Phragmites Australis

[Professor Paradise]

SWIM is curious about DMT in Phragmites Australis. He was wondering if someone could simply grind up the rhizomes and soak them in acetone or something of the like.

Dmt it soluable in acetone, so if any DMT were present in the rhizomes one would just need to evap the acetone and end up with a product containing DMT?

Edit: Perhaps freezing and thawing first and after letting the acetone evap, pulling with some warm naphtha to leave behind other things that the acetone will extract.

 

[endlessness]

Problem is that analysis has shown a host of other compounds of unknown activity and toxicity, along with small amounts of DMT (or possibly none). Maybe there is a time of the year, or growing condition, or particular genetics, which could result in more DMT and less of other unwanted alkaloids, but at this point this is unknown.

If you do think about testing some phragmites, the least you have to do is get a couple of reagents like marquis and ehrlich, and do a small test extraction and use those reagents to get a bit of an idea what you might be dealing with.

Grind and soaking in acetone would probably NOT pick up DMT since it will be in acidic form, you`d need to grind and soak with some base before, then pull with acetone, which would pull DMT and other alkaloids. But then you have the problem of the other unknown alkaloids. You could also try to do a recrystallization with naphtha/hexane/heptane with whatever you have left, and use the reagent testing to compare with the crude acetone extract..

Such tests would be appreciated since it would help increase our knowledge about these plants but I don`t suggest you try to smoke or ingest it due to possible toxicity, wait before we have studied some more, and have taken a look at your tests and other tests, maybe get some more analysis done, et.

 

[Professor Paradise]

Alright, yes. Boiling in water and acetic acid first, pulling with acetone, evap and re-x with naphtha.

(Wassel et al. 1985) mentions that the rhizome contains DMT along with 5-MeO-MMT, bufotenine and gramine. Also states Alkaloid content in the rhizome seems to be highest when it is grown in a submerged position. (guess I'll need to pick up some hip waders)

Naphtha shouldn't pull gramine or bufotenine since they're insoluble.

Not to fond on ordering reagents.

 

[endlessness]

No no, before pulling with acetone you must add a base, like calcium hydroxide, sodium carbonate or something. You can use an acid before that but not necessary at least for the first tests

Do you have that wasson paper? I think no amounts were stated, is that correct? Were there any other alkaloids present?

Johnny Appleseed tested with TLC and found nothing, but maybe it was in very small amounts or there is a big variance depending on specimen...

Maybe you can order to a friend? They are totally legal, shipment should be discreet, links to different suppliers in link in my signature if you`re interested. I highly recommend to start getting into different testing methods as something that can be useful throughout your life

Im not sure about 5-MeO-NMT`s solubility, pharmacology nor toxicity, but you`re right about bufotenine and gramine`s solubility.

 

[Professor Paradise]

So would SWIM just mix the sodium carbonate around with the ground up material and then soak it all in acetone?

SWIM doesn't have SWIMs hands on the paper at the moment, but does not believe there were %. (sadly.)
In all my research, I've yet to see any % on phragmites.

Well, obviously SWIMs supply of phragmites hasn't started growing yet (not even close), so SWIM may get their hands on some reagents, though I'm doubtful. The Chinese have been using it for tea for centuries, SWIM feels pretty safe saying that somebody wouldn't be harmed by doing a bio-assay of the extracted product. (if there is any product)

 

[Professor Paradise]

Ehh... SWIM thinks it would be better trying phalaris first. At least phalaris is actually known to have alkaloid content (Sometimes). Seems like there are mixed reports on both of these plants, but phalaris definitely has more positive reports than phragmites.

SWIM didn't realize how hard the rhizomes of phragmites are to work with, though wonder if SWIM got them were they were submerged in at least a couple inches of water, if SWIM could just pull them out. Seems unlikely, though...

 

[DreaMTripper]

You can get Ehrlich from some clubx stores in Australia if you are concerned about discretion and personal information storage.

 

[Professor Paradise]

You can get Ehrlich from some clubx stores in Australia if you are concerned about discretion and personal information storage.

SWIM doesn't live near there, but thanks for the input!