl of mary jane after doing so he became very paranoid and was in a very uncomfortable mindstate but did get some minor fractalization and one vision of an entity walking across the campfire. neither purged and neither had anything close to a strong dmt experience what went wrong?
 
Well for some people 50mg isn't very strong. For SWIM 50mg definitely wouldn't be strong. This has been said dozens and dozens of times in this forum.
Be careful raising the dosage though, the dosage/response curve is very steep.
On 120mg SWIM had a mildly visual, though highly mental, not super strong experience, just strong.
On 150mg he was GONE in hyperspace, overwhelmed, scared, non-existent for a few hours in a fully-psychedelic crazy experience.

How was it taken? SWIM has taken the harmalas and spice together in a two 00 caps dissolved in vinegar and that seemed to work extremely well.
Many people dissolve it in orange juice and get excellent results. SWIM has gotten better result taking it together than separately.
 
SWIM ingested the dmt and THH wrapped in toilet paper Swims going to up the dose to 100mg of dmt and try the vinegar method in caps and will post his results. when injesting sublingual spice does it take less dmt then pharmauasca to achieve a strong effect?
 
There is a whole thread about it, it's called mucosahuasca.

SWIM recommends oral because it is more reliable with dosing especially for the first few times.
 
q21q21 said:
How was it taken? SWIM has taken the harmalas and spice together in a two 00 caps dissolved in vinegar and that seemed to work extremely well.

could you explain this better please? what do you mean, two caps dissolved in vinegar? You mean you opened the capsules, threw the content in the vinegar and drank that? If so, why not just straight away dissolve the harmalas and spice in vinegar without having capsules involved? or am I understanding you wrong?
 
sorry for any confusion.

SWIM has all of his spice and harmalas in vinegar tinctures label with concentrations so he doesn't need to use his scale for each dose.

He simply put x number of drops of his DMT-acetate tincture in the gelcap with x number of drops of his harmine acetate tincture.
It ended up taking up 2 gelcaps, 1 with the spice and harmine, 1 with just harmine. The gelcaps needed to be swallowed quickly, vinegar softens them

The effects were felt about 15 minutes and produced slight visuals off of only 23mg, SWIM has taken 50mg in a previous experience with a caapi brew (after cooling) and "felt nothing other than caapi"

Can't say at all whether it would work better than dissolving it in orange juice but it seemed to help with the nausea, there was an URK! reflex a 2-4 minutes after taking it but it subsided very quickly.

Just drinking the (nasty) harmalas and DMT together dissolve in vinegar on another occasion produced the most insane trip SWIM has yet to experience.
He took 150mg of full-range DMT (thought it was only 75mg) and 160mg rue-harmalas.
The experience was overly intense and hellish.... but the nausea wasn't bad :D
 
thanks for the clarification!

sorry if this is specified in your tek but I couldnt exactly find it, but how concentrated do you make your tincture (or if you tested already, whats the solubility of dmt and of harmalas in vinegar?) ? How many ml will fit in a gelcap ?

I am interested in this because for pharma, I first used to just dissolve everything in juice, but the taste is horrible (and I also have some nausea.. but its not the end of the world, and with some psychedelics its a natural part of it). Then I started putting dmt fumarate and harmala hcl in capsules. It works fine, no taste no nausea, but is a bit weaker, even cutting the capsule end open. So I thought maybe a tincture in the capsule might make the absorption easier while still preventing taste/nausea
 
endlessness said:
thanks for the clarification!

sorry if this is specified in your tek but I couldnt exactly find it, but how concentrated do you make your tincture (or if you tested already, whats the solubility of dmt and of harmalas in vinegar?) ? How many ml will fit in a gelcap ?

