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Psychedelics and Offspring

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DisEmboDied

Rising Star
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Here is an ultimate question, would you give psychedelics to your offspring?, of course once they reached a certain age such as 21.


That would be a true test as to how much you believe in psychedelics or their importance in life. May also be an ultimate test of one's sanity with or because of them.


Just a question, food for thought...


~Love and Light
 
I'd give aya to my child for sure, once they've reached a certain age. They do this in the Amazon, with no ill effects. I think it would amazing to open a youngster up to the possibility that the world is really magical.
 
No. I don't even like the idea of giving psychedelics to most adults, I'd rather they find them on their own, so I'm not responsible for their psyches.

I understand that this is different in some cultures, but not in this one, and I feel that in this one, a child has enough to integrate, just being a child, and that like most mind altering substances, the brain should be developed to adulthood in the vast majority of cases. (Cases where it isn't a medical necessity like CBD oil for severe seizures when nothing else works)
 
In general, yes, absolutely. Of course, reaching an age of maturity first is a given.

Specific to me, one child is just a matter of reaching the right age, while the other it seems unlikely ever.
 
What about when they are 21 even? What I really meant by children is one's offspring, not a child...
 
I am comfortable with sharing these things with my sons. Psychedelia isn't taboo in my family and we feel it should be represented appropriately.
My father taught me about the magic of mushrooms, and I've shared DMT with him and my mother many times.
The trust we have for each other carries through the medicine.
 
I would never push anything on my kids if I had kids (probably will happen sooner then later), but if they expressed interest then yes I would certainly share psychedelics with them. I have sat in ceremony in Peru with small children present and I cannot think of a single good reason to hide anything so helpful and beautiful from my children. Also - if I am the one sharing these things then I can make sure they are safe which is a bonus.

I already share everything openly with the rest of my family and community so this doesnt seem like it would be a big step for me - seems more obvious.
 
I know certain cultures do this very early but unless you are involved in that culture with the complex support system in place; you are placing yourself and your child at risk. Being a copy cat of other cultures is a slippy slope especially when google is your main information source and you have never seen these cultures first hand.

After years of discussions, being around trippers and having the ability to care for oneself properly by themselves -yes I would offer the option. To be honest I have seen many parents give things to children when the child really had no idea what was being offered- mostly for the parents own ego with little regard for the child! It has somehow become the "hip" thing to do sadly...

I have seen kids who have been exposed too early to these things talk about drugs at school innocently enough and the parents ended up in jail. I have also been around when a child had to be taken to the hospital because of freaking out on a micro dose of mushrooms-imagine explaining that one to children's aid! It is very risky!
 
Anamnesia said:
The question of giving entheogens to children is a bit ridiculous. Because it implies there is something the child can learn from it, and this information, because we think it is "ours", because we are of a dominator culture and subject to a terrible intellectual virus which underlies our greed, anger, desire for property, and our sense of duty and ownership, we now find ourselves on the dmt-nexus if it children should be allowed or if it's safe - and all that is malarky, something like spiritual pride. There is nothing a child can learn insofar as we feel the plant or mushroom is ours to decide whom is worthy of it's contact. Total nonsense. Makes me cringe.

I've thought about this quite a bit. When I refer to my plants as "my" plants. But they're not mine, they're living beings and I don't want to own them, just as I wouldn't want to own someone I love.

I tend to look at it like the old saying, "a good teacher shows you were to look, but doesn't tell you what to see."

I actually just drank aya with a friend, about an hour ago, we're sitting under this huge oak tree called the tree of life. I asked him what he thought about this, he said that it should just be allowed to find them naturally.
 
I think it is great for them if they discover it on their own and at an appropriate age. Of course, proper education is necessary and having a parent there to guide and educate them would definitely be beneficial. I do not have children so I can't really speculate on how I would handle it if my child was asking me questions or wanting to partake. However, I know that I would be honest and tell them all the ins and outs and everything that I have learned thus far in my journeys and then allow them to research and find their own path.

All a parent can really do is be supportive and informative but most of all, loving!

BundleflowerPower said:
"a good teacher shows you were to look, but doesn't tell you what to see."

