pharma ingestion methods

[endlessness]

So how do you guys ingest the harmalas and dmt?

I must say I love pharma but Im getting more and more put off by the taste of dissolved harmalas+dmt. I've tried redissolving in different kinds of juices, or dissolved in coke, and with any of these methods, just the thought of the taste nearly makes me feel nauseated.

What other ways can one ingest? I thought about capsules. DMT fumarate in capsules (with a hole poked on the bottom) could work I guess, but I imagine that freebase harmalas in capsules will be, first of all, hard on the stomach, and secondly, innefective (taking too long for it to redissolve in stomach acid and finally make its MAOI action). Unless someone tried and can tell me otherwise.

The other option I thought would be redissolving the freebase harmalas, salting manske-style and having the harmalas HCl, and then maybe capping that instead. Disadvantage would be, first of all, the trouble of redissolving and resalting and drying that again. Other disadvantage would be having the salt contamination and therefore innacurate dosing (unless of course one just redissolves a known amount of harmala freebase and calculate based on that, so for example re-salting a known number of freebase doses and then just dividing the manske precipitation in the according number of doses)

What else can you guys think of, suggest, or say from personal experience? Do you guys also feel put off by the pharma taste?

 

[jamie]

in coke endless?:d eeeww!

I have never had pharma, only ayahuasca. But I will try this summer once I get some more rue. I will prob dissolve it in a shot of freshly squeezed orange juice.

 

[endlessness]

in coke endless?:d eeeww!

I have never had pharma, only ayahuasca. But I will try this summer once I get some more rue. I will prob dissolve it in a shot of freshly squeezed orange juice.

lol yeah i dont ever drink coca cola , im against buying anything from that company I had some in the fridge that my dad bought when he visited me, so I thought, well, why not try (also to see test whole 'phosphate hits faster and stronger' idea which was not true in this experience)


yeah I tried a few times in freshly squeezed OJ, it doesnt dissolve very well in small amounts of it (you'll see, some harmalas tend to stay undissolved, even after plenty of stiring), but eventually after mashing it up and mixing and adding a bit more OJ it works. But the taste is really repulsive IMO, it sort of lingers in my head, even drinking normal orange juice now makes me remind of it which is not good.

 

[joebono]

Harmala extracts from FV or the popular auction site can easily be gelcapped in 200mg doses. I take my 200mg dose of harmala alkaloids and then 30 minutes later take freebase DMT in another gelcap. This works perfect every time and my trips are usually four to six hours with no nausea. I have mixed the DMT in OJ, but found no difference in the trip when compared to swallowing a gelcap. You can experience pharm with nothing but gelcaps.

Since I finally got around to trying caapi, I will not use any other harmala anymore. I brew a caapi tea, reduce it down to half a shot glass and chug it. The taste is gross, but I hold my nose and keep gum and mouthwash nearby to use immediately. Twenty minutes later I take the DMT in a capsule. Works perfect everytime. The vastly impressive difference between caapi brew and other extracts is worth the minute of dealing with the terrible taste. Your trip will have you glowing if you use caapi.

 

[endlessness]

So in what form are the harmalas from FV, freebase or salt?

and yeah I do know how great caapi is, gotta love it It has a special place in my heart, same with traditional chacruna+caapi ayahuasca. But so does pharma has its place, I like it's practicality and accurate dosing. None substitutes the other for me, I got a big heart for psychedelics heheh

but tell me something, you seriously ingest the freebase DMT in caps? Man when I tried ingesting undissolved dmt freebase it was very harsh on my stomach, I definitely wont repeat that again. Fumarate might be ok, though, as soon as I get some capsules Im gonna try that out.

 

[joebono]

Yeah, I guess we are all different, but I always ingest freebase DMT in gelcaps and never have a problem. You might have better luck with fumarate. I don't know if the harmalas are fb or salt.

 

[Samadhi-Sukha-Upekkha]

To my knowledge, the Caapi Copy is free base.

One method of dealing with nausea from Caapi and from ingested hallucinogens (esp. DMT and psilocin) is to take several grams of shredded or pulverized FRESH ginger root. If you like, you can make ginger tea by pouring boiling water over the shredded root and adding honey to taste, but the anti-nausea compounds are contained inside the solid bits of ginger. Water does not extract them, but the human digestive tract can. Take a few tablespoons of the fresh ginger about 2 hours before ingesting any alkaloids, and then take another dose of a few tablespoons along with the alkaloids.

I know that's a lot of fresh ginger to get down, but it's worth it to those who don't desire a purge, or if the nausea is too mild to cause actual purging. (It's really irritating to feel nauseated for hours but without ever throwing up and feeling better.) If you wrap the ginger in a piece of bread and wash it down with some liquid, you'll never taste any of the ginger.

4-6 total tablespoons, divided into halves as mentioned above, combined with acidifying the harmalas and the DMT in citrus juice or cola, should knock the nausea out.

There's no real need to turn the DMT into a fumarate if you already have the free base. Dissolution in orange juice or another acidic drink should be fine. You could even dissolve it in a small amount of lemon juice and make a little cup of lemonade. But if you already have the fumarate, there's no reason not to use it. Just be sure to acidify the harmalas if you're really struggling with the nausea, because every little bit helps out your stomach. (Though perhaps if the stomach is being extremely rebellious, it's a sign of needing a purge? Sometimes the body knows what you need...)

 

[endlessness]

thanks samadhi.. I think I didnt express myself well... Nausea is not really my issue, my issue is the taste I think nausea can be an integral part of the psychedelic experience, and I take it as a physical reminder of my own mortality. Im not affraid of purging either, if it comes it comes.

