pondering the 4th dimension, this just blows my mind

[DELETED_USER00002]

I cannot post in any other section yet cos i'm a new member but anyway i was thinking about this and had to get this down cos it's making me think too much. this is just me thinking on a tangent.

Here's an interesting thought to consider:

Imagine that since the 4th dimension is time (from beginning to end). Then we could imagine that if someone was moving backwards in time and forwards in time then to him, would they be smoothly travelling in a world of backwards and forwards at any speed he wanted?

For everyone else stuck in forwards world, would they see a blink of the traveler as he goes backwards in time? or a backwards man forever walking backwards in the future? OR would he present himself as "memory"...as if to say, the only way you could know he existed was because he is in your memory as he travels back in time...:shock: OR nothing at all?? since we can't look into the future (like remembering the past...but the opposite:?) we can't see the backwards man..


To add to this craziness, if that person could step sideways (90degrees) of time (backwards and forwards of course) to them somehow they would see every object at every stage of life from beginning to the end and could step into time at any point in time, to us we would see someone just appear or dissapear out of nowhere. I cant begin to imagine how the 4th dimension looks...


In the middle of writing this I just thought about DMT in another crazy perspective.

Imagine DMT is like almost looking into the 4th dimension (or maybe it IS?) a Pseudo 4D experience with extra technicolour vision would present itself to you (the colours and objects could make sense to some people but to others while it's amazing it's just extremely difficult to conceive ...Anyway


making things even more bizarre. what would moving "up and down" in the 4th dimension be like?? it couldn't be like stepping in and out of time again cos that's still the direction I mentioned previously, being that moving "up or down" is a right angle to "in and out".

I could understand that a 4th dimensional being can see every single outside surface of a 3d object all at the same time, through it at all times AND every point of existence, at the same time, but it's just impossible to understand, my head hurts just thinking about it!

..Discuss...

(just so we're aware, this was just one of those bedtime thoughts that got out of control! lol, I hope I got my point across and i hope everyone can see my view)

 

[embracethevoid]

I could understand that a 4th dimensional being can see every single outside surface of a 3d object all at the same time, through it at all times AND every point of existence, at the same time, but it's just impossible to understand, my head hurts just thinking about it!

..Discuss...

(just so we're aware, this was just one of those bedtime thoughts that got out of control! lol, I hope I got my point across and i hope everyone can see my view)

Very interesting thoughts! Well, you can't go "up and down" in time, only forward and backward. Every dimension has a (+) and a (-) so it's either an increase or decrease in the position along it. If you added more dimensions of time aka imaginary time, then you can go forward, backward, across, up, down, etc. I've written a fair amount about it in this thread: The Origin of Your Will is Beyond Your Body; the exposition of imaginary time is a few pages in.



As for what I quoted of your post, basically with the time dimension we can "freeze" a 3D object, rotate it as we please (the frame of reference), break it into lots of little pieces and look at each piece, rotating them as we please - we have all the time in the world after all!

That is to say that time = a mapping of 3 dimensions to 1 dimension, 3 coordinates => 1. So this is how a 4D being can peer into every aspect of a 3D existence.


Then we may define imaginary time coordinates, so now we map a particular configuration of 3D (e.g. rotate object 20 degrees) to a particular time (let's say 5s), and another point where at time 5s the object is rotated 25 degrees. Then point 1 in our new imaginary time dimension contains one timeline while point 2 in this dimension contains another timeline where the object, at the same time as before, is in a different configuration.

In the same way a 4D being can see all of a 3D entity, a 5D being does not have to go forwards and back in time. They can rotate the object along the time dimension and see all possible timelines it could have experienced. So here we have a mapping; 3D=>1D=>nD where n is the number of dimensions of imaginary time you please. According to Michio Kaku, the universe is 11 dimensional music resonating for eternity, put that in your pipe and smoke it. Oh wait, you probably have :twisted:


Look up the concept of Relativity of Simultaneity and also, the Light Cone.