:)

:love:
 
Anamnesia said:
Who are we to decide how we should educate our children?
Who are we to decide what kind of mental worlds human beings should be allowed to inhabit?
Discretion, patience, and attention to detail are three cardinal virtues one learns growing mushrooms,
which come in handy for the trip itself. But I've come to a point where I cannot see a valid distinction between the trip of the mushroom, (or the trip of any entheogen) and the trip of everyday so-called ordinary mundane human existence.
This is important to the point of this question. We will see why.

In a sane society, we would not worry about ownership rights to entheogens,
nor would we be having this purely hollow concern about other's mental health, (which is a manifestation of the former) because -
in the same way new vegetables come up in the spring, and all leaves again turn green without anyone or anything there to remind them how to do it,
young children do not need to be educated to "trip" because for them (at least up until a couple years of age before we destroy them with our hypocrisy) the experience of life as a whole is indistinguishable from what we so-called grown ups call the "goddamned real world", you know, where you got bills and responsibilities and life is tough and rough and grahhhhhhhhh I Must survive, I've GOT to go on living - that kind of thing.

I suppose in a nutshell what I am saying is this:

The question of giving entheogens to children is a bit ridiculous. Because it implies there is something the child can learn from it, and this information, because we think it is "ours", because we are of a dominator culture and subject to a terrible intellectual virus which underlies our greed, anger, desire for property, and our sense of duty and ownership, we now find ourselves on the dmt-nexus if it children should be allowed or if it's safe - and all that is malarky, something like spiritual pride. There is nothing a child can learn insofar as we feel the plant or mushroom is ours to decide whom is worthy of it's contact. Total nonsense. Makes me cringe.

Stop trying to teach children.
Alan once said that wisdom does not come from above down, but from below up.
Children. That's where the wisdom is. Just like the fresh air in the spring. It needs no guidance.

However, once we children have grown insane (that's what grown-ups are called), entheogens are indeed (in my experience so far, and that's not saying much) the most powerful catalyst of reversing the damage (called the hallucination of separation, which is the source of all so-called evil) done to our sanity by our desire to control ourselves, other people, the environment, anything that is outside of your own bag of skin - what kind of ideology is the right one. That's why all these wars are started. Because everyone is out to help someone else, to change someone else, to Teach someone else, to save someone else, to save the whole goddamn world. And it's hypocrisy.

Why can we not simply sit with ourselves?
Why can we not simply be responsible for ourselves?
The best thing you can do for the world is nothing.

Children, sane and wise, know this, but not in english. And because we insist on who they are and what our rules are, we as children forget what we come to find again (for most of us never in the course of our entire life but rather) only in our dying breath - consciousness being reabsorbed into the Light - and then we have a feeling of having been here before. Of course you do, because Everything is You.

Why can we not simply be responsible for ourselves?
Somebody mentioned fear of being responsible for someone else's psyche, that the drug if administered carelessly would cause psychosis or something. And that you'd have that on your conscience.
WelL you know we are each other. So, on the one hand we do not need to worry about this. It's not serious. In the end it all comes out in the wash. It doesn't matter what you do, because you can never make a mistake. If you are afraid of making a mistake, dosing up your kids, then they in that miracle state in their infinite wisdom will detect your lack of self-confidence, and by virtue of what Jung called the principle of transference, will absorb that feeling and therefore learn the exact same lesson, passing on to everyone they then later on contact Learning the same fear. And the whole thing starts all over again with their children. Everyone's afraid. Because everyone feels responsible for everyone else. Because no one knows everyone is the same Self. And that is Ignore-ance, which is separation, which is Suffering.
Welcome to the human world.

The point is doesn't matter. Do not seek a rule of thumb. That is for intellectual babies.
Existence is not a rule of thumb. It's more like a log in a stream.
And we're all logs in the stream. What is one log to say about another log's path down the river?
Well, anything you like - but remember they are just like you. The more you know about yourself,
the more you know about others. This understanding empowers confidence. And your own self-confidence actually, by some kind of osmosis, can be transmitted to others because they begin to feel "permission" to act for themselves just as you are. If everyone does that, you see, the question of who should receive what drugs and at what age and so on is meaningless. Making laws is trying to catch light from the sun in your hand to save it for later.

But, seriously guys, don't be giving mushrooms to children.
But, sincerely guys, you can if you want to.
hhahahahah

My God Amnesia!!!!!

I cried so hard & good as I read this post!!!!

You understand something extremely fundamental that I too understand & am often at odds with as far as how to express it clearly & eloquently in words; linear words in English that can never represent the Whole.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.:thumb_up:
 
Ok, sorry, not to get off track...

