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Possible new extraction method of caapi/rue

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prottel

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If you reduce a 50g caapi brew down to perhaps 40 ml, then while it is still hot, pour ice cold water over it. If I then quickly filters it, what comes through the filter tastes very sweet. No taste of bitterness at all. While what is on the other side of the filter tastes bitter!

The unfiltered brew have alot of whitish particles in it, making the brew look cloudy, where previousely it was totally clear. I could only assume that these are the actives, temporarily out of suspension. I am not sure if it is all the actives, but what comes out after filtering, is still yellow, but very sweet in taste, very drinkable.

Now, the problem is that in about 10-20 minutes time, they gradually fall back into solution again.

So, my questions are:
1. What causes the actives to come out of solution?
2. How can you increase the time they stay suspended? If it can be increased, it would be easier to filter it all, then pull out the actives from the filter.
3. Can this be made into a new extraction method?
 
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Could you please give us more details lad?:?: What did swim use to prepare brew(expect water (what water ? ) and caapi
)??? how much ice cold water(what water?) was poured over??? What strain of caapi did swim use?


In this island is `hard` water , compare to the distilled or deionized it is a bit different water .... you know.
 
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SWIM used water directly from the faucet to brew the caapi. The caapi was mayas shredded white(4).
Amount of cold water used was 1 liter, the amount of hot caapi brew before adding was about 50 ml to 100 ml. Don't quite remember, this was like 1 year ago! Water added to the brew was the same water, directly from the faucet. Ph around 5.8 SWIM thinks. Acid used while brewing was acetic, or possibly phosphoric acid.

SWIM remembers trying this method multiple times with same result. SWIM also tried drinking a brew that had come through the filter, that tasted sweet. Some of the bitter stuff also came through, since it took some time. Brew was very weak.

Btw, this method does not work if the water is just room temperature. Needs to be hot.
 
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SWIM tried today to test out this method on rue, which he has never done before. He quickly extracted 5 gram of rue with water from the faucet. He reduced it to about 50 ml, and quickly added 450 ml cold water. He did not see any whitish particles with rue, but he noticed a strange thing. The brew turned more greenish in colour, where before it was just yellow. Especially when pouring the two brews together, it seemed like an almost pure green colour, which quickly turned halfway back to yellow.

So, SWIM is not sure what to do with this mixture. What reaction could have happened? The greenish brew, after filtration still is bitter to some degree. Seemed to work better with caapi.

Note: I am not 100% sure that it has changed colour. But I cannot for the life of me remember it having a greenish tint. Would have to try it again to see.
 
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well, logic says that lower temperature water will hold less alkaloids (like for example manske´s harmalas salt precipitation), so maybe it is some alkaloids that you see.. But I doubt that simply putting cold water will be an efficient way of retrieving those alkaloids.. and also could very well be that other things apart from alkaloids also appear when temperature goes down like this..

I guess a salt precipitation manske style repeated a cpl of times and a final ammonia precipitation step seems the most reliable way to extract the harmalas.. but also loads of people talking about how annoying it is to filter this, as it always seems to clog.. SWIM will try this a few weeks from now and will report back with results
 
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Dagger said:
SWIM used water directly from the faucet to brew the caapi. The caapi was mayas shredded white(4).
Amount of cold water used was 1 liter, the amount of hot caapi brew before adding was about 50 ml to 100 ml. Don't quite remember, this was like 1 year ago! Water added to the brew was the same water, directly from the faucet. Ph around 5.8 SWIM thinks. Acid used while brewing was acetic, or possibly phosphoric acid.

Btw, this method does not work if the water is just room temperature. Needs to be hot.
Click to expand...

ILPT hasn`t got idea how hard is water in your area but there is a possibility that swimmer neutralised reduced acidic brew with huge amount of facet water. The temerature issue is a bit mystery though :roll:
 
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Dagger said:
SWIM tried today to test out this method on rue, which he has never done before. He quickly extracted 5 gram of rue with water from the faucet. He reduced it to about 50 ml, and quickly added 450 ml cold water. He did not see any whitish particles with rue, but he noticed a strange thing. The brew turned more greenish in colour, where before it was just yellow. Especially when pouring the two brews together, it seemed like an almost pure green colour, which quickly turned halfway back to yellow.

So, SWIM is not sure what to do with this mixture. What reaction could have happened? The greenish brew, after filtration still is bitter to some degree. Seemed to work better with caapi.

Note: I am not 100% sure that it has changed colour. But I cannot for the life of me remember it having a greenish tint. Would have to try it again to see.
Click to expand...


