Possible path to hyperspace without drugs?

[Jupitor]

I've been researching the practice of lucid dreaming a lot lately, and have been learning the practice in hopes of eventually reliably achieving this state on a nightly or near nightly basis. I have so far been successful on only several occasions, none of which lasted very long as I still have a lot to learn.

Previously, I've had some very vivid but otherwise normal dreams in which I ingested a psychedelic. And I could not tell in my dream that it was not an actual mushroom experience. Which leads me to...

What if one became so skilled at lucid dreaming that they could then smoke DMT or whatever in the dream and find themselves in actual hyperspace? Would this constitute a drug free back door alternative to the traditional paths of fasting, years long meditations, etc?

It seems like this could potentially be a viable path for those wishing to attain these high states of consciousness without having to remove themselves from society and holing themselves up in a cave somewhere.

Of course the real question is- Would it really be hyperspace? Seems plausible due to the fact that DMT is endogenous. Could we activate that within our dreams?

Could the molecule itself be merely another type of hack into hyperspace? In other words, perhaps DMT is just a door to the place, not the creator of the place.

Or would actively dreaming of hyperspace merely be a cognitive extrapolation of it based on previous experiences?

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on the matter?

 

[dragonrider]

I think it depends on the degree to wich you've mastered the skill of lucid dreaming. It probably takes a while.

I have a lucid dream once in a while myself. But they have never become as lucid as real life tends to be.
But some people apparently can become completely lucid, without waking up.

 

[xss27]

Up until my early twenties I had some potent lucid dreams and ability, and some experiences that were essentially waking consciousness inside the dream state. Something I realised early on was that dreaming is essentially a reflective memory process and that it's very difficult to 'imagine' on the fly consciously.. you can call up certain environments or contexts, much like a search engine will return what it thinks is the best result for your keyword, but to create each detail is more akin to our physical sight where there is a very small area of key focus at the centre and a broad semi-focus periphery that is created sub-consciously. Two key wishes of mine returned those realisations: trying to go into outer space, and have sex (with no real world experience). Flying across a landscape at high speed also returned the limitations of the process, where it couldn't keep up with generating new imagery.

In regards to DMT in lucid dreaming, the short answer would be that trying for it there is a waste of time. However, the skills you learn would be applicable to trying astral projection, which is hyperspace. I mean true astral projection, not the out-of-body experiences, etheric projection or lucid dreams that people often conflate with it.

I have had a handful of those true astral projection experiences and they have a lot of similarity to the visual aspect of DMT. The 'feel' of it is different though, it's more crisp, ordered, and less of a whirlwind. Sort of like the CEV's you get on quality MDMA.. geometry, rainbow tinted and edged solids, floating in a black space etc.

You won't be able to predict or call upon the state reliably, IMO. It is spontaneous and, I believe, restricted by a greater part of yourself or some sort of force (experienced this in lucid dreaming too), probably for self-preservation of the mind.

The key is basically meditation in the prone position (laying horizontal), allowing the body to fall asleep whilst keeping the mind awake. That's it in a nutshell. You can practice it every night before you fall asleep, learning to keep your internal focus and self-attention.

 

[Jees]

I certainly had dmt-ish dreams when not lucid dreaming, so potential is there somewhere for sure.

Even when it doesn't resemble hyperspace, maybe some alike or other states are unknowingly attainable worth developing. The black box might be surprisingly more wide/deeper than anticipated, only waiting for us to be opened and explored. Some found treasures might as well be forgotten once awake.

In the consciousness area I feel we're pretty much oaf apes, we get to know with certainty that there's a lot possible but not at fingertips ready at will, we've got to make quite some stretches and efforts to delve into the infinite mines. With regret I feel we're more inherently wired for quarrel than surfing conscious waves

 

[FranLover]

The heart is the hero of the universe. From the heart of goodness arise all of creation. There are no limits to the mind. Absolutley no limits.

Meditation and the path of goodness and love, ending suffering, and becoming one with god. Put the path to the test; it is full proof. That is why the ancient knowledge has been conserved for so long, for the well being of all sentient beings across the cosmos.

Its a marvelous, wonderous, and beautiful knowledge, and an awesome technology of the soul very much worth putting to the test. The heart's string is tide to all of creation, to all beings; one is all. Therefore one is everything and nothing. Its wonderful to have this knowledge and to rejoice in the fact that this is our birth right. An undisputable truth which can be discovered through reason, epistological observations, the cultivation of virtues, direct observation of phenomena, phenomemenology, and the yogic and meditative practice

 

[AikyO]

Well, if you think of it, spciety is a cave we are in and where we experience extra sensory, out there and highly electrical, experiences through the means of technology.

It may be possible through dreams in the way you describe: that by having experienced it once you can call it back and trick yourself in a way.

As I don't really know much about dreams, there's not a lot on my mind about this exept that, even though Hyperspace was indeed still vividly close at the time of going to sleep, it seemed more the effect of entering a mid point and the consequences of laying down in a specific pose.

The pose always seems really important. When you stand up, your blood flow is very different that if you are lying down. Then the blood flow is directed toward the root. For the head, toward the occipital.

But why seek to cheat on meditation when the path is more important than the full blown giggle ? If you have diluted the experience in your entire life, you had time to observe and understood it more precisly.

Isn't there one thing, may that be a plants, a forest, a cloud, a building, a district, the back of my hand, this shattered leaves on the ground that isn't 'entities'? Because you see it all at the same time, it is. But you don't see all of you at the same time. The view of ourselves is very vague. We don't focus on our bodies. It's sort of like alien to us, who have grown in caves. Yet even if you are to focus, there is such information that it would be hard to make sense of it all as you get more sensitive, even more sensitive. It is easy for the mind to project and hold meaning that is approximate or self fulffiling. To piece away understanding and yourself in the meantime, as you are understanding yourself, is living in the flesh and moment to moment this 'not knowing'.

So the occipital, that is a bone. What is most heavy in the body is water. What is liquid and always flows. But if you focus on bones and drive the liquid toward it, something happens maybe. Pierce a whole and a gateway. The bones are to the blood like the moon is to the sea, someone might say.

Maybe because veins are like rivers in our bodies, as they are the most accessible fractal pattern, right under the skin, that you have learned to feel as you did with your breath, the air on your skin, maybe you can feel that. What would be to happen if instead of projecting on outward fractal patterns, you were to project on fractal pattern that are within you, that you can feel, but that you aren't used to ... wouldn't that feel like being taken apart ? And your mind that is ever flowing, if it were to project on that which is like water, wouldn't it feel home ? Wouldn't it all feel more real than real, the mind being within itself ?And if your body has reveled itself to be like the world, flowing of rivers, then taken apart maybe you now can feel you are like the world and understand this world within world.

That is a hypothesis for you. But then to have to be able to sense it and experience. Was it meaningful me telling, I don't know. Words within words.