I can be such a thread derailer!!!!!:twisted:

Anyway, back to the op's question:

I decided back in the early 80's that I would never have children due to many factors, including the observation that there are WAY too many people on the planet already & it isn't getting any better mainly due to the amount of people continuing to grow by the second.

I ended up adopting (along with my wife) 3 kids...Two of which are well on their way (have finished college & have very amazing lives & careers) & one of which just graduated from high school a year early with straight A's the whole way through...

Not that I give a flying shit about success in the human realm & grades in school...

This has always been a weird line to tow in my life...

I want my kids to be happy & content, period. I don't really care what gets them there.

The only one of the three that even shows an interest in anything psychedelic is our youngest, who is currently 17.

I've promised her mother that I would not share any psychedelic substances with her until she's at least 18 years of age.

My daughter has approached me about this...She want's to do LSD with me when she's 18...I have reservations about this, but at the same time, I was the one who was like, when she was 15 & started smoking Cannabis, "well, she's smoking it anyway: we might as well smoke it with her a bit to guide her in the right direction"...

My wife sometimes thinks this was a big mistake...I don't see it that way...

I've taken LSD & mushrooms while taking said daughter on nature hikes with her friends (& her & her friends would smoke joints at hiking breaks)...Those times went very well, so I feel as if, if I chose to imbibe in some psychedelic with my youngest daughter, it would turn out to be pretty fantastic, but I'm not really looking forward to that...I think she needs to find it on her own, just as I did when I was but a year older than she is now...

She's taken some mushrooms at music festivals & has some pretty trippy experiences that she's had the confidence to relate to me (thank God; probably because I've told her that I've taken quite a bit of psychedelics in the past; she really has no idea just how many, how much, when, where, etc., but she knows that she can trust that I won't judge her & I will give good advice if I have any to give).


All in all, I feel that it's an organic process that should not be tinkered with.

Just my two cents...Thanks for reading.:)
 
Anamnesia,

I too felt really moved by your words... Thanks for sharing your thoughts my friend, your post really made my day.

Personally , if/when I have kids, I would prefer for them to find psychedelics on their own accord and if they do and would like to share that experience with me, then I'd be more than happy to do so when they are at an appropriate age.
 
Thank you again for sharing your magic Anamnesia ! I always appreaciate reading you : so many things you say that I can relate to ! It warms my heart to hear some one speak these words !

Personnaly, I am still young and my opinion is the same as the Doc Buxin of the 80's, but if I suppose I were to have children and that a legitimate interest in psychedelics was already there that I would be there for guidance.

I would never impose it upon anybody, but just like Anamnesia I know for a fact that psychedelics have immense potential for human growth.

:)
 
Anamnesia said:
Mustelid said:
I understand that this is different in some cultures, but not in this one, and I feel that in this one, a child has enough to integrate, just being a child, and that like most mind altering substances, the brain should be developed to adulthood in the vast majority of cases.

I think you underestimate the intelligence of children. Before the age of five, children in appropriate conditions can have acquired two or three, or more, languages, be a musical genius, or an artist, or a poet, or a rascal, anything you want. Children have forever to think, because they don't have the same so-called responsibilities as you and I.
What I really mean is children have forever to play. And are always fascinated with even the most weird things (from an adult point of view). You as a child did need integration in the way you speak of it, but because integration is a background process of some kind. Absorption of information married with a methodology of sorting through raw data. Just as you breathe and cannot know how you do it, children "integrate" - but this is a process that is background, already implicitly understood by the child.

Children are vastly intelligent. And I think if children have the right teachers you see, then they will become far greater than any of us can imagine. Just imagine if this is the way in which you were brought up. You would have so much appreciation for your mentors along the way, because they believed in you, encouraged you, were there for you everytime you had a question, helping you learn how to think, not what to think, simply pointing to the gnat sitting on a blue lily in the pond when they start asking "but who made god daddy"?

I fully accept that children are very intelligent, when I spoke of brain development I meant other things as well, such as emotional development, I guess what I'm saying is that I don't like the idea of children in this society with what guidance I and most can provide running the risk of a traumatic experience. I understand that these experiences are where much learning comes from, but I think that there is plenty of learning and magic that comes simply from childhood.
 
