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Poorly understood family of AYAHUASCA vines

Migrated topic.
I think we need to reboot this investigation. We were on a good track doing good work! Its mindboggling that so little is known about such an important plant, or plants in general for that matter!

For the time being, i think we need to focus on bioassaying and finding a working dose for alecia anisopetala, as well as b. muricata.

Also i almost think the best way to refer to any vine would just be where the vine was obtained, and what the vine was called when it was obtained.

For exapmle if we talk about Kiwis muricata, we all know which plant we are talking about.

We could start several rounds of bioassays i still havent seen anmy confirmed dosage info. I can attest that both alecia and muricata are safe and enjoyable at the 20 gram level so that is a good place to start, and up it from there and add admixutre.

Also kiwi now has new vines skyblue and boa, has anyone used those?
 
one main problem is that there is a number of vendors selling alicia mislabled as "black Banisteriopsis Caapi"..and I think in some instances it is likely intentional. There is one main source of this bulk vine I know of, and many of you do also and it is labled there as what it is. I think other vendors are getting it and labling it as black B.caapi so they can sell more of it..but I am not saying ALL vendors are doing this. It could just be innocent.

So there is likely all these people out there drinking this stuff assuming it's Banisteriopsis caapi black variety.

I have also seen muricata being sold as "red banisteriopsis caapi"..vine sections that look identical to the muricata I have..and these sites are the ones also selling the "black b.caapi" that is identical to every picture of alicia I have seen and to the vine I have. It is not something you can mistake for caapi.

It is a safetly issue also becasue while muricata has the same alk profile as caapi, alicia does not. Who knows whats in there or how safe it is.
 
I have seen black cappi that looks exactly like alecia anisopetala, and red that looks exactly like b. muricata. But most red vine i have seen is not b muricata, it looks just like b. cappi yellow cross section, except it is more "red" in color, also the brew is more red (sometimes). But its still b. cappi.

Also if you suspect a vendor of doing this, simply do not use that vendor, i think with so many people double checking kiwis ids and keeping him in check, he is really by far our most reliable source for this type of investigation. All other vendors selling random red and black this, if they dont have more info about their own product dont support them.

I dont think it makes a mess of everything at all though, only for those who use those vendors who are probably newbs and dont care anyways. Cause for me at this point it is very easy to tell alecia anisopetala, b. muricata, and b. cappi apart, no problem its easy. Then there are just other colors of b. cappi, its not so hard to understand. Jusst like there is different strains of trichocereus cacti. THere is p. torch, tp, and tb, and they are all closely related but with clearly distinct effects as well.

Clearly alecia vine contains MAOA or B inhibitors, i dont know how this is in question any more. Bioassays at this point point to the fact that it is more potent source than b. cappi. Also i used it several times at 20 grams and had highly thereputic and amazing experiences.

What are you saying jamie, we should give up or somethin, to me its not that confusing sometimes we make it harder than it has to be
 
edit..

Yes I was right that these vendors are mislabling alicia vine on purpse and selling it as B.caapi. They have admitted that they are doing this in order to sell more of the vine, and do not seem to have any plans to stop..one vendor has now changed the 2 mislabled vines to the correct ID..alicia anisopetala and banisteriopsis muricata..so at least one stepped up and did the right thing.

There are 2 threads about this in the health and safetry section.
 
How much would it cost to sequence the dna of these plants?
If expensive, how bout a "kickstarter"?
I bet there's lots of curious members here who are willing to contribute.
 
One thing that would be helpful in that regard is if the vendor(s) would offer live plants as well as dried material for each species or variety. Then we could at least positively ID everything with a little legwork. Not all the dried material has a corresponding live plant in their offerings which really bugs me. I'm hoping k1w1 is propagating things like 'skyblue' in order to add them to the catalog.

Also, live material would pretty much be a prereqisite for DNA sequencing since I think it is much more difficult to sequence dead material. Not sure how useful DNA sequencing would be in any case...
 
k1w1 does offer live plant versions of most of his stuff

Also, I was unaware this selling of alecia as black was so widespread, that's terrible actually.

What if someone uses 100 grams of this black off the bat, 100 grams could be considered a normal amount, but might be an overdose amount of alecia, not enough is known.



have we tested alecia vine and leaf for actives? If we accomplish only this, that is something highly worth accomplishing, figuring out the actives in alecia, and also test the leaf for the light, that could go a long way in harm reduction if we can find a safe dose for this stuff, if it is indeed safe and supposed to be used like ayahuasxa

We should ask alfonzo what the traditional prepararion of this is, also straight up ask him if the leaves contain light

I will email him and ask about alecia more...
 
Regarding Alicia anisopetala...

The vine was tested a while ago by endlessness via gc-ms (and the results posted). The spectra does not match anything in the NIST database.

The leaves have been TLC'd and appear to contain DMT. We are awaiting lc-ms results.
 
I did see those reults, I just figured perhaps another test was done or should be done.

