Pharma questions

[AlchemicalGnostic]

From my understanding if you use d-limonene for an extraction it will pull DMT fumerate and instead of doing a FASA to convert it to FB I could just use the DMT fumerate for a pharmauasca. And I do this by dissolving harmalas and dmt fumerate in water and just drink it?

Also I hear people dissolving DMT and harmalas in Orange juice and this also makes a good pharmauasca. This works because the citric acid in the orange juice converts the DMT to DMT citrate and this is orally active?

Am I understanding this all correctly?

Thanks in advance for all of your advice!

Peace 8)

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Jorkest's D-Limonene and Fumaric Acid Approach - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Is this the TEK you are using?

It's the fumaric acid (Fumaric Acid Saturated Water=FASW) used with the d-limonene in the work-up that causes one to yield the fumarate salt of DMT, not the using d-limonene as a solvent...

While in the plant the DMT is in its oxalate or tannate salt form, during the work-up the base used converts the DMT to its free-base form, and the fumaric acid used in the work-up converts this to the fumarate salt of DMT.

-eg

 

[AlchemicalGnostic]

Yes that is the tek I was referring to. Thanks for elaborating that as for I must have read the tek wrong.

So for using D-limomene evaporating leaves an oily substance and doing the FASW just helps the product more of a crystalline?

I was under the assumption that d-limomene pulled it as a salt and the FASW converted it to a FB.

So for making pharma, do I have a basics down?
Dissolve harmalas and DMT fumerate in water and drink or dissolving harmalas and DMT FB in orange juice converting the FB to a citrate to make it orally active?

 

[AlchemicalGnostic]

Also when dissolving harmalas in Orange juice/lime juice, should i use harmala FB or HCl?

I have both and I don't see why either wouldn't work.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Yes that is the tek I was referring to. Thanks for elaborating that as for I must have read the tek wrong.

So for using D-limomene evaporating leaves an oily substance and doing the FASW just helps the product more of a crystalline?

I was under the assumption that d-limomene pulled it as a salt and the FASW converted it to a FB.

So for making pharma, do I have a basics down?
Dissolve harmalas and DMT fumerate in water and drink or dissolving harmalas and DMT FB in orange juice converting the FB to a citrate to make it orally active?

The DMT is converted into a salt so it can become water soluble so it can be removed from the D-limomene using water. In the original tek, acetic acid was used, giving the acetate salt of DMT, however, the acetate salt is "gooey" and hard to collect, so fumaric acid was used to produce the fumarate salt, which forms a crystalline end product which is easier to collect and convert to the free-base

I was under the assumption that d-limomene pulled it as a salt and the FASW converted it to a FB.

No, fumaric acid is an acid, you need a base to convert a salt to a free-base, you need an acid to convert a free-base to a salt.

in that TEK the NaOH converts the DMT tannate or oxalate salts (which are naturally in the plant) into DMT free-base before the D-limomene is even introduced...

Step 1
Take your 80g MHRB and break it up into small pieces about 3/4 of an inch long and no more than 1/4 of an inch wide. The smaller the better.

Step 2
Put about 25g into the coffee grinder and grind that stuff to powder. Do this for the rest of the root bark.

Step 3
Fill your large jar with 1200ml of water and add 80g sodium hydroxide. Stir this until it becomes clear and then when it has cooled down, CAREFULLY pour this into your 1/2 gallon HDPE jug. Then stuff in your powdered root bark. Put cover on the gallon jug and HOLD THE CAP WITH YOUR THUMB and shake the piss out of it, so that everything mixes together real nice. Make sure your thumb is holding the cap down really good, you do not want lye all over yourself or your home!

The area in bold highlights where NaOH is used to convert the DMT salts into their free-base, the NaOH also serves to breakdown the plant cell walls, freeing the DMT.

Next, the D-limomene is used to "grab" the DMT free-base, which is no longer water soluble, but which is soluble in d-limonene

Step 4
Add between 75-100ml d-limonene to your 1/2 gallon jug with the lye tea in it. Shake the piss out of it. If the layers do not separate(like they are supposed to) add a few more grams of lye right into the jug. This should break any emulsions. Mix this stuff together for awhile, you want as much Spice to get into the d-limonene as possible. Also, adding a bit of heat should increase yields.

Next, after all your DMT-freebase saturated D-limonene pulls are pooled, the DMT is converted into its fumarate salt, this makes the DMT water soluble, so it can be extracted from the d-limonene using H2O, which can then be evaporated yielding crystalline DMT fumarate...

-eg

 

[AlchemicalGnostic]

Thanks for the explanation eg! The thing that had me confused was I thought the citric acid In the d limonene converted the dmt back into a salt.

This post can be deleted as I found the answers to my pharma questions.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Thanks for the explanation eg! The thing that had me confused was I thought the citric acid In the d limonene converted the dmt back into a salt.