I second Mustelid on this. Childhood is already magic enought by itself : no need for re-evaluations, re-wireing, and all other "re" when ideas are just starting to form. The thing is idea's should never be considered complete, thus one of the virtues of psychedelics as it shows us how absurd it is to think the opposite ! If you forget childhood : take psychedelics.

Of course I might not be considering other aspects, but when you only look at this one I belive it is enought to say that young children should not consume any psychedelic substances.
 
Here's my take on this :
Raising a child is an incredibly complex and demanding task; especially in today's information-saturated, fast-paced, high-tech world.
Children have A LOT to learn and be responsible for without altering their consciousness.
I've found that LSD and other Psychedelics actually bring me back to being a child.
Those intense feelings of wonder & joy & learning.
Life is MAGICAL for children, they live in a psychedelic experience already (we all do).
We can slowly lose that magic as we mature.

So my answer to whether I would give psychedelic drugs to my CHILDREN (when they're still CHILDREN):

No way, their brain is developing and learning at a very immense rate already, no need to alter that.
There is more than enough things for me to teach them and them to learn on their own.
Let nature take it's course.

As for whether I would discuss psychedelics with my children once they reach, what I consider to be, MATURITY:

Yes. Although I certainly WOULD NOT force it on them or even pressure them.
It is very important to pass down knowledge to the youth but not to force it on them.
I would openly and honestly discuss my experiences and unbiased truth regarding psychedelics, because I believe that psychedelics can lead to profound experiences that are highly valuable.
Whether or not they want to use them is entirely their mature conscious choice.
Psychedelics can be great tools to use, but I certainly don't believe they are necessary in life.



Anamnesia said:
Who are we to decide how we should educate our children?
Who are we to decide what kind of mental worlds human beings should be allowed to inhabit?
Discretion, patience, and attention to detail are three cardinal virtues one learns growing mushrooms,
which come in handy for the trip itself. But I've come to a point where I cannot see a valid distinction between the trip of the mushroom, (or the trip of any entheogen) and the trip of everyday so-called ordinary mundane human existence.
This is important to the point of this question. We will see why.

In a sane society, we would not worry about ownership rights to entheogens,
nor would we be having this purely hollow concern about other's mental health, (which is a manifestation of the former) because -
in the same way new vegetables come up in the spring, and all leaves again turn green without anyone or anything there to remind them how to do it,
young children do not need to be educated to "trip" because for them (at least up until a couple years of age before we destroy them with our hypocrisy) the experience of life as a whole is indistinguishable from what we so-called grown ups call the "goddamned real world", you know, where you got bills and responsibilities and life is tough and rough and grahhhhhhhhh I Must survive, I've GOT to go on living - that kind of thing.

I suppose in a nutshell what I am saying is this:

The question of giving entheogens to children is a bit ridiculous. Because it implies there is something the child can learn from it, and this information, because we think it is "ours", because we are of a dominator culture and subject to a terrible intellectual virus which underlies our greed, anger, desire for property, and our sense of duty and ownership, we now find ourselves on the dmt-nexus if it children should be allowed or if it's safe - and all that is malarky, something like spiritual pride. There is nothing a child can learn insofar as we feel the plant or mushroom is ours to decide whom is worthy of it's contact. Total nonsense. Makes me cringe.

Stop trying to teach children.
Alan once said that wisdom does not come from above down, but from below up.
Children. That's where the wisdom is. Just like the fresh air in the spring. It needs no guidance.

However, once we children have grown insane (that's what grown-ups are called), entheogens are indeed (in my experience so far, and that's not saying much) the most powerful catalyst of reversing the damage (called the hallucination of separation, which is the source of all so-called evil) done to our sanity by our desire to control ourselves, other people, the environment, anything that is outside of your own bag of skin - what kind of ideology is the right one. That's why all these wars are started. Because everyone is out to help someone else, to change someone else, to Teach someone else, to save someone else, to save the whole goddamn world. And it's hypocrisy.

Why can we not simply sit with ourselves?
Why can we not simply be responsible for ourselves?
The best thing you can do for the world is nothing.

Children, sane and wise, know this, but not in english. And because we insist on who they are and what our rules are, we as children forget what we come to find again (for most of us never in the course of our entire life but rather) only in our dying breath - consciousness being reabsorbed into the Light - and then we have a feeling of having been here before. Of course you do, because Everything is You.

