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POLL Aya...down in one or MAOI first?

Migrated topic.
soulman

soulman

Rising Star
This is a question which has been on my mind for a while now so i thought I post a poll to see what the general concensus on the matter is.

I know traditionally shamans will brew the 2 together and so the brew is drunk as one drink, but SWIM has been to a few "western" ceremonies where it seems to be a tendancy to drink the inhibitor first, wait for half an hr or so, and then drink whatever they are using as a source of the DMT.
This is generally the method offered when indulging in pharmahuasca, and scientifically I can understand the reasoning.
However, I have come across a few people, specifically on this site, who claim that the effects are much more pronounced when they take both the MAOI and DMT at the same time.

So the purpose of this post is to get to the bottom of this.
I suspect that the answer will be different for different people, but it will be interesting to see which method works best overall.


Also, as a little side question, does anybody know how long the MAOI would be active for. I.e. if someone was to require a booster dose a few hrs into the ceremony, would it necessary to drink some more inhibitor again or would just the jeurma/chacruna etc be ok on its own.
And what about if the subject has purged, thus emptying his belly of MAOI. Should one replenish this or will substrate molecules be firmly locked into the activesites of the enzymes?
 
SWIM always takes dmt fumarate plus harmalas at the same time in warm water...then drinks a beer or eats something
 
Yo dude,

As your attorney, you already know my opinion on the matter, but based on my experiences, and those of others on this site, it seems to be best to take the MAOI + spice plant at the same time, or as good as...

I learned from this site to discard gel caps with dosing (thanks Jorkest) and WOW did that make a difference....like as in an experience of a completely different order of magnitude and power (was too much actually...I blame the Moclobemide).

Anywho, I don't think the peak MAOI window stays open for long at all, so you need to ride the crest of that high and beautiful wave while you can...

Not sure on the second half of your question though...but I suspect it would be necessary to drink MAOI again. I remember having a ceremony in London, and I had one cup and for me it was very subtle, threshold (it turns out that 32/35 people also doing it were completely blown away by this one cup). So the shaman approached myself and my friend and inquired if we would like another cup. I almost wasn't gonna bother, having to go through all the nausea from scratch, possibly for no gain, but I did, and I was very glad of it...within literally 5 minutes of drinking this second booster cup, I was vibrating, and enveloped by extremely intense, earthy visuals. Weird though, everyone else had deep spiritual, personal trips..I seemed ti just be an observer, unable to interact with a quite alien dimension unfolding before me...But booster dosing with ayahuasca can be VERY effective indeed.

However, I would suspect a good dose of caapi from the outset will be an ally, ad if using mimosa, purging early is a possibility...

Good luck though man... :)
 
Anywho, I don't think the peak MAOI window stays open for long at all, so you need to ride the crest of that high and beautiful wave while you can...
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Actually, it has been my experience that this window is not small at all. In fact, if you wait like 90 minutes after taking the maoi, more dmt will be absorbed. The difference is, that the longer you wait, the less visuals you will see it seems. It is probably because the maoi take over somehow, the stronger it becomes. So, for the best visuals, take the dmt at the same time as the maoi. And possibly also smaller amounts of maoi.

I find that you don't really need large amounts of maoi to inhibit dmt. You probably don't need more than 5-10 gram of caapi, possibly less to activate dmt. But this will make the experience shorter, which might be a bonus for many.

I am going to try 3 gram of caapi in a few days, taken at the same time with dmt and see how it works out. I have tried 4.5 gram, and that worked fine. Probably have to take a bit more dmt than when taking 50 gram of caapi, but it is not a huge difference.
 
Dagger said:
I am going to try 3 gram of caapi in a few days, taken at the same time with dmt and see how it works out. I have tried 4.5 gram, and that worked fine. Probably have to take a bit more dmt than when taking 50 gram of caapi, but it is not a huge difference.
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Wow, thats a small amount dude. Its suprising you can get off on that amount.
Most recpies state 50g caapi and I even saw one the other day that said 100g minimum per person, so that small amnount suprises me.

Anyhow, as suspected, it seems its most peoples perference to take them together. Is this beacause its just something youve always done or is because from experience this gives the best results?
 
In my short experience with Pharma- Dissolving the harmala combo in oj and dmt at the same time produced a quicker effect but less overall intense.

When taken the 100 mg harmala combo first then 40 minutes later 100mg spice then it seemed to take longer to come on but was more intense and lasted longer.
 
Baffald said:
In my short experience with Pharma- Dissolving the harmala combo in oj and dmt at the same time produced a quicker effect but less overall intense.

When taken the 100 mg harmala combo first then 40 minutes later 100mg spice then it seemed to take longer to come on but was more intense and lasted longer.
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You see, this is what im tryna get to the bottom of.
I have a history of not having much success with any oral dmt, so im just tryna cover all varibles and try anything which may help me enter a deeper journey.

