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Psychedelics and Mental Illness

I think they could benefit with Carl Jung’s active imagination and individuation but it needs exactly what you mention is missing… empathy brought to the experience so that the hostile archetypes can be transformed. My ideas went beyond what Jung offered and my ideas were pretty much scoffed at, but a few people liked it.
I really like the tantric approach, where different deities represent unique aspects of our energy. Maybe Jung took inspiration from that old tradition. When you put a name & form on some inherent energy, it becomes easier to recognize and have a relationship with it. However, I doubt that it would be a good working model for someone with a real mental health issue. Work therapy and coherent social groups would be a better bet. We have a very hard time living in the modern world as it is, so society has no time for any deviation from the capitalist plan.
 
I really do agree that social belonging and work structure are vital, I just think inner mythic work can sometimes make those external efforts more sustainable. When a person’s inner world stops feeling like an enemy, the outer world becomes easier to live in.
I agree. The only problem I see is how to get through to a person and help create interest. Sometimes my own fuse is about to blow before I can even connect. That's a hard task.
 
I agree. The only problem I see is how to get through to a person and help create interest. Sometimes my own fuse is about to blow before I can even connect. That's a hard task.
I know lol yeah that’s the thing no matter what idea is brought to bear people just keep on with grandiose things and not rooted in the here and now just like you said… it’s really all over the place and yeah so little interest in proper grounding.
 
Psychedelics are most correctly thought to expose underlying mental illnesses, and can also, if used in an imbalanced way, exacerbate them, rather than simply create them.
A blanket statement such as no one with mental illness issues should ever use psychedelics can be very wrong and inaccurate for some people,
though it can be true in some cases that some just should not.

It can be a tricky subject.

I've been diagnosed with quite a few things. It all basically stems from improper handling of my juvenile formative years in life, being neurodivergent since the beginning,
and using drugs before my brain was fully developed amongst that improper handling in my youth also played a role.

But, with a lot of irony, I get a large part of what helps me now, at the age of 45, from psychedelics. Smoking and addiction behavior is behind me,
and now I keep things done with as much rhyme and reason as I can. I do not hide it. I like to talk openly with my therapist and shrink about what I do.
 
"Mental illness" is a very broad term, and depending on who you ask, it will include certain typologies or not. I personally wouldn't consider mental illness anything that doesn't have a serious negative impact on the person in their life, or the life of those around.

With this being said: yes, I agree that psychedelics have a high potential to unleash mental problems in people. They are not only amplifiers, they are destabilizing by nature, in the sense of disrupting the usual mental patterns. This can be very useful and can even become part of a new type of balance, but it can also leave someone who was already on edge in a very bad state.

I have personal experience with this. I first had psychedelics when I was 18. It was a moment of change in my life, as that age usually is. I had been living for many years in a bad situation with a lot of suffering, but was very unaware of it. And I was severely underdeveloped, emotionally. My first trip was with mushrooms that I grew, a low dose. I remember some Escher-type visuals, but most of all a feeling that something was terribly wrong with me and maybe reality itself. Like a stain on my soul.

My mind was already on edge, and psychedelics tipped it over the line. I fell in a severe depression with bouts of compulsion, strong anxiety, self-harming behaviors. I didn't understand what was going on and thought that it would improve by going deeper on the roots of the issues, so I tried to go deeper with psychedelics. It was all too much at once, and it only made things worse. Then the problem got even worse when I was overmedicated by a so-called psychiatrist, but that's a different story.

I got many good and helpful lessons from psychedelics even during those years, but it was not the right moment for me, and their overall effect was more harmful that good. at least the short and mid term effects; on a longer timeframe it's hard to say. But after my first experiences I should have stayed clear from them until I was more stable, I eventually did that.

What I learned from this situation is that one needs a minimum of stability for doing that kind of work. Psychedelics can help tear down outdated, maladaptive, or otherwise not very good mental structures, but there also needs to be some time to build something different in its place.

