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Protests in Spain - System restart?

Migrated topic.
Hakim Bay in his Temporary Autonomous Zone (TAZ) has presented a theory that freedom is never permanent. When talking about social upheaval only during revolution you can find true freedom. Never afterwards. Only when everything is falling apart, when there is chaos all around, when the system's cogs stop or seem to disappear, you can find yourself in a time between times. When the old age is no more and the new didn't arrived yet. It reminds me of the shamans and witches. You can find lots of references about their mediatory role, about how shamans are "in-between".

Hakim Bay is against political anarchism because he sees post-revolutionary world as yet another world of systems, even if those are federated syndicates and communes. "All defined structures seek stasis". I don't believe that better world is not worth fighting for. My experience is few years of an active political activity (see my introduction in the Nursery) so I'm always pleased and excited when system is falling apart. Even small lagging of the Matrix is something that makes me fascinated.

Do you know what I love so much about this revolt? It reminds me that any time, everywhere, system can fall. That you never know. Besides, each revolt is a sign of human spirit, of idealism that is thought to be dead. We think that money rule the world but in such times and places like Spain, Greece, Egypt, Tunisia and some other countries, you just feel that people ARE NOT passive observers idly watching as elites make their profits ruining lives of others. Revolts are like a simple message:

"We are alive and kicking!"
 
Sadhaka said:
Hakim Bay in his Temporary Autonomous Zone (TAZ) has presented a theory that freedom is never permanent. When talking about social upheaval only during revolution you can find true freedom. Never afterwards. Only when everything is falling apart, when there is chaos all around, when the system's cogs stop or seem to disappear, you can find yourself in a time between times. When the old age is no more and the new didn't arrived yet. It reminds me of the shamans and witches. You can find lots of references about their mediatory role, about how shamans are "in-between".
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I feel a close connection between "finding yourself in a time between times" and the death/rebirth experience. I consider revolution (and war) as a manifestation of the same underlying archetype. I tend to think that wars are necessary until human societies learn to manifest this archetype in other ways, one of which would be entheogenically supported rituals (Dionysian rites?) where the common man could die and be born again in a culturally supported social context.
 
Best wishes to all of those in Spain. Keep us posted. I'm always curious about how these things develop once they move off the street.
 
So the protests have oficially left the squares during the day. The meetings are being organized in cells in each neighborhood, and there is an attempt to coordinate, also through the internet.

A few days ago there was one protest in front of the parliament, where some people threw stuff and acted agressively. The movement has as a whole condemned those actions from isolated individuals. There was some accusations that undercover police have sparked some of the violence. In any case it seems the typical immature agressive "anti-system" used the opportunity to release some of their energy. So the media started painting a picture as if the movement was going down the drain, broken down, etc. But today a huge protest was organized, with 100,000 (!!!) people, bigger then ever, and totally peaceful. There were people amongst protesters who were in charge of preventing any violent actions. Was amazing numbers of people there, it seems there are indeed big numbers of people wanting change.

In the meanwhile, also one thing that I find that has been very interesting is loads of people gathering to block the entrance to the house when police is called to evict people who couldnt pay their mortgage (often old people, widows, people who got jobless because of crisis, families who would have nowhere to go, etc). They have already gotten the bank to renegotiate with some of the people, and prevented/delayed the eviction of dozens of others too.

I think this whole movement will have a positive long term impact, lets see, I hope so at least.
 
This whole thing has been so extraordinarily inspiring, and I still find it amazing that, if I hadn't been reading about it here on the Nexus, I wouldn't have heard anyrhing about it!

The most astonishing things about it are that it has kept its momentum so long, and that some sort of benign and enlightened leadership seems to have emerged.

Endlessness - do you have any understanding of how the leadership of it grew into being? It would be a very interesting story, and a model for similar events elsewhere in the future.
 
smokerx said:
Go and tell to them that they need some power over them to tell them what to do.... what are you going to do ?
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I think you misunderstood me...after they win, if they win, there will need to be order. This means certain people will be in charge of certain things; i.e they will have power (to varying degrees, in varying domains). This is true of any revolution throughout history, no need to get your hackles up over it, it's simply how things go in societies, there are power structures. They differ from society to society, but you're lying to yourself if you think they're not there.

As to what I'm doing...I'm currently working with several activist organizations and working on getting my own little project off the ground. Will it change things? Who knows...odds are it won't, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna give it a shot. I don't really understand why you're so standoffish in your reply...I'm working to the best of my abilities with people I know to affect change around me; that's all I can do. My comments on this and other threads stem from a love of history and politics and are mostly thoughts based on US civil/social movements and Western Hemisphere revolutions throughout the past century.
 
"There are dozens more rallies taking place all over Spain this evening; and on Monday, groups from as far away as Seville and Valencia will begin a month-long march to the capital."

Wow! a month long march? thats really impressive<3
 
endlessness said:
So the protests have oficially left the squares during the day. The meetings are being organized in cells in each neighborhood, and there is an attempt to coordinate, also through the internet.

