Research Phyllodium pulchellum Workspace

[downwardsfromzero]

Hi there HC!

The only reason, really, is tradition. Silly, I know - and there are other numbering systems, including the one you outline, that would be more logical. In fairness, it's the first non-shared atom of the largest hetero-ring nearest to the atom with the highest priority, in this instance. As far as true systematic naming goes, things can get ugly pretty quickly :lol: You would really rather work with 9H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole??

Great that you've got seeds. I look forward to news of your experiments.

This plant would make a valuable addition to my upcoming greenhouse, for sure!

 

[HolderChert]

Hi there HC!

The only reason, really, is tradition. Silly, I know - and there are other numbering systems, including the one you outline, that would be more logical. In fairness, it's the first non-shared atom of the largest hetero-ring nearest to the atom with the highest priority, in this instance. As far as true systematic naming goes, things can get ugly pretty quickly :lol: You would really rather work with 9H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole??

Great that you've got seeds. I look forward to news of your experiments.

This plant would make a valuable addition to my upcoming greenhouse, for sure!

Thank you for the explanation! The only nomenclature knowledge i have to go off of is what they teach at uni. Still have allot to learn :d .

I will certainly update here as soon as I have anything to contribute. I've read the seeds could take months to germinate, but once sprouted they tend not to be too fussy.

Thanks again!

 

[mycosis]

Hey all...quick update. I collected 5 grams (dried) of fallen leaves from my pulchellum plants and ran an STB extraction on it. I was left with maybe 1/2mg of a yellow/orange ball of soft wax. It smelled right and I was seeing good precipitation during freeze/evap so I tested it with Erlich reagent. The first lane on the left is the pulchellum extract, middle is a known good DMT sample from MHRB, and the last lane on the right is coffee. It's hard to see in the picture but there is a very faint hint of blue/purple in the first lane and it is more or less lined up w/the DMT sample in the middle. These plants are less than one year old.

Thanks!

 

[The_Alchemist]

Alchemist did AB on that Phyllodium pulchellum (that was his first attempt, maybe he made some mistakes, and it turned out one of the used container was not HDPE2) and got yellow wax as well (extracted amount out of 1 kg was extremely small like 0.036% if remember correctly).
Embarrassingly foolish and risky, but he took extremely small amount (residue of it on his finger) and rolled in a cigarette, he started sweating, felt slight upper abdominal pain, as cigarette was only started, so not sure what was extracted there but be cautious!

 

[FredGarply]

My plant is making many seeds. And frankly, it's now large enough to bioassay..

 

[azoth]

This last day I tried to exstract Dmt from 500g Dried Phyllodium Pulchellum Root, Desmodium Pulchellum Root, Pai Qian Cao Root.

The Substance was raw so I started grinding it up in my coffe bean grinder since I already had ruined my GF Blender xD There are sticks in the pack so they destroyed the grinder fast. It resulted in a raw substance exstraction.

I updated my GF and and a friend of mine along the proces on snapchat and I really forgot to document along the way in a good way but I got some pictures from the exstraction I will share. If I am able to upload the pictures not so shure how I do that but today I will learn.

The exstraction was done with vinegar and naptha de ionised water and sodium hydroxide ( I used 35% vinegar essense ) and also 7%. Will only use 7% in later exstractions becaus I feel it burned my other exstraction I was testing out, long story short it ended up being cosmetic bark that yieled almost nothing. it melted awey. anyways.

I boiled it in 200ml vinegar 35% and 2000ml de iothe first 2 houre deionised water. And repeated the proces a total of 3 times for a total of 6 houre boil. Storing the liquid from each 2 houre boil in mason jars.

After the boiling step was done I filed up my 2000ml erlenmyer flask and proceded with adding 120g of liquid made sodium hydroxide approximately 200ml. then started to shake the flask a little bit. I really need to get a rubber flask kork stopper, anyways.

After the liqid sodium hydrocide was added and left for a little time to settle I started adding naptha. approximately 500ml was added and the seperation started to occur.

The flask was then put in a semi boiling water bath to speed up the proces. I bought my erlenmyer flask at my local brewing store and was sceptical about the quality of the flask durability. So not to break the glass, as I did with one of the mason jars pouring hot liquid from one of the 2h boil. I was a little carefull when I did this.

The flask is a SIMAX flask so I belive it to be of good quality.