What I really dont like is the taste of dissolved harmalas in the exact method you mentioned (dissolved in citrus juice or cola)... The taste is really repulsive IMO, I rather preffer the ayahuasca taste than the dissolved harmalas in juice. Thats why I was considering the capping method but 200mg freebase alkaloids in capsules seemed intuitively to be unnefective and hard on the stomach. Joebono says otherwise, but at least on the stomach issue he also thinks freebase dmt is ok, while for me I definitely felt it way too harsh when I tried. I wonder if anybody else here has experience with this ?

As for the fumarate, I wouldnt be turning the freebase into fumarates, would be rather the result of a limo+fasi extraction.

So question back to harmala capping. can caps hold liquids? I ask because I wondered of the possibility of making an acidic solution with harmalas and fitting into caps, but I dont think 200mg harmalas will dissolve in any acidic solution so well that would fit all dissolved in a capsule (and I also imagine that caps wont really work for liquids).

So this leaves me, as far as I can see, with the option of salting the harmalas and capping (anybody knows of any other solid and easy to make harmala salt form? any info on harmala fumarates for example?), or taking them as freebase also in capsules, and hoping it is effective and not harsh on stomach

 

[picatris]

Hi endlessness,
Have a spearming chewing gum in your mouth. If from the right brand and intensity it will make everything taste like spearmint and sorbitol. This technique was able to almost fully disguise even the foulest taste of them all: 5-MeO-DIPT (nothing, really nothing compares to it) A big plus is that it also helps your nausea.

 

[joebono]

Hi endlessness,
Have a spearming chewing gum in your mouth. If from the right brand and intensity it will make everything taste like spearmint and sorbitol. This technique was able to almost fully disguise even the foulest taste of them all: 5-MeO-DIPT (nothing, really nothing compares to it) A big plus is that it also helps your nausea.

Yeah, if I am going to drink something nasty I won't breathe out of my nostrils for a few minutes after drinking it. I also immediately rinse with water, then mouthwash, and then chew a piece of powerfully flavored chewing gum. After all of this, I begin breathing out of my nose again and all is well with the world.

 

[Nature Boy]

Try Acai berry juice. Very sweet. Nearly kills the taste. Makes the brew quite palatable!

N.B.

 

[endlessness]

thanks for the tip, but I'd rather not waste the precious açaí haha.. Funny you mention eating concentrated açaí pulp is my absolute favourite tripping food

btw, lately I have been putting dmt fumarate and harmalas in capsules. What I do is convert a given amount of freebase harmalas to HCl sals, by dissolving it and reprecipitating manske-style. The precipitation always has a lot of salt contamination, but since I know the amount of pure harmala weight beforehand I can just divide accordingly. So because of salt-filling, it ends up taking 2 capsules for fitting the harmalas and the dmt.. I just mix it all up, fill the capsules, poke a hole (or actually cut open one end) and swallow.

Ive been having little or no nausea this way, no problem with the taste either. The disadvantages are that it takes at least twice as long to hit (instead of half an hour, maybe one hour of come up), and that the peak is a little bit weaker. Duration seems to be same, maybe capsules make it last a bit longer but difference doesnt seem very significant in the couple of tries I had so far.

All in all I think its worth putting in capsules, its very practical... I wouldnt do it with freebase dmt and neither with freebase harmalas, though, that would most definitely be very harsh on the stomach and maybe not as effective pharmacologically

 

[Nature Boy]

I used to encapsulate shrooms. Once I discovered chocolate as a vehicle, I totally gave up the hassle of making and swallowing 12 - 14 00 caps!

Same with the Acai berry juice. Mix both the fumarate salt and the CaapiCopy into 30cc's and down the hatch, no problem. Never going back to OJ or other weaker, less sweet juices. Try it!!!

N.B.

 

[plumsmooth]

Hey Endless, you're of course talking about Rue Harmalas right, not caapi.
Because it looks as though THH does NOT precipitate with Manske.
But I think you know that already.

A changa that was not happy was redissolved in 40 Drop 10% Phosphoric with additional Caapi alk to bring ratio to 2:1 Harmaloid/full range.
This was probably more acid than necessary, but in regards to various hummingbirds phosphoric techs that consume 20 drops per serving,
2 drops per serving seemed reasonable.

This changa also had 1 gram of Mckenna Caapi Leaf in it.
The changa was boiled and filtered to end up at about 160ml.
1 tbl is about 75/37.5; and
2 tsp was dissolved in 4-6 oz Kombucha Tea.

No taste was detected whatsoever except the kombucha tea.

In retrospect probably the Kombucha itself is enough to convert the Caapi base to salt.

 

[DudeMeetTyler]

I just mix it all up, fill the capsules, poke a hole (or actually cut open one end) and swallow.

just wondering if you could clarify this a bit more please.. do you cut a slice in one end or cut the whole end off?

also do you still use capsules for pharma? if not, why?

Thanks

Edit - so i asked in chat and this was endlessness response

I would say really cut it off or make the hole quite big otherwise absorption will not be very good. I cut it off but put in my tongue with the open part turned to the outside of my mouth, then just follow with big sip of water, its so quick there is no time to feel the taste, and if you put it carefully in your tongue, before you swallow the water there shouldnt be anything falling out. I like to follow it with some warm acidic tea to help dissolving, as well as eat one piece bread with butter or anything really, to stimulate digestion

 

[Hyperdimensional Cuttlefish]

Hmm, I thought gelatin dissolved rather quickly in the stomach and it's very acidic environment. As an experiment, I just dropped an empty cap into warm vinegar (5% acid) and it dissipated in less than 5 minutes.