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Physical effects of too much dmt?

Migrated topic.
I accidently OD'ed in a sense on DMT once. It was without a doubt the most terrifying few minutes of my life. Now, years ago now I poisoned myself with Iboga whole root (couldn't walk for 3/4 days), had an incredibly harrowing smoked Salvia 20x trip on LSD (a very painful experience of being squashed between infinite dimensions) and was on a plane that looked pretty much like it was going to crash in South Africa. Now, with the latter experience, I was actually fairly chilled. The experience was completely out of my control, nothing I could do would change the situation, so why worry, was my logic at the time (I will admit the fear increased markedly the last 10 seconds before landing/crashing, I really didn't want to burn alive).

None of these experiences can compare to that pure, exquisite, unrelenting, ferocious, cosmic terror of that smoked DMT experience. A friend and myself had consumed some Syrian Rue and some DMT freebase, but the experience was very chilled, pleasant but low key. So with the assistance of my friend, I loaded up the pipe, I think the dose may have been around 100mg...whatever it was, way too much...I smoked it, one big toke, then another...already, looking down the pipe at my friend and the room I noticed it was already more transformed than I'd ever experienced before on DMT. I noticed this weird rippling in the air (only seen it twice before...once on a VERY intense pharma trip, once on a 50g caapi/1g Copelandia mushroom/250mg DMT experience). He encouraged me to take on final toke, Terrence McKenna style...and I did so. Within a few seconds, I was panicking. It felt like I was getting electrocuted, that my nervous system had just been cranked into a system of much higher voltage than it was built for. The universe just exploded, and I was thrown into an incredibly alien dimension that I could not understand or navigate in any way...my primal fear circuits had been jacked on in a very powerful way...I felt like I was being probed by something very alien, kinda like an alien abduction actually (but not a happy clappy one). I didn't last long, but I would not wish that experience on anyone...incredibly, amazingly menacing. Not recommended! 😉
 
Once again, people, I was asking for what could happen PHYSICALLY when taking a too high dose of dmt. I already assume that there is absolutely no limit to how much any psychedelic could psychologically screw you up. Can we just talk about the physical aspects of the drugs, and its toxicity.

And so far no one at all has said anything about my original question about allergic reactions. Perhaps I should start a new thread with different wording because this thread has failed.
 
I asked the same question you did once and i was met with the same ' your an idiot ' response.

even though you were perfectly clear about wanting to take a large dose and not that you were not going to take 1 gram in a dose but rather just wondering what would physically happen alot of ppl here aren't gettin it .

i think a lot of people on this site need to realize that the fact that you are on the nexus asking these questions proves beyond a doubt that you are in fact intelligent and should not be considered stupid.

i took 150 mg of freebase on an empty stomach first thing in the morning with 200 mg harmalas and although it was an overdose and i experienced terror like most people will never know the end result of the trip was very rewarding and i would do it all over again.

basically here's the deal as far as i can tell , physical effects at that dose are unknown but the mental effects would be impossible to handle and don't ever attempt a huge dose without a few strong friends to tie you down and keep you from killing yourself when it gets hairy ( and it will )

i wish you all the best in your journey

peace
 
I suggest you guys re-read the thread because there werent only 'youre stupid' answers. The OP specifically said (and now it was edited) he was considering taking a monumental dose, and he mentioned the 1-2g dose, so OF COURSE people questioned him. You cannot expect others to think it was just hypothetical because the wording of the first post was definitely pointing to the fact that he was really considering doing it.

This forum is all about safety and respectful use, and someone is talking about 'monumental dosage' of this sort, what do you expect the answers should be? You want everybody to just cross their arms and let this thread go unnoticed just because they dont know with a tenth of a degree accuracy what happens in each one of your organs if you take that exact dose? No of course not, people see a possible liability, someone with apparently little experience with dmt considering taking a 'monumental dose' (your words, not ours), very likely endangering himself (whether it is psychologically and/or physically, directly or by risky behavior in a confused state of mind) and potentially endangering this whole community:

( "young man died/jumped off building/ended up in the hospital after using DMT. Police says he participated in online community dedicated to these drugs/he used mimosa hostilis to 'manufacture' dmt and politicians are now calling for a ban on this dangerous dangerous plant" )

Were some of the answers maybe too harsh? Yes. Does this invalidate the constructive criticism and genuine concern that is also present in those or other answers? No!