A few days ago there was one protest in front of the parliament, where some people threw stuff and acted agressively. The movement has as a whole condemned those actions from isolated individuals. There was some accusations that undercover police have sparked some of the violence. In any case it seems the typical immature agressive "anti-system" used the opportunity to release some of their energy. So the media started painting a picture as if the movement was going down the drain, broken down, etc. But today a huge protest was organized, with 100,000 (!!!) people, bigger then ever, and totally peaceful. There were people amongst protesters who were in charge of preventing any violent actions. Was amazing numbers of people there, it seems there are indeed big numbers of people wanting change.

In the meanwhile, also one thing that I find that has been very interesting is loads of people gathering to block the entrance to the house when police is called to evict people who couldnt pay their mortgage (often old people, widows, people who got jobless because of crisis, families who would have nowhere to go, etc). They have already gotten the bank to renegotiate with some of the people, and prevented/delayed the eviction of dozens of others too.

I think this whole movement will have a positive long term impact, lets see, I hope so at least.
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Endlessness

Thank you ever so much for keeping us updated, it is my greatest hope too that this movement will have a lasting and positive impact...


Much Peace and Understanding
 
Limeni said:
This whole thing has been so extraordinarily inspiring, and I still find it amazing that, if I hadn't been reading about it here on the Nexus, I wouldn't have heard anyrhing about it!

The most astonishing things about it are that it has kept its momentum so long, and that some sort of benign and enlightened leadership seems to have emerged.

Endlessness - do you have any understanding of how the leadership of it grew into being? It would be a very interesting story, and a model for similar events elsewhere in the future.
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I would also like to understand how the leadership is achieving all of this. People being sick of the government is an easy motivator for people to get out, but the totality of nonviolence is absolutely awe inspiring. The Spanish people seem so eager to be a community. For some reason I'm pessimistic about that sense of community springing up in the states, but maybe I will be proved wrong soon.

It would be great to see things such as this start to organize in the states. I would love to be a part of this worldwide revolution.

I read somewhere that the major problem with the hippie movement was the drug usage getting out of hand. I love seeing the people of Spain embracing the ideals of that movement, reinventing the way they interact with their community, and bringing change in such an intelligent and thought provoking way.

Much love to you guys!
 
Looks like another round of clashes between police and protesters in Madrid:
At least 20 people have been injured - including seven police officers - in clashes between riot police and protesters in Madrid.

Police had stopped the demonstrators, known as "the indignants", from entering a square which has become a focus of anti-government protests.

Witnesses said police charged into a crowd outside the interior ministry.

Correspondents say it was the most serious incident since the protest movement began in mid-May.
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Endlessness (or anyone else for that matter), I'm wondering if you could give some perspective here about the protests. I know you've said most of them have been peaceful, though I'm curious about something slightly unrelated. Do the protesters have any plans that they're putting forward? Not that I don't find protest for the sake of awareness useful, but I haven't heard much from either the Spanish or the Greek about what system they would like to see in place of the current one. Do you happen to have any information on alternative forms of governance that part of the opposition is putting forward? Is this conversation even taking place there?
 
Yeah there are definitely many plans that have been put forward, some of them already starting to put in practice. The whole movement sparked a huge social debate about all sorts of reforms in voting laws, in the laws regarding mortgage debts, political transparency, etc.. Every week each neighbourhood has assamblees where proposals are made, and then neighbourhoods coordinate with one another. Then sometimes there are gatherings for everybody, and also there is coordination with other groups around Spain. There is a lot of work being done over the internet too, which is a tool we have on our side nowadays.

Also it seems this has helped sparking similar peaceful protests in other parts of the world, I hear in greece, israel, other places.

It's a great thing :)

As for the clashes in madrid, I wasnt there but I hear again police exceeded themselves with violence unnecessarily, and some people responded with pushing around but overall a peaceful response. It was totally unnecessary action because it was all to remove the few people that remained in the square, but then now people are back again. Anyways the movement already decided not to build structures/tents in the square but just have day activities and things of the sort, use it as a political gathering point.

The government is affraid because the pope is coming soon.. Also in general they see their easy days are over, now people have overcome the inertia and everybody feels ready to demand what we really deserve! Politicians will have to give up many of their benefits, one way or another, sooner or later but more sooner than later :)
 
endlessness said:
Yeah there are definitely many plans that have been put forward, some of them already starting to put in practice. The whole movement sparked a huge social debate about all sorts of reforms in voting laws, in the laws regarding mortgage debts, political transparency, etc.. Every week each neighbourhood has assamblees where proposals are made, and then neighbourhoods coordinate with one another. Then sometimes there are gatherings for everybody, and also there is coordination with other groups around Spain. There is a lot of work being done over the internet too, which is a tool we have on our side nowadays.
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Do you happen to have links to any websites or PDFs or something that is going around with details of what the plan would be going forward? Supposing the body politik is removed, what takes its place? I can't read Spanish so I don't know if these resources exist in English. I'm particularly interested because of Spain's history of social reorganization and their attempt to set up a decentralized anarchist society in the 1930's. Are people there referencing these previous attempts at system change? I support the ideology of the movement, but the devil is always in the details so I'm curious how this is being addressed.
 
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