wow.. this is great!! :d
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Protests in Spain - System restart?
- Thread starter endlessness
- Start date
I also believe in the importance of a bottom-up aproach, but for real large scale changes we need the government. A ban on products made with the aid of slavery and products that cause extreme pollution is realy one of the things we're gonna need the government for.endlessness said:Im not sure whats the whole solution, I dont think anybody is, but it certainly must start by people starting to feel empowered and an integral part of society, and wishing for things to change, and then slowly organizing themselves without limiting themselves by the bureaucracies of standard institutions, and collectively trying to come up with solutions. Im not a blind idealist, I dont think the event by itself is the answer to everything: just like with psychedelic experiences, the integration is essential. But im so happy this is happening, the very existence of this is already changing things one way or another.
I was just there now again and it was really really nice, totally peaceful, people happy and smiling, the place is very clean etc. And I swear I was nearly crying when I saw people have taken over the non-productive grassy areas of the main city square and are turning it into a vegetable/herb/fruit garden. People with their garden tools, children, the youth and older people, collectively planting fruit trees, vegetables and herbs in the main square of the city. Is this beautiful or what ?
Without such a europe-wide ban, companies that behave in a responsable manner will simply be swept away by the competition. Look at the suicides in chinese factories. There is no way a company that treats it's workers fairly can compete with the big factory's full of slaves. A ban could force all those factory owners to change their ways of conduct, but it will only work if it's imposed europe-wide.
Even the largest EU members like germany are no match for the huge economic powers behind slavery.
If we realy want to change things drastically, we will have to do it on a large scale. The EU as a whole must start taking responsibility. The european union must be drastically reformed and country's must hand over power to it.
Things like trade and foreign policy should be in the hands of the EU and not in the hands of EU memberstates. China, india and america laugh at insignificant little country's like germany, britain or france.
Leave the big global issues to europe and let europe stay out of national issues. And give europe the power to handle those big issues.
A country like ireland would not even BE in great trouble if handling the banking crisis would have been in european hands. For a small country like ireland, the price for bailing out it's banks was just too big and eventually it became to be more than half of the national depth. For europe as a whole, it would have been an insignificant financial ripple, because europe as a whole is easily 100 times as big as ireland. Just one of the many examples of how europe is NOT working the way it should.
The anti-EU sentiments in europe are a clear example of how the people simply don't see the bigger picture, though. Just like the protests against government plans to up the age of retirement gradually. Anybody can see that a system where an increasingly larger percentage of the population is not working will at some point come to a halt. While for people in their 30's or 40's, having to work for only a few years longer is not a big sacrifice at all. Especially not when you know you could live to become 100 years.
I like these protests in spain, but i think the majority of the people in western europe is simply too short-sighted to face reality. They only want to cling-on to the wealth they're used to, without either doing something for it or taking the responsability that comes with it.
But how do you expect the politicians/EU parlament to make these positive decisions you talk about? What will move them towards that? How will the private interests of the corporations stop influencing governing? The system is made in a way that it's mechanisms serve only to reproduce itself.
Im not gonna keep doing the same as always if it hasnt ever worked, Im not gonna sit my ass and wait for the day these politicians will magically change their minds and repent for their actions (and that tv annouces it for me). I hope more and more people put pressure in their governments, protest, propose changes, work actively short and long term through personal development and community actions. That way maybe if the politicians dont suddenly become conscious and the system is completely revolutionized, at least they will be forced to make some positive changes in order to please people with their growing discontent.
The relationship of police and the protesters is amazing in most places
People are offering food plates and water to policemen, hugging them, etc.
(and yeah there's some pretty good free food being offered)
Im not gonna keep doing the same as always if it hasnt ever worked, Im not gonna sit my ass and wait for the day these politicians will magically change their minds and repent for their actions (and that tv annouces it for me). I hope more and more people put pressure in their governments, protest, propose changes, work actively short and long term through personal development and community actions. That way maybe if the politicians dont suddenly become conscious and the system is completely revolutionized, at least they will be forced to make some positive changes in order to please people with their growing discontent.
The relationship of police and the protesters is amazing in most places
People are offering food plates and water to policemen, hugging them, etc.
(and yeah there's some pretty good free food being offered)
EquaL Observer
Ross
Definitely a step in the right direction. I see many protest groups protesting over minor issues... mostly involving money. An everything-is-going-wrong protest is more up my alley 8) - "Let's be humans again" - well put!
There's definitely been a lot happening recently it seems... maybe a good time to hit the city centre, stand on a podium, work myself into emotional turmoil and despair then rant poetically about the societal condition...