I don't know if it's a similar case for people who go into psychosis, maybe the causes there are different, although (besides a genetic predisposition) there often seems to be an aspect of overdoing it and not leaving time for integration. Probably someone else can offer more insight in how psychedelic-facilitated psychotic delusions feel from the inside. With pharmahuasca in particular, I've often had some "insights" about myself or reality that, while true in some kind of metaphorical way, would be very problematic if literally believed. So I wonder if there could be some factors related to this that could contribute to this kind of psychosis in some cases. To be clear, I'm not saying that all or even most cases of psychosis are caused by this. But I could see how someone who has never thought about any kind of metaphysical or spiritual topics and suddenly has an extreme experience that points to them apparently having some privileged, "special" knowledge about the nature of reality could more easily end up believing it.


Probably it depends on cases. If they are more open to conversation, listening to them and offering some understanding of their experiences without either judging them or supporting their delusions could be helpful. If it's one of those cases of strong messianic delusions where they have the ultimate truth and you're just an ignorant idiot jealous of them, I don't see a way to have any positive effects, and many ways to have negative ones.
It’s brought to mind two different cases I think you guys are discussing, like one case over simplified “the elves told me I belong there and I always forget” and people come back wide eyed because of that I have been through that type of experience and for me it was needing to integrate and understand how metaphorical these experiences are and how they come from our minds, and that speculation is ok but never present it as truth, it’s all just play and fun… i mean I originally took the stuff because i wanted a fun or at least fascinating experience. But in my wide eyed state, probably needed someone to just say hey look man, it doesn’t have to mean all of that. Slow down you took a very powerful drug and look how these other facts could explain what you saw. Getting made fun of was hard, and yeah an initial response may have been something like “oh he’s just jealous” type thing but the compassionate response made me listen more carefully. Other cases may be like still hearing voices and seeing things long after the trip is over. That needs some professional help and compassion again is probably key there too. I understand after seeing others dealing with it sometimes one might feel like giving them an elf slap 👋
 
It feels like we seldom talk about the dark side of psychedelic use: mental illness. Most of us know that psychedelics could trigger a dormant pathology in people. Even a healthy individual could go into psychotic states and experience what craziness is firsthand. I'd say that psychedelics are like walking a tightrope: you need to maintain a fine balance to stay sane and get all the benefits. Somehow, they attract mentally ill people like bees to flowers. I saw the same situation on the old Ayahuasca Forums. These people usually use extremely high doses and feed on others' attention. Not one of them made any sustained effort to fix the situation. All they did was play the part of a messiah and an I-know-it-all character.

Spirituality is just the same. You would not believe how much mental illness there is in churches and dharma centers. I get that liberation or awakening lies very close to insanity. Craziness is like a rite of passage into greater awareness of the Universe. Accepting it all and moving beyond mind loops opens you up to Reality. Still, it's all over the place...

What do you think about mental illness around psychedelics and spirituality? How can one best deal with these people?
They do not seem to respond to kindness or reasoning. At this point, I feel like leaving them to their own devices 😮‍💨
i am responsive to kindness and MOST reasoning ...
 
Psychedelics are most correctly thought to expose underlying mental illnesses, and can also, if used in an imbalanced way, exacerbate them, rather than simply create them.
A blanket statement such as no one with mental illness issues should ever use psychedelics can be very wrong and inaccurate for some people,
though it can be true in some cases that some just should not.

It can be a tricky subject.

I've been diagnosed with quite a few things. It all basically stems from improper handling of my juvenile formative years in life, being neurodivergent since the beginning,
and using drugs before my brain was fully developed amongst that improper handling in my youth also played a role.

But, with a lot of irony, I get a large part of what helps me now, at the age of 45, from psychedelics. Smoking and addiction behavior is behind me,
and now I keep things done with as much rhyme and reason as I can. I do not hide it. I like to talk openly with my therapist and shrink about what I do.
💯
 
It feels like we seldom talk about the dark side of psychedelic use: mental illness. Most of us know that psychedelics could trigger a dormant pathology in people. Even a healthy individual could go into psychotic states and experience what craziness is firsthand. I'd say that psychedelics are like walking a tightrope: you need to maintain a fine balance to stay sane and get all the benefits. Somehow, they attract mentally ill people like bees to flowers. I saw the same situation on the old Ayahuasca Forums. These people usually use extremely high doses and feed on others' attention. Not one of them made any sustained effort to fix the situation. All they did was play the part of a messiah and an I-know-it-all character.