Along imaginary time, we explore something called possibility space. Look it up

 

[embracethevoid]

Question: Are there only three dimensions in other universes or could there be more? (Submitted by Andre Lapiere)

Michio Kaku: Andre, we believe, though we cannot yet prove, that our multiverse of universes is 11-dimensional. So think of this 11-dimensional arena and in this arena there are bubbles, bubbles that float and the skin of the bubble represents an entire universe, so we’re like flies trapped on fly paper. We’re on the skin of a bubble. It’s a three dimensional bubble. The three dimensional bubble is expanding and that is called the Big Bang theory and sometimes these bubbles can bump into each other, sometimes they can split apart and that we think is the Big Bang. So we even have a theory of the Big Bang itself.



Now you ask a question what about the dimensions of each bubble. Well in string theory—which is what I do for a living; that's my day job—In string theory we can have bubbles of different dimensions. The highest dimension is 11. You cannot go beyond 11 because universes become unstable beyond 11. If I write down the theory of a 13-, 15-dimensional universe it’s unstable and it collapses down to an 11-dimensional universe. But within 11 dimensions you can have bubbles that are 3 dimensional, 4-dimensional, 5-dimensional. These are membranes, so for short we call them brains. So these brains can exist in different dimensions and let’s say P represents the dimension of each bubble, so we call them p-brains. So a p-brain is a universe in different dimensions floating in a much larger arena, and this larger arena is the hyperspace that I talked about originally.



Also remember that each bubble vibrates, and each bubble vibrating creates music. The music of these membranes is the subatomic particles. Each subatomic particle represents a note on a vibrating string or vibrating membranes. So, believe it or not, we now have a candidate for the "Mind of God" that Albert Einstein wrote about for the last 30 years of his life. The "Mind of God" in this picture would be cosmic music resonating throughout 11-dimensional hyperspace.

Recorded September 29, 2010
Interviewed by Paul Hoffman

 

[minds eye open]

This up down dimension could bring us back to real world geometry, similar to 2D trigonometry, an X /Y axis.Perhaps the fourth dimension applies 3D trigonometry or some similar principle.Given the strong DMT geometric overtone at times, this may be a third axis that is the true axis of travel, both through time and space. More questions than answers. More food for thought....

 

[cubeananda]

Beautiful Michio Kaku reference

I like the idea that the 4ourth dimension can mean time.

With this in mind it becomes feasible to understand that if there were an astral body it would be an object which one's consciousness could identify with on a plane outside of time.

Tough to imagine existing outside of time.

It seems as if Now is now.

Within time, most human consciousness identifies with a mind which exists in a 2-dimension way, and identifies with the sense-impressions, which exist in a 3 dimensional way, one's consciousness finds itself thoroughly absorbed within the envelope of time, in a constant and incredibly fast oscillation between the 2d and 3d world.

If one finds a way to create space between one's consciousness (essentially an 11th dimensional object from one angle) one may find that object which may step outside of time.

The astral body participates in the cross-section between infinity-consciousness and now-consciousness, allowing one to follow the state of Now in the world of forms, but remain connected to the 11d infinity-energy-blanket.

In my opinion, time is a 2d phenomenon, an illusory projection created by Mind.

The body itself is a four-dimensional object, however consciousness itself is not the body, and thus is generally is in a state of flux between the 2nd and 3rd dimensions.

To bring consciousness to the fourth dimension simply means stepping outside of mind, and not identifying with the three dimensional sense-impressions.

The heart Chakra creates an electro-magnetic field, if one activates it. A magnetic field is a 6 dimensional object!

Source:
"In electromagnetism, the electromagnetic field is generally thought of as being made of two things, the electric field and magnetic field. They are both three-dimensional vector fields, related to each other by Maxwell's equations. A second approach is to combine them in a single object, the six-dimensional electromagnetic tensor, a tensor or bivector valued representation of the electromagnetic field. Using this Maxwell's equations can be condensed from four equations into a particularly compact single equation:"

I can't prove that activating the heart chakra, creates a magnetic field, I suspect it just infuses the already electro-magnetic field with conscious awareness.

Constantly magnetized by the Green Chakra is the Yellow Chakra, the solar plexus is a 5 dimensional object!

"The Kaluza–Klein theory used the fifth dimension to unify gravity with the electromagnetic force"

(both sources from wikipedia)

Breath follows eternal now, and so breath is a 4 dimensional phenomenon which consciousness has the capability to be conscious of. One can then folow these life-forces travel through the body while remaining conscious of the breath. This is pulling consciousness out of the swamp of the 2nd and 3rd dimensions, up the stalk and eventually to the 6 dimensional lotus-flower.