My pyrex dish was bussy from the 4oz cosmetic root bark exstraction so I used as a container one of the brewery equipment to contain the exstracted Dmt liquid and then but it in the freezer, Remembering just now in this moment It has only been in the freezer for 12houre. I need to put it back in. Pictures are coming!

The yield was a yellow orange ice slush I have pictures of it and the ice slush had a wheight of 26g.

I just put the orange Dmt liquid back in the freezer as I already had started to start the proces of drying it. I now have the liquid in my pyrex dish. Tinking that the steel container I had to use maby not was the best choice for crystalising the Dmt in. Any knowledge about this? I will wash the Dmt in naptha and recrystalize it for use when finished.

I think I will try to post the pictures now! My apologies for any misspellings my keyboard is set to my language and I dont have english autocorect enabled.


Best Regards
Azoth

 

[Jan e Kharabat]

I have a P. Pulchellum but it hasn't been doing so well. I had it in a pot and left it outside in the summers for a few weeks, it rained quite a lot during that time and the soil remained wet for too long. After that, the leaves started to fall off, most likely an infection I thought. I brought it back inside, kept it dry, watered only when the soil was really dry, but it's been months now and the poor thing still hasn't recovered... The growth is very slow, and the leaves soon turn light brown, dry out, and fall. I recently repotted it, I checked the roots and found no signs of rot, but the roots have hardly grown in the past 6-7 months. Right now I have it under a grow light, the light is strong enough and most likely isn't the problem.

Can anybody help me figure out what the problem is?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Nice attempt there, azoth - still, it looks as though you have a lot of water at the bottom of the extraction because there should not be all that ice. I would suggest redissolving it in a little more warm naphtha and making sure you separate the naphtha from any residual water. A Pasteur pipette will be your friend here.

I do get the feeling that your steel container may have contributed to the formation of condensation, especially if it was not covered, e.g. with plastic film. Its higher thermal conductivity also means that the contents cool down much more quickly. This hinders formation of large crystals. Otherwise, stainless steel is a compatible material.

According to wikipedia, the alkaloids are contained in the herbaceous material, whereas the roots contain mostly triterpenes. It may be that the roots simply weren't analysed for alkaloids, however - verifying this in the literature would involve digging out some rather obscure references though.

Dasein - Phyllodium pulchellum is in the Fabaceae and likely would benefit from a boost to its symbiotic bacteria. My thinking is that through getting waterlogged in the pot the bacterial population in the root nodules (?) may have become damaged.

 

[modern]

So Im doing an extraction of 19g of dry leaves harvested from plants around 5 months old. Some leafs are from even younger. Since quidding caused pain I abandoned that idea.

So I pressure cooked quite a lot of water with vinegar for 15 min. Water was golden and was reduced. The second pull done for the same amount of time with slightly less water (1-1.5L?) and was fairly clear so 2L from first pull was enough for a majority of the alkaloids (visually). I reduced everything down to 300 mL. I did a black light test in PC but no luminescence like with harmalas. After reduced color is a very dark amber to brown color. I filtered twice and tomorrow will start with a defat since I can clearly see some oil slick when it cooled.

I plan on doing 1 pull with heptane and another with xylene.

 

[modern]

So the defat is great and I'll be doing it with my cacti going forward since it makes for a perfect separation from the xylene without emulsions. I defated 3x with 30ml each time saved to see if I can reuse it for future defats. After the defats were completed I added lye water until a color change from the amber to black like with mimosa. I tested the ph and likely overshot since around 13. I proceeded to do the heptane pull. I only did a single pull with 30ml 1:10 ratio with the aqueous layer. I mixed a few times after letting it settle then collected. I decanted again to remove the small amount of water remaining and put it in the freezer to test if anything would precipitate out.

I then added the xylene at 50ml. It seems to make an emulsion but it was just bubbles which would all join. It resulted in a very attractive gold shine to mixture. I allowed it to sit and within an hour or so seperated perfectly. I mixed again and left it overnight. Mixed once more and within around 30 minutes sperated. I pulled and decated again to seperate any water.

I took the heptane fraction form the freezer after around 20h-24h (didn't mark time) There seemed to be a few crystals but after pouring off it might have been ice cystals. A hcl water solution was prepared and 10ml was added to the heptane to backsalt. I saved the water layer and stored the heptane.