Spirituality is just the same. You would not believe how much mental illness there is in churches and dharma centers. I get that liberation or awakening lies very close to insanity. Craziness is like a rite of passage into greater awareness of the Universe. Accepting it all and moving beyond mind loops opens you up to Reality. Still, it's all over the place...

What do you think about mental illness around psychedelics and spirituality? How can one best deal with these people?
They do not seem to respond to kindness or reasoning. At this point, I feel like leaving them to their own devices 😮‍💨
In my opinion, this is a very difficult but important topic.
It is generally hard to know what the "right" thing is.

People struggling with mental illness exist everywhere, independently of any particular sphere.
Psychedelics or spirituality do not create them, but they can reveal or amplify underlying issues.
These states can be chronic, episodic, or even voluntarily explored as a way to step outside of a "normal" state and investigate the edges of the mind.

One question is how to deal with these situations.
What helps one person may harm another.
Truth can ground someone, but it can also destabilize them.
Protective self-narratives or delusions may help someone endure, yet they can also be harmful long-term.

Sometimes, the only practical approach is to maintain distance.
Not everyone responds to kindness or reasoning, and trying to "fix" them can be futile or even harmful to yourself.
Recognizing your own limits is part of responsible engagement.

I do not have a definitive answer.
Perhaps the best we can do is try to understand each other and support each other’s needs as best we can, while also knowing when to step back.
 
In my opinion, this is a very difficult but important topic.
It is generally hard to know what the "right" thing is.

People struggling with mental illness exist everywhere, independently of any particular sphere.
Psychedelics or spirituality do not create them, but they can reveal or amplify underlying issues.
These states can be chronic, episodic, or even voluntarily explored as a way to step outside of a "normal" state and investigate the edges of the mind.

One question is how to deal with these situations.
What helps one person may harm another.
Truth can ground someone, but it can also destabilize them.
Protective self-narratives or delusions may help someone endure, yet they can also be harmful long-term.

Sometimes, the only practical approach is to maintain distance.
Not everyone responds to kindness or reasoning, and trying to "fix" them can be futile or even harmful to yourself.
Recognizing your own limits is part of responsible engagement.

I do not have a definitive answer.
Perhaps the best we can do is try to understand each other and support each other’s needs as best we can, while also knowing when to step back.
that's real
 
I Need help and feel invisible rightnow...
Here are a couple of places in addition to this thread where you can go into more detail, should you so desire:
If you have a specific situation to explore, feel free to start your own thread about it. Perhaps it ties in to why you feel drawn to DMT as a potentially healing substance?

There's also a chat room where you'll tend to get the chance of a more direct interaction from evenings CET through to later at night PT. If it's slow, try again later.
[Be sure to check over all our rules one more time, just in case…
and bear in mind, we can't actually give medical advice, so there's every chance that some circumstances will oblige us to point you in the direction of getting professional help.]
 
Here are a couple of places in addition to this thread where you can go into more detail, should you so desire:
If you have a specific situation to explore, feel free to start your own thread about it. Perhaps it ties in to why you feel drawn to DMT as a potentially healing substance?

There's also a chat room where you'll tend to get the chance of a more direct interaction from evenings CET through to later at night PT. If it's slow, try again later.
[Be sure to check over all our rules one more time, just in case…
and bear in mind, we can't actually give medical advice, so there's every chance that some circumstances will oblige us to point you in the direction of getting professional help.]
thanks friend 🙂
 
thanks friend 🙂
Reading between the lines, it also looks as though you might be seeking help in coming off opioids. There are plenty of people here with personal experience in that sphere, so a little patience and some frankness about your situation will win you both kind words and more practical support. There really are some solid characters to get to know here.

All strength to you on your healing journey in the meantime!
 
This is an interesting topic but it is so hard to generalize. Ive definatrly seen both sides of the coin where people benefit so much from psychedelics mental health wise but also seen it be quite detrimental to others. There seems to be some disorders where its more risky to use psychedelics but there always seems to be exceptions.

Regarding mentally ill people with seemingly inflated egos in spiritual or wellness circles. Im no expert on this topic but I think some of the people you might be describing have some kind of personality disorder. Maybe narcissistic or borderline I dunno. These types of disorders are harder to change or improve upon. They are part of the individuals personality.

I tend to just avoid people like that. But thats easy since I dont have to interact with any organization around psychedelics I dont want to.
 
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