I am interested in this because for pharma, I first used to just dissolve everything in juice, but the taste is horrible (and I also have some nausea.. but its not the end of the world, and with some psychedelics its a natural part of it). Then I started putting dmt fumarate and harmala hcl in capsules. It works fine, no taste no nausea, but is a bit weaker, even cutting the capsule end open. So I thought maybe a tincture in the capsule might make the absorption easier while still preventing taste/nausea

It's near the tail end of the tek, the instructions refer to "the vinegar" as the vinegar that has been used to salt the full-range DMT out of d-limonene/xylene/toluene.

The methods are simple and quite in-efficient but made for a simple kitchen


Evaporation:

poto.jpg



This step is just to concentrate the alkaloids down to a dense and more-workable product, the product can either be concentrated to a few milliliters, or evaporated fully and redissolved in a minimal amount of vinegar

-Any method that heats the product and doesn't go over 100C will work fine, food dehydrator, crock pot, simple double boiler, rice cooker works very well.

-SWIM mostly uses a baking pan suspended over a boiling pot of water, a simple double boiler, which works well but just be careful the water underneath doesn't dry up.

-When evaporating the vinegar it will get redder and redder and when the water is almost gone it will start to get thicker. You can stop it when it starts getting a little thick or fully evaporate it. Either way just make sure it doesn't get heated over 100C then remove from the heat.

NOTE: pouring tiny amounts of liquid doesn't work very well, using droppers/basters is the best way to transport them

-If you evaporated it down just to a liquid, your tincture is ready to go. (unless you need to concentrate it more)
Just mix it around and make sure most of the goo in the pan has been dissolved. Add minimal amounts of water to dissolve if it isn't a clear solution.

-If it was fully evaporated the goo should be re-dissolved in a MINIMAL amount of vinegar.
The product requires some mixing around but easily dissolves in the vinegar.



The tincture can vary largely depending on your technique, it can be anywhere from 1-8mg per drop (20mg to 175mg per ml), 4-7 per drop is common after this step. The maximum concentration so that it is still a thin water-like liquid is about 8-9mg per drop.

The more concentrated the tincture, the quicker it is to prepare for smoking, but precision goes down.
IE: if a tincture is 8mg per drop then one can't make a 20mg dose, only 16mg or 24mg while 5mg per drop can make 15mg, 20mg or 25mg. But 3 drops will evaporate faster than 5. SWIM's tinctures are 4-5mg per drop and work very well for speedy evaporation and accurate dosing.


Measuring the tincture:

Before using the tincture it is recommended to establish either a quantitative or qualitative measurement of the concentration.

Quantitative Concentration (numerical):
Evaporate 5-10 drops on a FLAT surface and when fully evaporated scrape up and measure the product using a precise scale.
Repeat 2-3 times for an average concentration and divide by the number of drops for the numerical concentration per drop

Qualitative Concentration (subjective):
This method is much more advised for smoking and not recommended for pharmahuasca/mucosahuasca
Use the method below to evaporate 2 drops of the tincture and test the effects of the product when used.
If the effects are not as strong as desired then try 3 drops, then 4, 5, Etc. until adequate effects are achieved.
Concetration will then be
* drops = Mild
* drops = Strong
* drops = Breakthrough
* drops = ????

If the tincture is not at a satisfactory concentration then you can concentrate it down some more.

This step is often not needed, after the first few tries the tincture is at a high concentration after the first concentration, so much so that after measuring he will often dilute it slightly because he likes his tincture 4-5 per drop (96-120mg per ml)

Caution: Color is NOT an accurate guide to concentration since different MHRB and different pulls have more or less of each type of DMT.

doppers.jpg

Left = Tincture with 70mg per ml~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Right= Tincture with 77mg per ml


-Your new Jimjam-acetate tincture can be sealed either in a herbal tincture bottle or in any small container and measured with a dropper (by drop) to be used for pharmahausca, mucosahuasca or freebased for smoking.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





For harmalas they can simply be dissolved in vinegar. Harmine seems to have a max solubility of about 50mg per ml before precipitation starts while harmaline can be concentrated at nearly 100mg per ml.
 
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