There's definitely been a lot happening recently it seems... maybe a good time to hit the city centre, stand on a podium, work myself into emotional turmoil and despair then rant poetically about the societal condition...
I agree with you. I'm not sitting and waiting either. I'm just saying that i'm pessimistic about the future. I would still do most of the things i believe in if i knew that the world would end tomorrow, because i don't think we have a choice. We have to do what we think is right, but that doesn't mean i would't be pessimistic of my chances of making a difference. The world we're living in is a pretty fucked-up place.endlessness said:But how do you expect the politicians/EU parlament to make these positive decisions you talk about? What will move them towards that? How will the private interests of the corporations stop influencing governing? The system is made in a way that it's mechanisms serve only to reproduce itself.
Im not gonna keep doing the same as always if it hasnt ever worked, Im not gonna sit my ass and wait for the day these politicians will magically change their minds and repent for their actions (and that tv annouces it for me). I hope more and more people put pressure in their governments, protest, propose changes, work actively short and long term through personal development and community actions. That way maybe if the politicians dont suddenly become conscious and the system changes, at least they will be forced to make some changes in order to please people with their growing discontent.
The relationship of police and the protesters is amazing in most places
People are offering food plates and water to policemen, hugging them, etc.
(and yeah there's some pretty good free food being offered)
Limeni
Rising Star
Well the BBC has finally noticed (after 6 days!).
lol..."25,000 people" - WTF?! :roll:
A few encouraging quotes:
.
Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has expressed some sympathy for the protesters, noting their "peaceful manner".
Some protesters had said they feared a police crackdown, but Interior Minister Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba said the police were "not going to resolve one problem by creating another".
Police were on the scene but did not intervene and the outdoor sit-in appears to be growing rather than ending, says our correspondent.
. .
We in the UK can only look on in envy at the peacefulness of the demonstration. I can't help feeling that if this had been here, the police would by now have infiltrated some of their own provocateurs to start smashing things up and causing violence...providing them with a pretext to come charging in.
endlessness - thanks for taking the time to translate all those banners. You are so lucky to be part of this historic event.
.
lol..."25,000 people" - WTF?! :roll:
A few encouraging quotes:
.
Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has expressed some sympathy for the protesters, noting their "peaceful manner".
Some protesters had said they feared a police crackdown, but Interior Minister Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba said the police were "not going to resolve one problem by creating another".
Police were on the scene but did not intervene and the outdoor sit-in appears to be growing rather than ending, says our correspondent.
. .
We in the UK can only look on in envy at the peacefulness of the demonstration. I can't help feeling that if this had been here, the police would by now have infiltrated some of their own provocateurs to start smashing things up and causing violence...providing them with a pretext to come charging in.
endlessness - thanks for taking the time to translate all those banners. You are so lucky to be part of this historic event.
.
polytrip said:
I agree that regardless if I consider I will have a significant effect or not, I still will do what I feel is right.
I never meant to imply you werent doing anything, btw, I just meant in general, the general population's conformist attitude.
As for the pessimism, what can I say? I just wish you were here to see it for yourself, I wouldnt believe it if I wasnt seeing it, it's really so emotionally moving to see this happening the way it is.
joedirt said:
Its obvious why it isn't all over the news. Becasue the media is controlled by the powers that were, and they are not going to show something of this nature as it could spark similar movements across the world. When the people stand together peacefully, and refuse to follow "their" system, then the system cannot function. It needs of complicity and when we refuse to give it, the old paradigm falls away and something new is born.
The awakening has begun. Much love and respect and gratitude to the Spanish people!!!!! SHOW US THE WAY!!! BE THE EXAMPLE THE REST WILL FOLLOW!!!
Protesters cleaning name-tagging left by vandals in the stores nearby the protest area
The media is starting to stop the coverage on this movement, and they paint a picture that leads readers to think there is no future to this movement, that its all idealist hippie-wannabes with no depth to the protest. It's all a big manipulation from the media!!
The movement is still going on and its amazing! People have formed associations and network of activist groups in a way never seen before. There is still no leader or single group that tries to lead it, its very horizontal. Also people were even rejecting money donations and said if there is someone asking for money they do not represent the movement. Loads of actions have been taken and are planned too, independent of the occupation of the squares, which is still going on. There are less people in the squares now, because week started and many have jobs, but there are still a few hundred permanent people that sleep there and maintain everything clean. The media tells as if the diminishing amounts of people = movement going down, but I can say first hand it is definitely not so! People are now organizing through the internet, there is an official forum, and there are loads of actions planned for the future.