A lot of answers mentioned about going up gradually and very significant tips from experienced people that have taken this substance several times in many kinds of (reasonable, even if very high) dosages, and the OP should def take those extremely valuable opinions in account instead of keep insisting on the "but nobody told me exactly what happens physically and they called me stupid so I didnt get the answers I wanted in the thread" kind of argument.

Also, as it has been mentioned over and over, people dont have specific answers about physical safety because it is UNEXPLORED AREA! Anybody who has taken a very high but 'safe' dose (like 200, 300mg or something) knows by their own experience that thinking of 10-folding this cannot possibly be of any benefit, and thus if the OP wants to take a high dosage, then he should go slowly up.

If he doesnt consider taking the monumental dose then he shouldnt say it in the first post. Also, he should have understood by now that there are no scientific and neither personal experiences that we are aware of in anywhere near these dosages (if there were you can be sure scientific articles would have been pointed out already in this thread), that the highest dosages taken seem to be around 400mg, and people that have taken in this dosage have passed through some very tough times and dont seem to ever want to repeat the experience.
 
I remember there was commotion on ayawaska forums a while ago after an ayawaska-related death was reported.

It turned out from the autopsy that the guy had consumed about 1g of DMT along with his ayawaska, which the forum members believed must have been refined spice dumped into the brew.

So, some 'hero' has already taken 1g orally, and he is dead. Very selfish of him because such things cause negative press and so endanger the sacraments.
 
Maybe, or maybe you're thinking of another scare? I know 5-meo can be dodgey with aya, there have been many reports of this, so personally I'm doubtful that I would've got mixed up. I remember they were debating whether the guy could've practically achieved this 1g using the plants rather than extract, and they decided that he must've added extract and were relieved that he couldn't have died from a strong brew of traditional aya, and I don't think that debate would've made sense if they were talking about 5-meo. Note I'm not claiming that the dosage killed him, rather than a reaction or something, I'm just saying that he had 1g and he is dead.

Can't find the article unfortunately... I tried.
 
I thought there was a ton of tobacco added to the brew, the woman who drank had a heart condition, the shaman was kind of sketchy, and it was actually the tobacco and NOT any vine/spice that killed her?
 
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A fatal intoxication following the ingestion of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine in an ayahuasca preparation - PubMed

A case of a 25-year-old white male who was found dead the morning after consuming herbal extracts containing beta-carbolines and hallucinogenic tryptamines is presented. No anatomic cause of death was found at autopsy. Toxicologic analysis of the heart blood identified N,N-dimethyltryptamine...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this one, oha?

its the only thing that comes up with 'ayahuasca death' in pubmed, and its pretty obvious the 5-meo very high quantity is what is odd about it
 
If you're just talking about physical effects of these extreme dosages then this is indeed unexplored territory.

But when you look at the effects of other simmilar substances then you can get an impression of what kind of things you COULD expect.

-69ron mentioned accidentally having taken an extreme amount of psilocybin. One of the effects he mentioned was an extreme anti-coagulant effect, like when you take too much aspirin. Psilocybin is very simmilar to DMT, so maybe DMT has these effects as well.
-Many psychedelic's have a strong vasoconstricting and also a slight bronchoconstricting effect. They have this effect through action on the same receptors DMT works on. It is even almost by definition impossible that a substance would have psychedelic effects like a classic hallucinogen, without vasoconstriction and slight bronchoconstriction as side-effects because the receptors responsible for the psychedelic effects (like the 5-ht-2) often also have a regulatory function in all kinds of physical mechanisms as well...the brain is part of the body, you know.
Extreme vasoconstriction can lead to gangrene and the loss of limbs due to extreme inhibition of the flow of blood to these organs, and ofcourse extreme bronchoconstriction could lead to choking.
-Then there is ofcourse the chance that too much DMT is neurotoxic. Too much of most neurotransmitters has a neurotoxic effect. Expecting that DMT can never lead to any kind of brain damage even when you take several grams (maybe even combined with MAOI's) would be naive. You must expect DMT to be fundamentally different from other neurotransmitters. XTC is supposed to be able to cause damage to other 5-HT receptors due to overexposure of these receptors to serotonin.
Many nerve gasses cause damage to choline receptors by creating an overexposure to choline. Cocaine causes brain damage by overexposing the brain to norepinephrine and dopamine. I don't see why DMT would be different in this respect.
 
endlessness said:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A fatal intoxication following the ingestion of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine in an ayahuasca preparation - PubMed

A case of a 25-year-old white male who was found dead the morning after consuming herbal extracts containing beta-carbolines and hallucinogenic tryptamines is presented. No anatomic cause of death was found at autopsy. Toxicologic analysis of the heart blood identified N,N-dimethyltryptamine...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this one, oha?

its the only thing that comes up with 'ayahuasca death' in pubmed, and its pretty obvious the 5-meo very high quantity is what is odd about it
Click to expand...
I'd recognise the aya forums thread if I saw it. They were listing the different chemicals involved etc- it was one of the more intelligent threads. I've spent hours looking but I can't find it.
 