Why can we not simply be responsible for ourselves?
Somebody mentioned fear of being responsible for someone else's psyche, that the drug if administered carelessly would cause psychosis or something. And that you'd have that on your conscience.
WelL you know we are each other. So, on the one hand we do not need to worry about this. It's not serious. In the end it all comes out in the wash. It doesn't matter what you do, because you can never make a mistake. If you are afraid of making a mistake, dosing up your kids, then they in that miracle state in their infinite wisdom will detect your lack of self-confidence, and by virtue of what Jung called the principle of transference, will absorb that feeling and therefore learn the exact same lesson, passing on to everyone they then later on contact Learning the same fear. And the whole thing starts all over again with their children. Everyone's afraid. Because everyone feels responsible for everyone else. Because no one knows everyone is the same Self. And that is Ignore-ance, which is separation, which is Suffering.
Welcome to the human world.

The point is doesn't matter. Do not seek a rule of thumb. That is for intellectual babies.
Existence is not a rule of thumb. It's more like a log in a stream.
And we're all logs in the stream. What is one log to say about another log's path down the river?
Well, anything you like - but remember they are just like you. The more you know about yourself,
the more you know about others. This understanding empowers confidence. And your own self-confidence actually, by some kind of osmosis, can be transmitted to others because they begin to feel "permission" to act for themselves just as you are. If everyone does that, you see, the question of who should receive what drugs and at what age and so on is meaningless. Making laws is trying to catch light from the sun in your hand to save it for later.

But, seriously guys, don't be giving mushrooms to children.
But, sincerely guys, you can if you want to.
hhahahahah



I disagree with much of what you are saying.
Children certainly need guidance from elders.
We are a species highly dependent on social interaction and passing of (and therefore preserving) learned knowledge down through the generations.
Without passing of knowledge down from elders to youth, you wouldn't know 0.00001% of what you know right now.
 
Anamnesia said:
The point is doesn't matter. Do not seek a rule of thumb. That is for intellectual babies.
Existence is not a rule of thumb. It's more like a log in a stream.
And we're all logs in the stream. What is one log to say about another log's path down the river?

Thanks for your thought provoking posts. While your above statement makes a lot of sense (although I'm tempted to ask if not seeking a rule of thumb is in itself a rule of thumb :p ), I think the post was more meant to gauge individual people's opinions on whether they would give psychedelics to their children. I enjoy how different some of the opinions have been here; it's definitely an issue I have thought about a lot personally but haven't really read about elsewhere.

Here is a quote, however, that I did read from the NY Times about Zena Grey (daughter of visionary artist Alex Grey):

They are also parents, raising a daughter, Zena, 13, in a household that has been shaped by the adults' experiences with psychedelic drugs. Zena's own drawing table, covered with fashion-inflected collages, stands next to her mother's. An actress, Zena has papered her room with posters from movies she has appeared in, including "Snow Day" and "The Bone Collector."

Family conversation can veer from the anxiety of private school to the swirl of ecstatic vision. "We told Zena only what she's interested in knowing," Ms. Grey said of the drug experiences. "She's not ready, and I wouldn't be ready for her to try it."

...

Ms. Grey described their methods as a mix of candor and discretion. "I basically told her that it's like the early Christians," Ms. Grey said. "'It's a secret society. It's part of our spiritual life. You don't talk to other people about it, you don't talk to your friends about it because it'll scare their parents. And you aren't ready to do it.'

"She says, 'Do I have to do this, ever?' I say, 'Absolutely not.'"

I really like their approach. Personally, I would never want to pressure my children into anything, but if they have questions I am going to answer them. It's kind of similar to the question of when you reveal sex to a child; I am of the school that knowledge about it, rather than forbidding all contact, actually causes less problems later in life. Same goes for how to handle a gun.

Do you really want television and popular media to shape your children's view of psychedelics? In so many places, I see a ton of jokes about people eating a bunch of mushrooms then losing their minds and seeing crazy cartoon characters. But they don't usually show the life-changing revelations that can come from trips, nor do they show the utter terror that one can undergo during.

Taboo leads to misfortune. But also I have a psychedelic tattoo and may have more by the time I have kids, so they will be asking what it is once they reach a certain age! I believe that I should give them all the knowledge and various opinions on drugs, sex, guns, politics, etc. and let them decide for themselves, while supporting them with whatever they choose. Of course I'll be a little biased, but hey, I feel like I've gotten pretty good results.
 
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