So that just means the compunds are unidentified, can it be told from these results if the alks in question are at least similiar to harmalas? In the vine I mean? Because it must contain harmalas!

Anyways cheers snozz thanks.

Oh and most importantly, is there any info on the dosage for alecia leaf if it does contain the light? Like chacruna potency or chaliponga potency??

I have a whole lot of the leaf I got thinking it was chaliponga years ago, like yo know if it has any use for me!
 
BecometheOther said:
So that just means the compunds are unidentified, can it be told from these results if the alks in question are at least similiar to harmalas? In the vine I mean? Because it must contain harmalas!
Click to expand...
The analysis did not show the presence of any harmala alkaloids.

endlessness said:
...as I said before in what snozz quoted, all the above peaks are NOT any of the harmalas I know of nor that are in the NIST database, this can be clearly seen. Maybe some other more obscure beta carboline, but considering there was no UV shine, I wonder if maybe that isnt a good indication there was no b-carboline?
Click to expand...

BecometheOther said:
Oh and most importantly, is there any info on the dosage for alecia leaf if it does contain the light? Like chacruna potency or chaliponga potency??
Click to expand...
At the present time, the only analysis that I am aware of anywhere is a qualitative TLC. It is possible that the lc-ms will provide quantitative data, but I am not certain of that at this point. A vendor would probably be the best bet for answering that question at the present moment. Alternatively, you could try a small extraction and see what kind of yield you get 😉

I bet it has use...there are a number of anecdotal reports of people brewing active decoctions with leaf admixture...just can't comment on dosage, personally.
 
Hello. I'm very glad seeing this Topic. I'm trying to find reliable info of the gender Banisteriopsis and I'm in search of Banisteriopsis muricata.

Making research in my country I've encountered Tetrapterys spp. I'm growing one in my garden. I also know where are others that in september or october start to flower and produce seeds.

I don't want to say that it's Tetrapterys methystica because I don't have a Lab to examine the Chemistry, but I'm almost sertain that it's of the Tetrapterys gender.

I would surely send some fresh seeds in October or November if you can help me getting B. muricata seeds.

In the past, I understand that Banisteriopsis muricata was named Banisteria argentea, but I don't know why the Neo-taxonomists tend to mess up the names and stuff... But any ways, that's what I'm looking for: Banisteria argentea.

Thank you for the help! I wish that I could help in this Topic.

Cheers.
 
Kiwibo..... you say? I don't know if it's really B. muricata... That's why I want to trade them instead of purchasing, because maybe some one in the Forum could really know and have B. muricata. I do have B. caapi but I want the real B. muricata. They say you can only find it in the Putumayo, Amazonas.

Also, I saw that they sell also T. methystica. Do you think it is really T.m?
 
I have some trouble with my muricata vine. It came from kiwi, so I post it here.

Yesterday I drank a brew of it, but the effects were very mild. I heard red vine is said to be much more intense than yellow.

Anyway this is how I dosed: I made a brew of 300 ml out of 1 kg muricata vine (3 pulls). Also I have chaliponga, but dosing that I am certain since I also used this with yellow vine and it worked pretty well :p .

So I drank 3 cups: * first with 15 ml of muricata. That didn't do much. * second another cup with 20 ml of muricata. Now I was certain the dose was either too low, or the vine was weak. * third I took a cup with 40 ml of muricata and this one I felt, but still a little.

Then I decided to stop. But the thing is that caapi vine I used to drink proved much more potent that this muricata. Is that something common? I am a bit confused since I was really looking forward for a deep session last night...
 
i can drink 5g of rue and not feel anything.
but i only need 3g of rue to inhibit my MAO.

many people do not feel psychoactive effects from MAOI alone (including terence mckenna), so its not unusual
 
Joseph_Alekhine said:
They say you can only find [B. muricata] in the Putumayo, Amazonas.
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Out of curiosity, who is "they"? Have you looked at any of the monographs published for information on B. muricata?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just trying to understand the reasoning behind your assertion. :)
 
Parshvik Chintan said:
i can drink 5g of rue and not feel anything.
but i only need 3g of rue to inhibit my MAO.

many people do not feel psychoactive effects from MAOI alone (including terence mckenna), so its not unusual
Click to expand...

Well... If I ingest 5 gram of rue and don't feel anything :shock: I usually lie dreaming awake on my bed with that amount of rue.

But I took muricata & chaliponga by the way. There are some after effects and I'm sure that the vine was muricata or at least from the banisteriopsis family. Just strange that red vine turned out to be so weak.

Ah well, I'm just gonna try again soon.
 
Over at forums.ayahuasca.com muricata is much more well understood now, and has made its way into being a mainstay there.... Check out there dosage and preparation info as well as people who dieta with it.

It is my understanding that it in fact is on average less potent than yellow ayahuasca and is large amounts are boiled to a paste like consistancy with dosage beign around 200 grams...

hope that helps!

I once used only 20 grams of it, and had what i thought to be full effects but the experiment wasnt very scientific because i also used 2 other ayahuasca vines in conjunction with it...
 
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