Possible new technique that profoundly changes the DMT exerience.

[n0thing]

Kids have been doing it very badly and unsafely in the form of "The Choking Game". Let me make it clear at this point that THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING AS HYPERVENTILATING! It is also NOT THE SAME THING as holotropic breathwork! Such methods I have found rarely bring about such profound shifts of consciousness in such a short period of time.

By holding your breath after briefly hyperventilating you can change blood flow in the brain and temporarily disable certain areas to achieve a state of euphoria.

I have looked in to the health safety of this technique with the aid of briefly asking two doctors, one neurologist and asking a medical forum and have got the all clear within certain respectable ranges and considerations.

Below is the method that has been confirmed safe to me by medical professionals from my research.


1. Breath deeply and fast for 5-10 breaths or longer until start to feel light headed.

2. Hold your last breath in for 4-5 seconds. Keep your eyes closed the entire time.

3. You will start to feel relaxed and notice the profound change in awareness that last about 10 seconds (30-40 on dmt)

I want to make it clear that this method does not suffocate the cells of oxygen as holding the breath for that amount of time is proven not too, this is why swimmer do it all the time doing long distance underwater swims.

Obviously, if you do this long enough you will pass out and risk harm to yourself as the doctors informed me of, even though this carries the same risks that are associated with any form of choke out (mma) which most seem to recover from unharmed. The distinction to make here is that oxygen derivation is detrimental to the health of brain cells so this is not to be confused with the choking game which teens have been doing for decades to feel a euphoric rush. That is extremely dangerous and I do not advocate it.

Basicly, by allowing the blood to be more alkaline via respiratory alkalosis it constricts the blood vessels and allowes the blood to pool within the brain and suppresses activity in certain areas, therby altering awareness of self and the environment.


Note:

Do not stand up at any time before or after. Make sure you are in a safe environment. If you can be still and do not touch anything with your hands.

If you hold your breath longer than 4-5 seconds, the effects will be diminished and this is where the medical professionals agree that less time you hold the safer it is.

If you want to feel stronger effects you can repeat step one for 20 breaths but unless you are accustomed you may risk passing out.


The difference between doing this straight and whilest on DMT is extrordinary, I felt my body in a way I have never felt it before.

I also want to add that I in no way promote this as a risk free activity, just like no one promotes psychedelics in that way either. For me it has been a tool to explore my mind and afaik has not caused me any problems after 5 years of weekly activity.

If anyone would like to chime in on the neurological functions of what is occuring here I would appreciate it. If I had to take a guess I would say it feels like the frontal lobe activity diminish and areas of activity in the mid brain are altered, places like the thalamus that routes sensory signals to intergration areas. Also feels like the DMN (anterior cingulate cortex) is being deactivated because I can tell when DMT does this to me very quickly and feels exactly the same with this technique.

 

[daspaismusflo]

WOW! It totally works! That was amazing, thank you for sharing... I can't wait to try it with a little spice.

 

[Emptiness]

I have never felt anything like that! :roll:

It truly was "deep", felt like I could sense an alternative style of meaning to experience that isn't available to my normal state of mind. It didn't last long, which is frustrating because it felt so serene... like I had been meditating for ages. I found it was best around 10-15 slow breaths, sitting down was stronger than laying down. Laying down while deep breathing and then sitting up as I held the breath made me feel like I was going to pass out though, not the right combo (too strong). Best to sit still comfortably I think.

This is going to be interesting once I try it while high, alhough it could blow things too hard way out of proportion like mixing with n20 or something... I will just keep dosage low.

Thanks :thumb_up:

P.S.

Found this from the link you provided explaining what is happening scientifically.

1. Decrease in partial pressure of alveolar CO2.
2. Decrease in partial pressure of arterial CO2.
3. Increase in blood pH, (respiratory alkalosis).
4. Vasoconstriction of blood vessels supplying brain.
5. Pooling of the blood present in the brain at the time.
6. Brain rapidly uses up oxygen (O2) available in the pooled blood.
7. o2 concentration in the brain drops.

Obviously those last two steps wouldn't apply because you are not holding your breath as long as the people playing "the choking game" to pass out while standing up. Standing would definately be a no no here.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Basicly, by allowing the blood to be more alkaline...

I stopped reading as soon as I saw this. Blood pH is incredibly stable and claims about methods of "alkalizing" your blood tend to be total nonsense.