Ohayoco, if you remember a specific phrase that was used then you can utilize Google by typing something like this

"exact phrase in quotes" site:forums.ayahuasca.com
 
I think pretty much everything has been said here . My 2 cents is that overdoing it on this stuff is way beyond anything anyone can imagine. I did it by mistake one day and it was the single most terrifying experience of my entire life. I'm still coming to terms with what happened and have changed all my methods , adopting a much more careful procedure and attitude.

Trust me when i say that heroic dosing on this stuff is not enjoyable. Its a personal alternate dimensional horror show. I feel lucky that i have been able to survive with my sanity entact.

YOU don't need to push the dose to have a worthwhile experience. Its a huge mistake that you will regret . Anyone reading this stuff should listen to what everyone is saying..here ........


One thing I can say that may have saved me is breathing . I think everyone that is exploring spice on a semi regular basis should work on breathing all the time.

I believe good breathing during journeying can literally save your life. I was struggling with my breathing during the onset of my hell journey.

I was having trouble breathing and as confused and panicked as I was Some distant part of myself still here in this dimension remembered I needed to breath.
It was the only thing I could do....and i think it helped me survive it...

I remember after this happened to me I thought that there should be a big warning on this site someplace telling people what could happen if they do too much.
 
Alight! I have learned from this thread that taking a gram of dmt is stupid for anyone. Reason, you won't remember it, it will be uncomfortable and horrible and make you probably wish you were dead. And experiments have not, to anyone's knowledge, been done at such doses.

Thanks, for that info, polytrip, that helps much.

The thing is, I was looking for the documented physical effects.... and I figured the effects would be most pronounced at high doses, so that's why I asked about high doses. Yes I did state I wanted to take a high dose (an undisclosed dose), that aside, I am still interested in the knowledge. There are a lot of studies done on the physical effects of alcohol. If one litre of vodka is fatal, I would still want to know what the physical effects of taking 100ml would be.... both long term and short term, chronic and occassional use. Whatever's out there, I want to know.


Felnik said:
One thing I can say that may have saved me is breathing . I think everyone that is exploring spice on a semi regular basis should work on breathing all the time.

I was having trouble breathing and as confused and panicked as I was Some distant part of myself still here in this dimension remembered I needed to breath.
It was the only thing I could do....and i think it helped me survive it...

I remember after this happened to me I thought that there should be a big warning on this site someplace telling people what could happen if they do too much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's another thing I was wondering. Do people actually stop breathing when they take dmt???? Are you sure you stopped breathing? or did you just think you stopped breathing? I've never seen anyone on it, so I don't know. Hell, I thought I stopped breathing even on weed, but the body seems to know it must breathe. Well, people aren't dropping like flies taking this stuff.... so you probably are still breathing, or else there would be a lot more people dying.
 
I'm not sure if I actually stopped breathing but there was a serious struggle going on. The stuff can come on so strong sometimes even in a semi manageable trip that it literally takes your breath away.

I think breathing is so important in journeying anyway. Its a key component in guiding through a strong experience. I am in good shape and have strong lungs.
If i was a different person during my difficult experience it may have been alot worse. It hard to tell if you forget to breath or actually have some kind of constriction . There was so much going on its hard to really understand what exactly happens. It felt like there was some kind of constriction in breathing and I had to kick start my breathing in a fit of panic.

The thing i'm interested in is this idea of neurotoxicity . What is the basis of this, can someone explain this. Are we speaking of an overload to the neurons? Is there any evidence of perminent damage? and if so what kind of damage are we talking about . Have there been actual studies related to DMT. My general understanding is that its pretty benign for the most part. That being said Its hard to believe that one could not sustain some kind of perminent brain alteration from high doses of DMT.