The feeling in the air is definitely "we have won", even if it might take a while for everybody to see that. Now you guys and girls need to start this out where you are! Please spread the word on whats really happening and what a beautiful example this is for young people around the world.
Rooftop
Rising Star
Big thanks, Endlessness, for the inspiring reportage! Keep it coming!
Hope this spreads to other countries, but it seems to me that having half of the country's youth unemployed is a major requirement to spark this kind of movement.... Although this also may spread sooner rather than later...
Que la fuerza queda con vosotros!
Hope this spreads to other countries, but it seems to me that having half of the country's youth unemployed is a major requirement to spark this kind of movement.... Although this also may spread sooner rather than later...
Que la fuerza queda con vosotros!
I wonder how this works out.. some things will change if the situation gets worse. The situation in spain is just another symptom of things happening on a bigger scale ofcourse. As those people are not really needy like really hungry yet, the situation remains peacefull, might even bring out the best The real problems arise when the situation becomes so bad that there are clearly those with allot of everything and those without. Then the not (anymore) happy slave starts to riot. Much like in police states i guess, where things always gradually escalate into violence.
I hope countries like Spain can cut a path to a fairly fair world, before the shit really hits the fan. Hopefully people there now, including government people, can eventually work together (instead of wearing each other out) to make something beautifull and of pure intent. Though i doubt it is in the interest of the ones who want to remain powerfull. One can stay powerfull only when the other is not. Unfortunately that is how it works.
For so long the situation in Spain is hopefull and truly inspiring. I will give you that. And i like it.
Hopefully it is not a bad case of tumor.
Yea man, nice pictures.
and thanx for the info.
The real problems arise when the situation becomes so bad that there are clearly those with allot of everything and those without. Then the not (anymore) happy slave starts to riot. Much like in police states i guess, where things always gradually escalate into violence. I hope countries like Spain can cut a path to a fairly fair world, before the shit really hits the fan. Hopefully people there now, including government people, can eventually work together (instead of wearing each other out) to make something beautifull and of pure intent. Though i doubt it is in the interest of the ones who want to remain powerfull. One can stay powerfull only when the other is not. Unfortunately that is how it works.
For so long the situation in Spain is hopefull and truly inspiring. I will give you that. And i like it.
Hopefully it is not a bad case of tumor.
Yea man, nice pictures.
and thanx for the info.
Pebble on the Beach
C r a c k B l i p T o o t T o o t ! ! !
I cannot thank you enough for bringing this to my attention.
This is absolutely beautifull.
This is absolutely beautifull.
Thanks for the support guys!
So yesterday I went to sleep there in the streets with everybody, it was really great It felt amazing, I felt completely safe sleeping next to loads of friendly strangers, felt like a community
I met loads of people of all kinds, from the typical alternative people, to also very "normal" people of all ages and origins.
Every day there are new things happening, its getting more and more evolved, organized, networked. There is constant interaction with people from madrid and other protests around spain and the world, and everything being organized through internet too.
They have an own tv channel now (no idea where its broadcasting to, I dont own tv), radio, they have lawyers who are helping out and ready to act on any emergency. There is a library with hundreds of books and you can just get whatever you want. The food area has become some mega buffet thing with loads of people working all day long. I met some people related to the food area and apparently they are working like 16 hours a day with maybe 1 hour break !!!! Very thankful for the hard work, in the busy times there are huuuuuge queues, also some homeless people showing up for that and of course they dont deny food for anybody.
Another really cool thing: People are building little supports/structures/houses on trees. They got inspired by some protests in scotland I think, where protesters climb trees because it is much harder for police to take people out if they are on trees (they cant just shoot something at you because you might fall and die, plus they cant go in hundreds to take you out, they would have to climb the tree and if they use a ladder, whoever is on top can always just push it away). I met the guy who's building these structures, some cool dude who is part of the Okupa movement (people who invade abandoned houses and appartments and live in communities), he's super genious with constructing things, he works on the electricity/water arrangements of most of these occupied houses around the city, etc.
Now for the problems: 1- Alcohol. Most of the people there are being really explicit that this is no party (botellón, which is the spanish name for these parties where people go just to drink). Nevertheless the simple fact that it is in the center of the city, next to nightlife area, attracts some drunken passerbys who aren't in line with the protest spirit. Also because its a lot of people, now it attracted the typical beer sellers that are always where crowds are (which are quite annoying, coming up to you "cerveza beer?" and keep insisting even if you say no, and when they leave comes the next, sucks big time). Nevertheless this is more or less restricted to the outside of the square where the protest is happening, on the outer "circle". Inside where everything is, the spirit maintains itself, and also people ask the beer sellers to not come in (though that isnt always respected).
