Phragmites Research

[king.tryptamine]

I know there have been previous threads about phragmites, but they were from almost 10 years ago, and with the promising results I've gotten with it, I'd like to start a new thread on it for those who are currently experimenting with it or are researching it.

Ive gotten some pretty pure products from Phragmites through very a basic extraction technique. Ive gotten pretty good yields and will be continuing research soon. Ive extracted crystal product from it as well as very pristine white powder. Ive simply used vinegar as the acid, distilled water, sodium carbonate (super washing soda) as the base, and naphtha for defatting and as the solvent. Initially, I had used tap water when extracting and evaporated the naphtha off the end product and was left with many small clear, sparkly crystals. Im not exactly sure that it was dmt, but it was definitely psychoactive. For the next extraction, I used purified water and did freeze precipitation to separate the dmt from the naphtha and got the white powder. This was definitely dmt. I only use the roots of phragmites, and I always use them while they are fresh. I typically harvest when they are first starting to grow in. My first extraction only used 6 roots and had a fairly abundant yield. I am excited for what the future holds with this plant. Feel free to ask questions for more specification, and the anticipation of hearing about other people's experiences with it and research on it is killing me. Also, does anyone have any tips on increasing the yield? You can never have enough spice. I will be adding more information when they start growing in where I am. I will be measuring everything this time and will be trying to figure out yield percentage and the dmt content in this plant.

 

[kerelsk]

You might check out the Ayahuasca Analogs book available on erowid compiled by from Entheogen Review articles. There was some work done, but Phragmites is though to be a poor source of tryptamines in general.

That's awesome if you're getting some good results. Be careful as there are some non-DMT tryptamines as I understand which can have a different safety profile.

Of course you can always use the search function here as well.

Best of luck!

 

[king.tryptamine]

Ive also been reading from multiple sources that Claviceps species can grow on Phragmites. Has anyone seen this or heard about this? This is something I will keep an eye on too and will report back if I find any. I will be doing an extraction from the Claviceps too given that I find them. If Phragmites is indeed rich in dmt and other tryptamines, Id assume that the Claviceps would also be rich in ergotamines.

 

[king.tryptamine]

You might check out the Ayahuasca Analogs book available on erowid compiled by from Entheogen Review articles. There was some work done, but Phragmites is though to be a poor source of tryptamines in general.

That's awesome if you're getting some good results. Be careful as there are some non-DMT tryptamines as I understand which can have a different safety profile.

Of course you can always use the search function here as well.

Best of luck!

Thank you Kerelsk. From what Ive read, using naphtha is a good way to avoid those compounds (gramine and hordenine). As far as it being a poor source, Ive read a lot of reports saying otherwise. Some did take that stance, but Ive also read reports about the many factors affecting the alkaloid content of Phragmites, and I could see that depending on those factors, it might not be the best source, however having had good yields using it myself, I would say that it is a pretty good source. I will find the report that listed the factors and post the source and a quick summary of the factors. Id also like to add that I know there are better sources, but Im also considering the convenience of Phragmites in my assessment of it being a good source.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Welcome to the Nexus.

It's very interesting to hear of your results.

Where were your roots growing and how did you harvest them?


Be careful with Claviceps extraction, accidental exposure could be very nasty indeed.

 

[dithyramb]

Hi king tryptamine. Thanks for sharing your discovery. I have a question for you: have you noticed seasonal variations in the dmt content of the roots? Also, what percentage dmt have you detected?

 

[king.tryptamine]

Welcome to the Nexus.

It's very interesting to hear of your results.

Where were your roots growing and how did you harvest them?


Be careful with Claviceps extraction, accidental exposure could be very nasty indeed.

I harvested the roots from land, about 20 to 30 feet from the river. Its a small river. To harvest, I simply dug them up and separated them from the stalk.

And to answer dithyramb, yes, there are seasonal differences. That is one among several factors I've read about, and that one in particular, I can verify. I start harvesting the roots in late may and keep harvesting till the yield starts to drop, which is sometime in july or august.

I cant seem to find the source, but a few factors are, the alkaloid content is highest when the roots are submerged, when they start maturing, the alkaloid content drops, using dried roots doesnt work either, they need to be fresh. I also read something about distress from the soil having an effect, but I cant exactly remember what it said since I couldn't find where I had originally read it.