The studies on people using ayahuasca have been positive as far as I know. The studies seems to show that In most cases those people are better off than not using it.
 
fnog9 said:
Well, people aren't dropping like flies taking this stuff.... so you probably are still breathing, or else there would be a lot more people dying.
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Well, people also aren't taking 1-2 grams, so again, you have to remember that you are asking about uncharted waters. With the doses you are asking about, you need to keep in mind that no one (or pretty damn close to no one) has done these amounts. To base the effects of taking 1 or 2 grams on the effects reported by the community at large is foolish and nonsensical as you are talking about taking 10-20 times that amount. It seems like these points are not getting through to you based on the questions you keep asking and inferences you have made throughout this thread.

And Ya, really? This spoiler is even less necessary than the last spoiler. Actually, this is ridiculous dude(referring to your "last 10 posts" ), I know you like being out there, but is everything ok? Why post in a format that is not conducive to smooth flowing threads? You are a unique individual indeed but this seems a bit beyond declaring your individuality...
 
Actually, allowing people the option, if they choose to see my posts, with one click, is neither a "hassle" nor "ridiculous".

So Evening Glory, please reconsider if threatening suspension was good at all, and Snozzleberry please stay on topic. :)
 
Ya said:
Actually, allowing people the option, if they choose to see my posts, with one click, is neither a "hassle" nor "ridiculous".

So Evening Glory, please reconsider if threatening suspension was good at all, and Snozzleberry please stay on topic. :)
Click to expand...
This is not the right place to discuss this. You have been informed that we do not want anyone to use spoiler tags the way you do in this forum, this you will have to accept or face the consequences. There is a broad consensus about this among the moderators as well as the users. If you have anything you want to say, please contact me (or any other moderator) via PM.
 
OK, hopefully people will read to the end of this thread, as I have come to conclusions after months of experience with this stuff, and learning things here and there.

First of all, YES taking a huge dose of dmt can be dangerous, especially, as I asked in my original question, if it is taken orally, and with maoi. In my original post, I did not mention about maoi's. I think I assumed that maoi's would be taken because that's how people normally take dmt orally. I think I was assuming a medium dose of maoi with a huge dose of dmt.

In my experience, even a small dose of dmt with a large dose of rima's, or maoi's can have a major effect on the body. Tremors, irregular breathing, and feeling hot are the usual symptoms. Again, minor, non life threatening forms of these symptoms can be experienced even with small doses. So it is assumed the symptoms will get worse as the dose increases. It is believed these symtoms are associated with serotonin syndrome Serotonin syndrome - Wikipedia , which is defined as a poisoning. So, yes, dmt combined with maoi can be neurotoxic. In my first post, I mentioned "allergic reaction". Serotonin syndrome would probably be the allergic reaction I was talking about. The most dangerous symtoms of a severe case of serotonin syndrome would be hypertension bad enough to cause a heart attack. Vasoconstriction severe enough to inhibit breathing, or choke off blood supply to various parts of the body. Overheating. Plus, the inhibition of the breakdown of dmt may be toxic to the brain itself. That is speculative and not known for certain... but possibly. One would have to figure if the dose is high enough.

Also, the LD-50 of dmt was said to be something around 14g! I think this was the source Erowid Psychoactive Vaults : LD50s & Material Safety Data Sheets However, notice that the method of administration in that case was injection on a mouse. It doesn't say anything about maoi's, which inhibit the breakdown of dmt. It is unknown how much a RIMA might effect the toxcicity of oral dmt. Maybe it cuts the lethal dose by 10 fold or more, we do not know. Luckily, when I took my very large oral dmt dose, I took a very small amount of syrian rue. I don't know what would have happened if I took a large dose of syrian rue with a large dose of dmt. Could have been very bad.

So this post is to any similar individual who wants to take a huge dose of dmt. If you want to take a huge dose, at least smoke it so you know you won't od. And if you have a big amount of oral dmt that you have in mind, cut that amont in half at least, and only take a minimal amount of maoi's for your big dose trip. Never EVER take a big amount of maoi with a big amount of DMT. One or the other, not both.

I don't recommend anything bigger than 100mg dmt (10-15g mimosa) with a normal normal dose of RIMA's. The normal RIMA doses are 100mg harmaline on its own, or 200mg harmine on its own. That's the equivilent of about 3g syrian rue, or 50-75g caapi. Anything greater than these doses seems to put the body in a less than therapeutic state.
 
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