From WebMD

First, a little chemistry: A pH level measures how acid or alkaline something is. A pH of 0 is totally acidic, while a pH of 14 is completely alkaline. A pH of 7 is neutral. Those levels vary throughout your body. Your blood is slightly alkaline, with a pH between 7.35 and 7.45. Your stomach is very acidic, with a pH of 3.5 or below, so it can break down food. And your urine changes, depending on what you eat -- that's how your body keeps the level in your blood steady.

The alkaline diet claims to help your body maintain its blood pH level. In fact, nothing you eat is going to substantially change the pH of your blood. Your body works to keep that level constant.

 

[Chan]

This sounds like a milder version of the 'Wim Hof' method, and I can certainly vouch for the amazing sensations that gives rise to!

IIRC, during his interview with Joe Rogan (well worth a listen) he recounted how he was hooked up to all kinds of sensors in a Dutch university medical faculty, doing his breath-work. Anyway, apparently it did cause a measurable rise in plasma pH. Not very much, 0.1 or 0.2 maybe, but a consistent, repeatable rise, which he went on to claim delivered significant health benefits.

Otherwise, I agree that blood cannot be made to undergo sizeable swings in pH, at least, not while you're still using it...:d

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Interesting. Thanks for providing some references to the phenomenon being discussed

Respiratory alkalosis

 

[corpus callosum]

Hyperventilation (and the respiratory alkalosis that can result) is used therapeutically to alter cerebral blood flow in neurosurgical patients who may have cerebral edema; it would make an interesting study trying to work out the functional effects (in terms of brain regions and connectivity) of respiratory alkalosis on the non-swollen brain.

 

[T.Harper]

carbogen

eh?

 

[KillaNoodles]

You're basically describing auto-hyperventilation.
No thanks. Regular meditation will do fine.

 

[Chan]

Interesting. Thanks for providing some references to the phenomenon being discussed

Respiratory alkalosis

You're most welcome, Snozz, and thank you for the succinct link. Now I know Joe Rogan's not exactly on the same level as PubMed, but hey, it's Friday afternoon, and stuff appears to be happening...!

 

[T.Harper]

cmon now

 

[NotTwo]

Hmmm, I know I was very impressed with Stan Grof when I first came across him but then the more I read and watched, the more doubts began to appear. Don't know if anyone else feels the same :?

 

[daspaismusflo]

I stopped reading as soon as I saw this. Blood pH is incredibly stable and claims about methods of "alkalizing" your blood tend to be total nonsense.

You just posted two post contradicting each other?

First you said alkalosis isn't possible then you go on to post a wiki link that states it is? Are you going to edit your post?

afaik the op never said anything about 'sizable' swings in ph, just that ph does increase from hyperventilating. that is scientific fact, you seem to not think it is though?

 

[daspaismusflo]

You're basically describing auto-hyperventilation.
No thanks. Regular meditation will do fine.

No it's not. Did you even read the post? The guy was explaining how after hyperventilating, holding the breaths causes a chain in sudden blood flow in the brain and dramaticaly changes awareness. *sigh* I see this on other forums too, lazy ppl don't even read thread intro's anymore, they just want to reply as fast as they can.

 

[daspaismusflo]

This sounds like a milder version of the 'Wim Hof' method, and I can certainly vouch for the amazing sensations that gives rise to!

IIRC, during his interview with Joe Rogan (well worth a listen) he recounted how he was hooked up to all kinds of sensors in a Dutch university medical faculty, doing his breath-work. Anyway, apparently it did cause a measurable rise in plasma pH. Not very much, 0.1 or 0.2 maybe, but a consistent, repeatable rise, which he went on to claim delivered significant health benefits.

Otherwise, I agree that blood cannot be made to undergo sizeable swings in pH, at least, not while you're still using it...:d

No it isn't similar really. I have actually watched that interview. The difference is that wim hof is breathing over entended periods of time and not holding his breath to induce blood pooling to change awareness. This method the OP describes sharp breaths by a steady hold, this isn't just 'hyperventilating'. I guess the OP should have made that more clear

 

[n0thing]

This method the OP describes sharp breaths by a steady hold, this isn't just 'hyperventilating'. I guess the OP should have made that more clear

Thanks daspaismusflo, I will edit my first post. I probably turned a lot of people away cuz of that, lol.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

You just posted two post contradicting each other?

Are you asking me or telling me?

First you said alkalosis isn't possible then you go on to post a wiki link that states it is? Are you going to edit your post?