The majority of my sessions have had delayed ingestion, but thats just because thats the way the dude who runs them does things. I have the house to myslef this week and shall be taking advantage of this :d
I have brewed the components seperatley, but shall ingest simultaneousley and report back.

In the mean time it would be interesting to hear how the rest of the forum do it!!
 
I always take them seperately but admittedly have never taken them together.

I always like to see how my body reacts to the harmalas before I decide on my dose of DMT and have tried all variables between 90mg harmala's, 50-80mg DMT and 250mg harmalas, 20-85+(ouch?)mg DMT. Most visually intense was 100mg harmaloids 80mg DMT, most alroundedly spiritual involved high doses of both components taken 45 minutes apart, however this has not been repeated with less time between as the first time taught me a hard lesson in respect.

I have only ever used rue extracts which I'm still quite skeptical about as they can give a fair bit for your body to worry about.

I have some DMT fumerate that is sat in waiting until I can get my mits on some THH, when I will probably consume them together.
 
SWIM has had more luck taking them together.

Harmala alkaloids are short acting reversible MAO-A inhibiting compounds, also known as RIMAs. RIMAs don’t permanently bond to MAO-A enzymes. After some time, the MAO-A enzymes are able to remove themselves from the harmala alkaloids and become available again to destroy DMT. How long this takes likely differs from person to person.

SWIM has found that the most potent effects are had when the harmala alkaloids and the DMT are dissolved in the same cup of water (or juice, tea, coffee, etc.) and consumed at once, just like the shamans have been doing for hundreds of years. They do it this way because it’s the most effective method. SWIM normally dissolves the alkaloids in coffee. He finds that coffee is great at covering up bitter flavors.

Also, capsulating them is NOT a good idea. It doesn't work nearly as well that way.

I think the reason it works best when both are dissolved in water and taken at the same time is because this way MAO-A enzymes are overwhelmed with alkaloids. It’s a numbers game. If you take 200 mg of harmine, and it inhibits 100% of the MAO-A enzymes, and then wait 15 minutes, some of those MAO-A enzymes will have been freed from the harmine. As more time passes, more MAO-A enzymes are freed. The MAO-A enzymes are more attracted to harmine than to DMT, so when the two are put together along with the MAO-A enzymes, the MAO-A enzymes are attracted like magnets to the harmine, and the DMT pretty much passes through unhindered. But when you wait 15 minutes before taking the DMT, some of the MAO-A enzymes have freed themselves from the harmine, and so some of the DMT gets destroyed.

Anyway, that’s my understanding of it. The idea of waiting 15 minutes or so before taking the DMT just doesn’t make sense to me. By waiting, you’re giving your MAO-A enzymes time to free themselves from the harmine. What’s the point of that? The longer you wait, the more MAO-A enzymes become available again. Eventually if you wait long enough, all of them are freed again and the DMT will not work at all.

I think people believe that waiting 15 minutes ensures that more MAO-A enzymes are bound to the harmine. That just isn’t so. After 15 minutes, you can already feel the harmine. That means some has already passed through into the brain. More harmine in the brain means less harmine in the stomach to bind to the MAO-A enzymes! That’s my understanding of it. If you feel the harmine, the MAO-A inhibiting effects in the stomach are already diminishing. However, the DMT potentiating effects of harmine are just beginning.

There are two sides to this. Harmine acts as an MAOI in the stomach, but also later acts to potentiate the effects of DMT within the brain. Once the effects of the harmine are felt, it’s MAOI powers in the stomach are diminishing (because it’s passing into the brain), but it’s DMT potentiation effects are increasing. This might be why some people claim to get better effects when the DMT is taken when the harmine is felt, rather than at the same time. But for that, MORE harmine is needed. When taking the harmine and the DMT together, less harmine is needed. That’s what SWIM has found anyway.
 
69ron said:
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I think the reason it works best when both are dissolved in water and taken at the same time is because this way MAO-A enzymes are overwhelmed with alkaloids. It’s a numbers game. If you take 200 mg of harmine, and it inhibits 100% of the MAO-A enzymes, and then wait 15 minutes, some of those MAO-A enzymes will have been freed from the harmine. As more time passes, more MAO-A enzymes are freed. The MAO-A enzymes are more attracted to harmine than to DMT, so when the two are put together along with the MAO-A enzymes, the MAO-A enzymes are attracted like magnets to the harmine, and the DMT pretty much passes through unhindered. But when you wait 15 minutes before taking the DMT, some of the MAO-A enzymes have freed themselves from the harmine, and so some of the DMT gets destroyed.
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Yeah, i wondered how the physiology of drinking together would cause some people to have a better experience, and your explanation would make sense.

It seems that theres a 50:50 on the poll although the numbers are quite low at the minute.
Am interested to see how my experiment later goes
 
I have always did MAOI first then about 30 min later the DMT. BUt I think you guys have talked me into taking them both at the same time. I am planning on a pharma journey in the not so distant future so I will test it out then and see if there is a difference.
 
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