The xylene was also backsalted with hcl water using 20ml and stired a few times and collected returning xylene to be reused.

I put a black light on the hcl water solutions and the heptane fraction had a very slight blue tone (very weak) and the xylene fraction hcl water had a very slight blue/green tone. VERY weak but present.

So the aqueous lye solution I decided to make acidic to re alkalinze with calcium hydroxide and do ethyl acetate pull just for the sake of it. After adding HCL to make the solution acidic a precipitate formed. I was reminded of manske since the solution is now basicly a salt brine. The appears of the precipitate of a brown powder similar to harmol or dirty harmine. I decided to filter and collect the brown precipitate to see if there is any black light reaction. I doubt it is plant material but who knows. The acidic aqueous layer returned to the starting brown amber color and I also noticed the tea smell returned. After filtering out the brown precipitate the solution is now a very nice red tone.

It'll be a few days for the hcl water fractions to evaporate. Does 5-Meo-DMT not freeze precipitate like nn-dmt? I searched and only found an old endless post back in 2008. I thought maybe not saturated enough but I blew the heptane and saw those 'white mist/clouding' form like with nn-dmt saturated heptane. Perhaps I didn't leave it long enough or cold enough?

 

[Jan e Kharabat]

It'll be a few days for the hcl water fractions to evaporate. Does 5-Meo-DMT not freeze precipitate like nn-dmt? I searched and only found an old endless post back in 2008. I thought maybe not saturated enough but I blew the heptane and saw those 'white mist/clouding' form like with nn-dmt saturated heptane. Perhaps I didn't leave it long enough or cold enough?

5meo does crystallize and quite easily in my experience, but it has to be pure enough. The oily texture of synthetic 5meo is mainly due to impurities (tested by isolating the impurities and vaporizing them, minimal activity despite the significantly large amount). A better way to check the presence of DMT or 5meo is by using benzoic acid or fumaric acid for backsalting. You can simply dissolve benzoic acid in some heptane and add a drop, even very small amounts will produce a clouding. I use this method to see if the bark is really exhausted. Last time I made around 20 pulls, I was still getting around 100 mgs of benzoate by 15th pull which went down to 20mg by the last 2.

 

[modern]

Thanks... did a little research and benzonic acid is regulated and controlled here by civil and federal agents so not gonna buy. Maybe just not saturated enough since I did only start with 19g dry.

So after filtering the brown precipitate I put it on a watch glass. The aqueous solution of hcl salt brine mix was added calcium hydroxide. Another precipitate formed which is likely calcium chloride since it is a large volume. The pH quickly overshot to 12-13 with not much powder. I'm unsure if sodium hydroxide is formed but previous experiments showed me that ethyl acetate doesn't break down when formed this way. In any case I'll add ethyl acetate after filtering off this precipitate.

I'll end up with 3 different fractions... heptane, xylene and ethyl acetate. Not sure what I'll do with them since I don't have any test kits or TLC plates but I did enjoy this extraction. Showed me how my understanding has improved as well as my techniques.

The hcl salts ill just be added to my backlog of allergy tests I'm doing. I just am very wery since I like to do these tests with harmala tea at 200mg.

 

[modern]

I will slowly just not sure how to measure since I don't trust my scale to measure sub 10mg weights. Also I don't even quite understand the effects since not visual and mostly described using allegories. I've enjoyed exploring the traditional psychedelics at very low doses with 200mg harmalas but with 5-meo I'm not sure what to expect since mainly read reports of vaporizing and rarely oral... I do see sublingual doses with them being inconsistent.

Phyllodium Pulchellum has been on my list for quite some time after hearing jilians report. I do find it strange that there are no other reports even extractions other than his first. I do know that there is documented extractions it contains the alkaloid but considering a single plant source that is orally active seems quite interesting but even his report is very vague to the effects. I guess its just something you need to try yourself.

 

[Jan e Kharabat]

You can make benzoic acid from sodium benzoate which is usually not regulated. Simply dissolve it in hot water and add HCl. Recrystallize the precipitate in boiling water.

 

[modern]

You can make benzoic acid from sodium benzoate which is usually not regulated. Simply dissolve it in hot water and add HCl. Recrystallize the precipitate in boiling water.

thanks a bunch man. I did see that for sale when I searched but assumed I would need to distill or something to separate the acid. So sodium chloride is formed and release hydrogen and benzoic acid precipitates out. Filter out and recrystallize in hot water. Thanks a bunch I always have doubts on certain forms since I don't have the strongest chemistry understanding. This will be quite useful as a different salt form for my extractions and experiments. I'll add it to my list.