No, what I said is "claims about methods of 'alkalizing' your blood tend to be total nonsense," which, afaik, is still a correct statement, considering the veritable mountain of "alkaline diets" being advertised online.

Then, man from chan chan made a post indicating that my understanding was incomplete, so I dug further and found the wikipedia article that actually named the phenomenon (something the OP failed to do while making vague overtures about medical safety from unknown experts). As no one had actually named the phenomenon, it seemed worthwhile to provide the link so that others who had a similar understanding as myself could find out more.

As to the question of whether or not I'm going to edit my post, the answer is no (although I must admit, I'm a little baffled as to why you seem concerned with this). My initial post presents my initial reaction to this thread. My second post presents the progression from that initial reaction, having learned something new. I, personally, don't find this finding particularly interesting at this time, so I didn't comment further as I didn't have anything to add.

If you're confused as to why I did not edit my post, it's simple; I'm not looking to present some facade of omniscience or understanding. My first post is an accurate representation of my thoughts/reaction when I made it. My second post is an accurate representation of my thoughts/reaction when I made it.

Were I to edit all my posts whenever my understandings/thoughts/reactions/perspectives/etc change, I would spend much of my time editing prior posts. This seems both silly and disingenuous. I learned something new, and my posts in this thread (far from being contradictory) present the progression of knowledge from one post to the next.

8)

 

[n0thing]

cmon now

This is something completely different, just related because of hyperventilation.

Hmmm, I know I was very impressed with Stan Grof when I first came across him but then the more I read and watched, the more doubts began to appear. Don't know if anyone else feels the same :?

Perhaps there might be a bit of a show played because of his world-wide publicity? The cosmic game is a good speach though! IME, I didn't want to go that deep in to holotropic breathwork because of the pins and needles that are induced. It is uncomfortable but no doubt the state of mind that it brings about is enjoyable, but not as enjoyable or as profound as the method I put forth.

 

[daspaismusflo]

You just posted two post contradicting each other?

Are you asking me or telling me?

First you said alkalosis isn't possible then you go on to post a wiki link that states it is? Are you going to edit your post?

No, what I said is "claims about methods of 'alkalizing' your blood tend to be total nonsense," which, afaik, is still a correct statement, considering the veritable mountain of "alkaline diets" being advertised online.

Then, man from chan chan made a post indicating that my understanding was incomplete, so I dug further and found the wikipedia article that actually named the phenomenon (something the OP failed to do while making vague overtures about medical safety from unknown experts). As no one had actually named the phenomenon, it seemed worthwhile to provide the link so that others who had a similar understanding as myself could find out more.

As to the question of whether or not I'm going to edit my post, the answer is no (although I must admit, I'm a little baffled as to why you seem concerned with this). My initial post presents my initial reaction to this thread. My second post presents the progression from that initial reaction, having learned something new. I, personally, don't find this finding particularly interesting at this time, so I didn't comment further as I didn't have anything to add.

If you're confused as to why I did not edit my post, it's simple; I'm not looking to present some facade of omniscience or understanding. My first post is an accurate representation of my thoughts/reaction when I made it. My second post is an accurate representation of my thoughts/reaction when I made it.

Were I to edit all my posts whenever my understandings/thoughts/reactions/perspectives/etc change, I would spend much of my time editing prior posts. This seems both silly and disingenuous. I learned something new, and my posts in this thread (far from being contradictory) present the progression of knowledge from one post to the next.

8)

You said those ideas tend to be 'total nonsense', that infers that the OP's post is total nonsense too. You state that such nonsense stems from websites describing diet changes to the blood PH when this thread is directly about respiritory changes to blood ph. If you just could of went on to read the post before yours, it stating that this was true... but you skipped that post because you were impatient and then made a 'boo boo' which you don't want to clear up. This is called 'bad ettiquite'. I am not trying to be confrontational here, just want to bring to light what is good conduct in both forum life and real life too so that we can all have better conversations.

You are free to do as you wish. From my experience of life though, I understand it is good conduct to re-edit your previous mistakes... similar to developing a personality of bad habits. If you don't feel the need to correct where you once made a mistake then that is ok and not considered 'bad' conduct but it is generally a good thing to reform previous mistakes... kind of like, when you spill something... it is generally a good idea to go and clean it up :lol: :thumb_up:

 

[T.Harper]

im confused are you saying *respiratory alkalosis* is the mechanism (?), but I thought that is the same thing of what happens in breathwork and breathing carbogen ? I understand its 'shorter' and you doing it before DMT.... but im confused