2-"Vampires" - Junkies with strange attitude, weirdos, people there just for there for 'sucking' on the free stuff, etc, they are also around. Its only natural that they would come, but like with the alcohol issue, they are a minority and the overal atmosphere is respected. Nonetheless im affraid that one of these people could cause some problem, but the "respect" comission is working really hard to keep everything in line. Reminds me a bit of the nexus
3-The vegetable garden is too small. During the first days of protests, people were standing on the grass/flowers, so it destroyed. The garden people "recovered" an area but it is very small compared to the whole grass area that could be worked on. I will go tomorrow if I have time and if the gardening tools are still there (and if anybody there can donate plants/vegetables/seeds) and will work on increasing the garden.
4- What will happen after the Barcelona game on saturday? Normally if they win there would be a huge vandal-like party in this same square where protest is happening. Thousands of drunken violent football fanatics meeting the peaceful protest doesnt sound like a good mix. The townhall wants to put the celebration to another square but there is still the chance some drunken football fanatics pass by there. Some of the comissions are asking police for protection if that is the case, I hope it ends up well, lets see
So, even though there are these issues, as I said, it is actually a minority/small part, the overal general feeling is incredible, I really try to describe but there are no words, I get goosebumps just writting this post and thinking about it. Im so proud of humanity that this is happening, I hope this can spread, and I think you guys should try. Use the spain protests as example, spread the message using internet, pick a date and go protest there
Wish us luck, and I wish you luck
Oh and, since there was so much text in my post, check out this gallery of portraits from some of the people there, its pretty nice I think:
Protesters portraits
So yesterday I went to sleep there in the streets with everybody, it was really great
It felt amazing, I felt completely safe sleeping next to loads of friendly strangers, felt like a community I met loads of people of all kinds, from the typical alternative people, to also very "normal" people of all ages and origins.
Every day there are new things happening, its getting more and more evolved, organized, networked. There is constant interaction with people from madrid and other protests around spain and the world, and everything being organized through internet too.
They have an own tv channel now (no idea where its broadcasting to, I dont own tv), radio, they have lawyers who are helping out and ready to act on any emergency. There is a library with hundreds of books and you can just get whatever you want. The food area has become some mega buffet thing with loads of people working all day long. I met some people related to the food area and apparently they are working like 16 hours a day with maybe 1 hour break !!!! Very thankful for the hard work, in the busy times there are huuuuuge queues, also some homeless people showing up for that and of course they dont deny food for anybody.
Another really cool thing: People are building little supports/structures/houses on trees. They got inspired by some protests in scotland I think, where protesters climb trees because it is much harder for police to take people out if they are on trees (they cant just shoot something at you because you might fall and die, plus they cant go in hundreds to take you out, they would have to climb the tree and if they use a ladder, whoever is on top can always just push it away). I met the guy who's building these structures, some cool dude who is part of the Okupa movement (people who invade abandoned houses and appartments and live in communities), he's super genious with constructing things, he works on the electricity/water arrangements of most of these occupied houses around the city, etc.
Now for the problems: 1- Alcohol. Most of the people there are being really explicit that this is no party (botellón, which is the spanish name for these parties where people go just to drink). Nevertheless the simple fact that it is in the center of the city, next to nightlife area, attracts some drunken passerbys who aren't in line with the protest spirit. Also because its a lot of people, now it attracted the typical beer sellers that are always where crowds are (which are quite annoying, coming up to you "cerveza beer?" and keep insisting even if you say no, and when they leave comes the next, sucks big time). Nevertheless this is more or less restricted to the outside of the square where the protest is happening, on the outer "circle". Inside where everything is, the spirit maintains itself, and also people ask the beer sellers to not come in (though that isnt always respected).
2-"Vampires" - Junkies with strange attitude, weirdos, people there just for there for 'sucking' on the free stuff, etc, they are also around. Its only natural that they would come, but like with the alcohol issue, they are a minority and the overal atmosphere is respected. Nonetheless im affraid that one of these people could cause some problem, but the "respect" comission is working really hard to keep everything in line. Reminds me a bit of the nexus
3-The vegetable garden is too small. During the first days of protests, people were standing on the grass/flowers, so it destroyed. The garden people "recovered" an area but it is very small compared to the whole grass area that could be worked on. I will go tomorrow if I have time and if the gardening tools are still there (and if anybody there can donate plants/vegetables/seeds) and will work on increasing the garden.