ILPT fucked up salt precip. from harmala so he just decided basify slightly acetic brew with ammonia and he also spot the colour turn in some point greenish after he started adding ammonia.
 
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To be clear:, there was a portion of rock salt dissolved in solution and when he finished adding ammonia it turned brownish and filtered crude residue was also brown. He has only 5 grams of rue and extracted 3 times with acetic water. He looking forward to play more with rue and maybe caapi as soon as wages appeared on his account, He like very much mild psychedelic effects of harmala alkaloids but he has bad stomach therefore he want find nice tek to make extract it himself. He would like to avoid bloody ammonia, it stinks:cry:

Dagger said:
Interesting. The water SWIM added had a pH around 5.8.
Click to expand...


Ahaaaa, ILPT thought you used acidic water only for extraction. He`s now confused. Are swim saying that tap water in his country has pH 5.8.? Good for give you heartburn:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :l

Now seriously. Is this what swim did???

1,Made a brew with 50g white caapi and tap water at ph 5.8 (The final pH of brew before adding cold water still 5.8, yes? )
2,He reduced it down to say ~ 50 ml (on the stove in pot, right? - possible particular oxidation ) does he checked the
ph after reducing,if he used acetic acid and then evaporate in open pot ph could changed
3,He quickly poured 1 liter portion of ice cold water (? C) to the hot (90 C)reduced brew.:?: :?: :?:

Your story is a bit mysterious:shock:
 
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kemist said:
Now seriously. Is this what swim did???

1,Made a brew with 50g white caapi and tap water at ph 5.8 (The final pH of brew before adding cold water still 5.8, yes? )
2,He reduced it down to say ~ 50 ml (on the stove in pot, right? - possible particular oxidation ) does he checked the
ph after reducing,if he used acetic acid and then evaporate in open pot ph could changed
3,He quickly poured 1 liter portion of ice cold water (? C) to the hot (90 C)reduced brew.:?: :?: :?:

Your story is a bit mysterious:shock:
Click to expand...
In the brewing process SWIM used phosphoric and/or vinegar to reduce pH to around 3 or so. As said I don't quite remember the specifics as it has been about a year since it happened. The pH of the reduced brew SWIM does not know. But usually the pH has been between 4 and 6 when measured.

I guess it is a bit mysterious, that is why he asks on this forum. Thought it could possibly be used to clean out the impurities.

The brew when reduced was clear, no particulate matter. Then after adding cold water, it turned foggy, with alot of whitish particles. The taste before filtering it, was slightly bitter, after filtering it, it tasted very sweet.

Perhaps SWIM will test again with caapi, just to be sure of what happened.
 
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Ahaaaa, ILPT thought you used acidic water only for extraction. He`s now confused. Are SWIM saying that tap water in his country has pH 5.8.? Good for give you heartburn
Click to expand...
SWIM tested the pH of the faucet water again. This time it seems to have a pH of around 7. Perhaps before he has not held the pH meter long enough under the water...Sorry for the wrong info :lol:

So how many paricles he filtered out (how much in weight) out of the caapi brew?
Click to expand...
Got no clue how much weight it was, but from the amount seen it could not be much, in the milligram range

kemist said:
ILPT said : I have a 30 grams of yellow caapi but i would like to useit for ayahuasca and rather order 100 gms of yellow from better vendor.
Click to expand...
Get mayas shredded white, and brew with cold water extraction tech. Should give you active doses around 10 gram if done properly. Heck, mine is even active at 5-7 gram :)
 
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He probably will, cos black and white are stronger then yellow. You know is also up to vendor. They could also be an impurities what making this strange behaviour. there is less alkaloids and more impurities in caapis then rue. ILPT would suggest play with the rue first then try to apply it on caapi. In rue is high alkaloid content and it`s cheaper. ILPT found some extravagant solvents and he try to perform more type of extractions on dry rue. He also swop food grade citric acid for vinegar in a/b extractions. ALL he need is more cash and time!!!!
 
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He played also with 15grms chali (some strains could contain nice ammounts of harmala alks)and have residue what he washed with clean hot petroleum spirit(b.p.40-60 C ). the undissolved residue was potent and gave him nice psychedelic effect. The extraction was very weird. he used quite clean ethanolic vinegar (10 % acet. acid 90 % water) not a malt one, then a Coleman`s fuel for deffating ammonia for basif. and DCM for extracting. There was loads of emulsions in deffating process and then suspension precipitate after basifing wit NH4OH, justpain in the butt.:(
 
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