This post can be deleted as I found the answers to my pharma questions.

No citric acid in the limonene. Limonene is a hydrocarbon, a cyclic terpene.

However:

Limonene takes its name from the lemon, as the rind of the lemon, like other citrus fruits, contains considerable amounts of this compound, which contributes to their odor -Wikipedia

I really wish another member could have answered here.

I know chemistry, so I can understand what I am reading, but I've never preformed this type of work-up...

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

There's way easier methods, is there a particular reason why this one appealed to you?

...I mean, it's interesting chemistry, and I can respect the thought that went into producing such a work-up, but there are much simpler methods.

-eg

 

[AlchemicalGnostic]

There's way easier methods, is there a particular reason why this one appealed to you?

Well since I thought D-limonene had citric acid that converted the dmt back to a salt, I was gonna skip the FASW and use the d-limonene product for some pharma. But now I'll just use FB in some lemon juice.
I usually do nomans tek or cybs max ion tek with great success.

But thanks for setting all this straight for me. Definitely cleared up a little confusion.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

There's way easier methods, is there a particular reason why this one appealed to you?

Well since I thought D-limonene had citric acid that converted the dmt back to a salt, I was gonna skip the FASW and use the d-limonene product for some pharma. But now I'll just use FB in some lemon juice.
I usually do nomans tek or cybs max ion tek with great success.

But thanks for setting all this straight for me. Definitely cleared up a little confusion.

There is no citric acid in limonene. However, perhaps you realise that putting FB into lemon juice will produce DMT citrate from the citric acid present in lemon juice, or rather, a solution containing protonated DMT ions and deprotonated citric acid ions, which is what we call citrate. Also there will be ascorbate from ascorbic acid.

*Check out the acid/base chemistry section of the wiki to increase your understanding of these matters.*


Limonene works for extraction but tends to leave intractable lemony residues that mean your end product has this fuggy, lemony taste with a hint of old socks which requires far too many recrystallisations to overcome. It's a nice challenge for a chemical tinkerer, i suppose!

 

[AlchemicalGnostic]

Thanks for the reply down!
I actually just picked up some toluene today. checked the MSDS 100% toluene. evapped entirely with no residue.
i have a month old mhrb solution that i got a .8% yield with naptha. Hopefully I can pick up the rest of those alks in there.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

There's way easier methods, is there a particular reason why this one appealed to you?

Well since I thought D-limonene had citric acid that converted the dmt back to a salt, I was gonna skip the FASW and use the d-limonene product for some pharma. But now I'll just use FB in some lemon juice.
I usually do nomans tek or cybs max ion tek with great success.

But thanks for setting all this straight for me. Definitely cleared up a little confusion.

There is no citric acid in limonene. However, perhaps you realise that putting FB into lemon juice will produce DMT citrate from the citric acid present in lemon juice, or rather, a solution containing protonated DMT ions and deprotonated citric acid ions, which is what we call citrate. Also there will be ascorbate from ascorbic acid.

*Check out the acid/base chemistry section of the wiki to increase your understanding of these matters.*


Limonene works for extraction but tends to leave intractable lemony residues that mean your end product has this fuggy, lemony taste with a hint of old socks which requires far too many recrystallisations to overcome. It's a nice challenge for a chemical tinkerer, i suppose!

In post 7 I mentioned the lack of citric acid in limonene.

The other day I was given some oral cannabis oil, this stuff had a terrible taste of D-limonene, I was curious, was this lemonene used in the extraction, or is lemonene a terpene that was derived from the cannabis plant itself?

-eg

 

[downwardsfromzero]

The citrussy strains of cannabis will likely contain limonene as a sizeable aroma component. A more lemongrass-like aroma could be down to citral.

 

[AlchemicalGnostic]

Maybe it was both, extracted with d-limonene on a citrussy cannabis strain

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

The citrussy strains of cannabis will likely contain limonene as a sizeable aroma component. A more lemongrass-like aroma could be down to citral.

When I asked the dispensary worker who gave it to me he said he did not now how it was extracted, but also mentioned citral when I brought up limonene.

Very interesting.

D-limonene can be ingested with little consequence*, and can also be used to produce these edible cannabis extracts.

I'm guessing that d-limonene was used to produce the edible cannabis extract, and that the flavor was not resulting from an intentional extraction of terpenes. Interesting stuff though.

-------

*

EXPOSURE AND TOXICITY: Skin irritation or sensitizing potential was reported following widespread use of this agent in various consumer products. In humans, oxidation products or metabolites of d-limonene were shown to act as skin irritants. The potential occurrence of skin irritation necessitates regulation of this chemical as an ingredient in cosmetics. In humans, d-limonene has demonstrated low toxicity after single and repeated dosing for up to one year.

https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+4186

-eg