4- What will happen after the Barcelona game on saturday? Normally if they win there would be a huge vandal-like party in this same square where protest is happening. Thousands of drunken violent football fanatics meeting the peaceful protest doesnt sound like a good mix. The townhall wants to put the celebration to another square but there is still the chance some drunken football fanatics pass by there. Some of the comissions are asking police for protection if that is the case, I hope it ends up well, lets see
So, even though there are these issues, as I said, it is actually a minority/small part, the overal general feeling is incredible, I really try to describe but there are no words, I get goosebumps just writting this post and thinking about it. Im so proud of humanity that this is happening, I hope this can spread, and I think you guys should try. Use the spain protests as example, spread the message using internet, pick a date and go protest there
Wish us luck, and I wish you luck
Oh and, since there was so much text in my post, check out this gallery of portraits from some of the people there, its pretty nice I think:
Protesters portraits
I've heard that the police has rather violently ended the protests in barcelona today.
Yes and no. Taken out but back
There will be the final game of champions league that barcelona plays on saturday. Plaza Catalunya (where protest is) is the area where the thousands of drunken fanatics go to "celebrate". Every time they destroy loads of things, there are fights, etc. So whenever this happens, everything that can be used as a weapon (public "equipment" ) is removed. Now this time the protest was there, and the police claimed all the gas bottles and sticks from the structures and so on, could be used as weapons (Which does make sense, but another solution would be police stay there around the block to protect us against football fans and move their party elsewhere , or help move it temporarily pacifically) . So for safety they said they needed to remove, but would let people back in.
The thing is, the process of removal was disproportionately violent. The police were hitting with sticks even to the heads, defenseless people just sitting offering no threat. Thankfully people responded pacifically, nobody threw stuff at them or anything, and its all filmed (for example here), so the world can see. And we are back, and will be back or go wherever else is necessary in future actions. Anyways the concentration of the protest is just the main node that first united us, now it has spread beyond and there's no turning back
Now, everything material was removed, which is a pity, but people are back in. It was already like a mini-city, food, communication center, library, kindergarden, all sorts of structures for the different comissions etc etc etc its sad that all is removed, but doesnt matter we're back with our bodies and the social change already kickstarted. Im going there again in one hour.
There will be the final game of champions league that barcelona plays on saturday. Plaza Catalunya (where protest is) is the area where the thousands of drunken fanatics go to "celebrate". Every time they destroy loads of things, there are fights, etc. So whenever this happens, everything that can be used as a weapon (public "equipment" ) is removed. Now this time the protest was there, and the police claimed all the gas bottles and sticks from the structures and so on, could be used as weapons (Which does make sense, but another solution would be police stay there around the block to protect us against football fans and move their party elsewhere
, or help move it temporarily pacifically) . So for safety they said they needed to remove, but would let people back in.The thing is, the process of removal was disproportionately violent. The police were hitting with sticks even to the heads, defenseless people just sitting offering no threat. Thankfully people responded pacifically, nobody threw stuff at them or anything, and its all filmed (for example here), so the world can see. And we are back, and will be back or go wherever else is necessary in future actions. Anyways the concentration of the protest is just the main node that first united us, now it has spread beyond and there's no turning back
Now, everything material was removed, which is a pity, but people are back in. It was already like a mini-city, food, communication center, library, kindergarden, all sorts of structures for the different comissions etc etc etc its sad that all is removed, but doesnt matter we're back with our bodies and the social change already kickstarted. Im going there again in one hour.
Thank you for all of the updates and pictures Endlessness!
This movement is really inspiring. I need to try to find out if anything like this is being organized here in the US.
My prayers are going out to you guys!!
This movement is really inspiring. I need to try to find out if anything like this is being organized here in the US.
My prayers are going out to you guys!!
What the fuck. That video is so upsetting. Who ordered this? Who was in charge of these police? What are you doing to keep this from happening again? How widely is this violence from the police being reported in the media there? I wonder if you could get the officer's identification numbers from the videos and send copies of the film to their mothers?
endlessness said:
You people more than inspire me!
I will give you more than a wish for luck (you can have that to). I will offer a part of my daily meditations to you and this event specifically...everyday until it's resolved.
Keep up the good fight brother. It's only time until this spreads to the states and then we'll be asking you to wish us luck as well!
Peace...oh and GOOD LUCK!