As far as yield percentages, I would have to figure out the percentage my extraction method yields to accurately be able to say what the content percentage of the roots are. I would also like to add that previously, I have not measured a single thing because I wasnt really concerned with the science, more or less just the spice. I have decided that this year I am going to be more scientific about it though. I will be reporting my procedure with exact measurements, and I will be reporting my yields and converting them into a percentage.

I found a pdf saying that phragmites has a 5.2% nitrogenous compound content, however its not all just alkaloids. Subtracting out the estimated amount of nitrogenous proteins from that number, I was left with 3.69% nitrogenous compound content in phragmites. That is simply semi-educated guess work though, and Im guessing that not all of that 3.69% are alkaloids either. From what I can tell though, Id still guess that the alkaloid content is pretty high.

Working back to the Claviceps extraction, I definitely know not to spill that stuff or get it on my skin. My question is, do you think latex gloves would do the trick? And should I use latex gloves when harvesting the Claviceps too or should I simply use tweezers when handling them?

I want to apologize for my previous formatting, and I will try to format it like this in the future so the reports are more readable.

 

[dithyramb]

Hi king tryptamine. What do you mean by "when the roots are submerged?" Submerged under water? Is that a phase of development? Does depth seem to affect the potency, or is the root just under the surface of the soil (or perhaps water?) potent enough?

More than ten years ago I experimented for a whole year with phragmites root to no avail. Also not being able to find substantial reports on successful yields, I conluded that phragmites is not a practical plant to work with, that any dmt content is too tiny to render this plant practical to work with. Now the 3.69% alkaloid content that you mention is a HUGE amount, in much contrast to all that. If indeed phragmites can become a practical source of spirit molecule and it just requires some secrets on strain, region, and phase of development to be cracked, that would bring on a HUGE revolution!

 

[dithyramb]

Hi again king tryptamine. I was never able to get a hold of the studies on the alkaloid contect of Phragmites ausralis roots. If you happen to have it, would you be willing to share it?

Also, I have not come upon reliable sounding success reports. Do you have links to any?

 

[king.tryptamine]

Hey dithyramb. I'll clarify a few things for you.

Submerged means when the roots are underwater. Not only is the alkaloid content higher, but it is also easier to harvest that way. I get my roots from land though, and it is plenty potent.

3.69% is the content of nitrogenous compounds not including proteins. I do not think that all of it is alkaloids, but I would still say that there is a pretty high alkaloid content. The alkaloid content is not 3.69% though.

I have not been able to find a report on the exact percentage content of alkaloids in phragmites, but I can send my source that analyzed the contents so you can see exactly what it said.

The second attachment is other compounds that could be making up that 3.69% of nitrogenous compounds beside the obvious dmt, bufo, gramine, hordenine, etc.

As far as successful reports, Ive read a few, but honestly, I don't really feel like digging around for them at the moment. If you look up phragmites dmt extraction, you can probably find some. I know that I've had good results with it personally though.

 

[dithyramb]

Thank you, king tryptamine. Have you noticed any differences in alkaloid content between hard/dry rhizomes vs wet/soft rhizomes? And what about thin rhizomes vs thick rhizomes? Finally, what about deeper parts of the rhizomes vs rhizomes close to the surface?

And what about harvesting at dawn vs other times?

 

[dithyramb]

And what about the flowertops? Does anyone know of any research or bioassays done on them?

 

[king.tryptamine]

Thank you, king tryptamine. Have you noticed any differences in alkaloid content between hard/dry rhizomes vs wet/soft rhizomes? And what about thin rhizomes vs thick rhizomes? Finally, what about deeper parts of the rhizomes vs rhizomes close to the surface?

And what about harvesting at dawn vs other times?