To not deviate too much...
Here is the precipitate that formed upon acidifying with hcl forming the salt brine acid solution. I'll redissolve in water test with blacklight and attempt manske using salt brine to see if precipitates again. I may be completely off but I'd suspect this is the beta-carbolines? Might be completely wrong so I'll test later and see if it activates oral DMT in the 10mg range. This I assume would be a single 'dose' since this is the range Julian shared his tea dose being active 20g dry being 40-50g fresh. Lots of assumptions here but seeing as plant is not toxic I think it's safe. After 2 NP pulls most of the 5-meo should be extracted and I won't mix with hamalas so even if still present should be compeltely safe. I'll update in a week after I get around to ethyl acetate pull (100 mL) and share if anything remains after the hcl waters evaporate.

 

[Transform]

So sodium chloride is formed and release hydrogen and benzoic acid precipitates out.

To be clear, no hydrogen gets produced - a proton (positive hydrogen) from the HCl attaches to the benzoate anion (negative ion) to produce the benzoic acid, which is insoluble in cold water. The remaining sodium and chloride ions stay dissolved in the water.

Another precipitate formed which is likely calcium chloride since it is a large volume

Calcium chloride is exceedingly soluble in water, sodium chloride will precipitate before the calcium chloride does.

Interesting work you're doing, stay safe!

 

[modern]

To be clear, no hydrogen gets produced - a proton (positive hydrogen) from the HCl attaches to the benzoate anion (negative ion) to produce the benzoic acid, which is insoluble in cold water. The remaining sodium and chloride ions stay dissolved in the water.


Calcium chloride is exceedingly soluble in water, sodium chloride will precipitate before the calcium chloride does.

Interesting work you're doing, stay safe!

You're right... I mixed it up with calcium carbonate. Hmm I wonder what precipitated out... regardless I tossed it since nothing should have precipitated and was just gunk.

EDIT: So most probable precipitate that formed is calcium hydroxide which is unreacted after neutralizing the HCL. The interesting thing is it pulled some brown 'gunk' along with it which threw me off.

 

[modern]

So the precipitate that came from the hcl salt brine might have just been plant material since it didn't dissolve in fresh water even after acidified again. I filtered once more and then tried a salt brine NOTHING came out. I then adding lye and acidified again and nothing so I was probably wrong.

As for the calcium hydroxide liquid after spending the entire day filtering it was finally clear. But after adding 100mL of ethyl acetate it broke down OR my ethyl acetate isn't ethyl acetate. I bought from a different seller. I'll let this sit for a while but think it was a loss on this EtOAc fraction. If anyone has idea let me know... there is no separation of the aqueous and solvent layer so I think just a loss.

I'll just work on evaporating the hcl water fractions... next week I'll update.

 

[modern]

So the heptane hcl water fraction finished evaporating. It yielded a around 1mg or less of a yellowish red goo. The yeild is lower than documented but I did use very young material. After scraping with a blade a clear wax remained on the glass. Long white fibers are from filter paper most likely not a crystal. The smell is very similar to dmt extracts (plastic flower) BUT it is less plastic and much more floral. Much nicer than DMT extracts maybe because its in HCL and not freebase? I'll try smelling DMT HCL to attempt to compare. Some documentations show young plants have DMT and 5-meo is domanent in more mature plants.

I licked the watch glass and it tasted like calcium hydroxide smells. Like a tortilla flour... no burn or strong after taste. I had a rush not un-similar to tryptamine BUT I'm pretty sure it was just the rush the unknown of ingesting an unfamiliar compound. I didn't have any fear or expectations of feeling any effect considering collected material is under 1mg. I've yet to try 5-meo so the rush will be present for the next few attempts.

Watch glass was washed and now the xylene hcl water fraction is evaporating and will take another few days since I'm not adding heat.

 

[Transform]

Ultrapure DMT freebase will be virtually odourless, close to that the odour is sweet, floral and- well, simply wonderful! Getting a stable HCl salt would seem to be indicative of 5-MeO since N,N-DMT.HCl is too hygroscopic to even solidify (according to the literature).