Phlux-'s Mesc HCL Cleanup - Questions

[Touche Guevara]

I found a flash drive on the bus today, and thought the contents of this document may be of interest to the Nexus!

"SWIM had performed 69Ron's D-Limo cactus extraction up to the point of pouring off the saturated limonene from the cactus. Since he lives in a damp climate, he decided to pull with dilute HCL water. This produced a brown crystalline substance which was to be purified.

As described in Phlux-'s tek, the material was dissolved in a small amount of hot water and then a large amount of acetone was added. Immediately, a precipitate formed. The solution was decanted and evapped to yield slightly purer mesc HCL.

SWIM now has quite a bit of these precipitates, from all his pulls, and is wondering how to efficiently separate the remaining actives from these precipitates. Is there a specific ratio of acetone:water that will preserve the majority of the mescaline, while crashing out the unwanted material?

Or, put another way, if your mission was to rescue a gram of mesc from 10 grams of this precipitate, how would you do so?"

Thoughts?

 

[Virola78]

Assuming 99% IPA is not available to you i cant help you. I dont think you can separate the non-acetone soluble molecules from the mescaline by using acetone and water.

From what i have understood the water is only needed to completely dissolve the crystaline structure of the crude extraction product. This way also the unwanted molecules that were trapped within the mescaline crystals will come into contact with the acetone. When the polarity drops as a result of adding 'copious amount' of acetone, the mescaline cant remain dissolved, therefore will form new crystals (recrystalisation), crash out. Too much (%) water -> too much mescaline remains dissolved. So the more acetone, the better.

Copious amount, plenty, abundant, mucho

Perhaps the non-acetone soluble molecules are not unpleasant? Is it only the acetone soluble alkaloids that are 'sedating' or bodyload?

 

[Touche Guevara]

Thanks for your reply, but I think there is a misunderstanding. The original post references this thread, by the wise man Phlux- Phlux's Quick Mescaline Hcl Recrystallization tek. - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

The procedure here is to dissolve crude mesc HCL in a bit of water, add copious amounts of acetone, and then filter the junk that precipitates. The liquid can be evapped to yield relatively pure mesc HCL, but as mesc HCL is insoluble in acetone, it's a given that some will crash out with your junk. The quest is to find a surefire way to separate the two compounds.

Unfortunately, nobody seems to know what the mystery precipitate is. It isn't cellulose, I don't think, since it's soluble in H2O.

 

[Phlux-]

non mesc alkaloids ? eg macrogonuses sedating alkaloid/s

 

[Touche Guevara]

Thanks for the reply, Phlux-!

The source was p. torch. Perhaps the precipitates should be tested for activity. One would think that this genus wouldn't produce much in the way of precipitate, if it was primarily to be comprised of non-mesc alkaloids. If, on the other hand, the precipitate is active, then the Phlux- Cleanup tek would seem to be superior than evapping and then washing impure xtals.

 

[Virola78]

..The procedure here is to dissolve crude mesc HCL in a bit of water, add copious amounts of acetone, and then filter the junk that precipitates. The liquid can be evapped to yield relatively pure mesc HCL, but as mesc HCL is insoluble in acetone, it's a given that some will crash out with your junk. The quest is to find a surefire way to separate the two compounds.

So the quest is to find to what concentration of acetone the mesc-HCl remains dissolved??
Let's say for example mesc-HCl remains dissolved in 96% acetone, but starts to crash out at 97%...

Would a HCl solution react with acetone?

 

[Touche Guevara]

That is exactly the question, Virola. Thanks for restating it more clearly for me

 

[Virola78]

^ was hoping you could answer my question...:?

If there is such concentration of acetone that can be used for precipitation of unwanted molecules... then indeed, it might be possible to skip one evaporation step. (leaving only one final evap, after last IPA wash..)

Perhaps this or something like this is possible:
1) Evaporate the salting solution to a known volume (wherein the mesc remains dissolved.)
2) Bring the known volume to a desired concentration of acetone by adding a calculated volume of 99% acetone (the bomb).
3) Dropwise add more 99% acetone untill the first crystals of mescaline start to form.

In theory of course...
and very roughly..
lol.

But if HCl reacts with acetone, that could be a problem..
idk.. Guess i will have to do more homework :roll:

EDIT: wouldnt work because even if the 'known volume' is only 10ml, then still it would require ALLOT of acetone.

 

[burnt]

Here is a discussion of some purity checks after acetone and IPA clean ups.

san pedro alkaloids part 2 - Generic - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

The estimates are rough and SWIM did not follow acetone + water method so obviously things will be a bit different.

Also this was pedro not torch so again things will be different. Gives some numbers to throw around though.

 

[Virola78]

^Yes i remember those..
Very usefull information, and that is certainly an understatement.
Too bad not so many people seem to realise what you did there lol.
So i feel i should thank you again