Ditgyramb, from what I can tell, dried rhizomes don't work. I have never used them myself, but from what I have read, they have to be fresh. I have been using fresh rhizomes because they grow right by me and I just jump into extracting. I'm not entirely sure about thin and thick rhizomes. The roots have to be thick enough to pull from the ground straight up without breaking, but that still isn't very thick seeing as that happens in mid may by me, which is when I begin harvest and extraction. As far as deeper and surface level rhizomes, I haven't separated the two, so I have no idea. I just pull the roots, separate them from the rest of the plant matter, and extract. I haven't tried harvesting at too many different times of day, but I find that around 9 to 10am is best by me. There may or may not be a bioassay somewhere of the flower/seeds, but I haven't looked into it. If you decide to look into it and find one, definitely post it here. I wouldn't mind taking a look.

 

[king.tryptamine]

I harvested 69.78 grams of fresh roots. I will be making slight modifications to my original procedure, but will be following my original procedure and will be measuring my yield. I also will measure how much of everything I am using. For those that are interested, I will be reporting back in a few days.

 

[dithyramb]

Very interested... Waiting.

 

[dithyramb]

Waiting for your reports, king tryptamine.

The Phalaris season is over. I will be studying phragmites in the coming weeks. I had started off my entheogenic quest 11 years ago with rue and phragmites without tryptamine success. It is time to be diligent and thorough and complete this study. I hope I am not late for this year.

 

[dithyramb]

I harvested close 1kg of fresh rhizomes today. The reeds still show no sign of flowering, which is unexpected for me. I just found out that there is at least one more species of phragmites in the wider area that I live, P. frutescens, and this species flowers in the winter.

How do you break down the rhizomes before boiling, king tryptamine?

 

[dithyramb]

One thing I have learned from trying different DMT containing plants with rue, especially in my recent phalaris discoveries, is that each plant is unique and not all DMT bearing plants are suitable to be ayahuasca analogues - to synergize with rue. Some are toxic, and some just water down the depth of rue, and in some cases effectively cover up the guiding spirit of rue. This might not be a problem for people seeking DMT experiences.

The most extensive compilation of phragmites and rue experiences I have come upon so far is here : Common Reed (Phragmites) - DMT for all!

İt seems to be highly variable.

My guess is that there is much genetic variation, different subspecies and hybrids, and even possibly different species (like the recently confirmed P. frutescens). İf a potent strain is found, would it be effective for my purpose, İ don't know yet.

Fortunately, Phragmites australis has been found to be very safe and healthful without maoi.

İt is much less studied than phalaris. Crazy people like me might make some discoveries here.

 

[king.tryptamine]

One thing I have learned from trying different DMT containing plants with rue, especially in my recent phalaris discoveries, is that each plant is unique and not all DMT bearing plants are suitable to be ayahuasca analogues - to synergize with rue. Some are toxic, and some just water down the depth of rue, and in some cases effectively cover up the guiding spirit of rue. This might not be a problem for people seeking DMT experiences.

The most extensive compilation of phragmites and rue experiences I have come upon so far is here : Common Reed (Phragmites) - DMT for all!

İt seems to be highly variable.

My guess is that there is much genetic variation, different subspecies and hybrids, and even possibly different species (like the recently confirmed P. frutescens). İf a potent strain is found, would it be effective for my purpose, İ don't know yet.

Fortunately, Phragmites australis has been found to be very safe and healthful without maoi.

İt is much less studied than phalaris. Crazy people like me might make some discoveries here.

Im glad you are joining me in this research project. I had a failed extraction this time around, however I am thinking maybe I will get a reagent to test the species I am using and will do my harvesting in the mornings from now on.

It is up to people like us to pave the way to exploration and enlightenment seeing as this isnt exactly a mainstream topic.

I have multiple species by me too and there are many variables to this, however, it could just be a ritual circumstance if you understand what I am getting at.

I will do some research into what reagents I can use to test a solution and I will report back. Sorry I took so long to report back this time.

I had a very psychedelic day actually. I cant even explain it. I was in tune with the universe. June 18 is like that for me every year actually.

Anyway, as far as breaking it down, I chop the roots up with a knife, and then I blend those pieces, only a few at a time though so I dont damage the blender. Those roots really are some tough bastages.

Good luck dithyramb. By the way, I use naphtha for the pull so that it will extract the dmt and leave the gramine in the solution. I hope that is a helpful hint.

 

[dithyramb]

Hey king t. Thanks for your report.

Was this th first time you had failure with phragmites?

Did you harvest from a different spot or from reeds of different growth phase than usual?

Were they submerged in water?