In this analogy, the fifth dimension is the Bud of the flower, the leaves are 4 dimensional, as well as the whole stalk and the mud itself.

However the mind which remains linear, and the connection between the brain and the sense organs creates a 2 dimensional and 3 dimensional picture for the pyramid of 4 dimensional, 6 dimensional and 11 dimensional consciousness to use for its own growth as a flower.




Now.
Of course I cannot bring any reliable evidence, and none of these theories are intended to be taken as fact, simply intellectual ways to understand the multi-dimensionality of the human being.


I personally believe that the 3rd eye is the portal to containing for containing Brahma (11 dimensional object)

In string theory, the last 6 dimensions, 6-11 are of the invisible world.

1-5 can be measured, this is within physics.

However within metaphorical physics, ne can't actually percieve past the third dimension, unless there is an Astral body, or a 4 dimensional object which uses its connection to the 6th dimension to percieve itself and other objects of that dimension.


I would personally suspect that the fourth plane would be like being aware of the essence of the world around.

The gross world is a product of human perception, and exists at the cellular level. All types of cellular organisms supporting eachother.

The subtle world, the reality of our existence is 4 dimensional, the reality is Molecular.

Things which emit odors for instance are molecularly volatile.

If one had a body on the 4th plane (Astral plane, according to many of the spiritual authorities which i have read) one could be aware of the true molecular nature of things.

One could possibly SEE the radiations of stinky objects, and if one were able to move through the 4th plane from the 6th plane, one could likely understand the effect that the molecules of an apple might have on the molecules of a human being.

One would associate molecular apple with molecular growth of human beings, or something like that.

It is even possible to achieve this understanding while in the Human Cellular form,

one simply has to pull his consciousness out of the swamp and be aware of the Lotus which one truly is.

Then there is still the further intellectualism about Brahma, the connection between all humans. This. The true reality, "11d".

 

[No Knowing]

"Yours is a race of pawns, you move forward only, unless we move you back to begin again. But not all the pieces on the board are pawns."
-Tzadkiel, the God in the SciFi epic The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe

 

[Hyperdimensional Cuttlefish]

I think we are limited to our understood movement to standard space/time aka 4 dimensions; Just like a 2D waveform diagram cannot become 3D without losing it's "2D-ness". It becomes something else entirely.

I think we are a linear 4D thing, and MUST function in those linear bounds, it's the human condition. Like you can't teach your dog algebra, we can't move through it yet (if ever).

Although, they say those who have achieved samadhi aren't really THERE any more... Just empty/full eyed doorways to the universal mind.

 

[cubeananda]

An active third eye is not of the linear human. It is a 6 dimensional object, a condensation of the 11th dimension in a single point.

 

[phanerothyme]

I've also recently been pondering fourth dimensions, especially after learning that a 4-D object's shadow is three-dimensional. Entertaining hyperspace ideas, we may be shadows or reflections of objects or entities of a higher dimension, and the dimension below ours should not be disregarded as stagnant or lifeless. And by extension, the eleventh (or twelfth?) dimensional world is the raw data whose image is only reflected or shadowed.

 

[embracethevoid]

There must be a reason that the 11D world is where it appears to end. Something like the idea that when you go above 11 dimensions, the whole thing loops on itself making it unnecessary, like an Ouroboros (self-eating snake).


Just like the way that the speed of light is defined to be 299792458m/s but the velocity can be rephrased in terms of its rapidity which is elegantly infinite, there must be some kind of similar dissolution of "dimensionality" into some overarching (non)phenomenon. So similarly, the idea of 11D appears arbitrary like the idea of 299792458m/s but there would be some kind of perspective where 11D is infinite or self-containing all dimensions.


Each dimension can be seen as a mapping (projection) of lower => higher. If you look from higher dimension down to lower, then the lower dimensions are a shadow of the highers. But if we look the other way, then basically a 1D object is projected along a new axis, the 2nd dimension. Along this new axis we vary the 1D form. Then 3D is a projection of the 2D, that is to say going across the 3rd dimension is like applying a "time" to the 2D object, and so on and on till 11D or infinity or whatever.