quantity of naptha?

[iownme]

i have been doing 3 hot pulls (50c) in a row, using a sous vide, then combining all pulls and leaving at room temp for an hour or so, then moving to the fridge for 2 hours, then the freezer for 12 hours
i use naptha but is heptane better?.

for 100g of mhrb, the total volume of my aqueous solution is 600 ml, (i do not strain the bark mix) i use approx 75-100ml of naptha for each pull, so thats approx 250 ml total in a 6"x10" glass pan.

i feel this is too much naptha, am i correct?.

i have been averaging a 1% yield

 

[Transform]

Heptane has its place, if you have some you may prefer to reserve it for a final purification step. Pure n-heptane can be regarded as an ultrapure fraction of naphtha and it does have the advantage of having predictable behaviour, unlike some random commercial naphtha which can vary from batch to batch, albeit within certain more or less clearly defined parameters.

You'd probably be able to bump up your yield a tiny bit by reducing the volume of solvent that goes into the freezer. While evaporation is an easy option, there are reasons for wanting to avoid this since it is better to be able to reuse the solvent rather than consigning it to 'nature's dustbin', for one thing.

While adding the three extra steps of a mini A/B might not seem entirely appealing at first glance, they do count as an extra purification process and may even help to limit polymer formation.

Integrating the mini A/B as part of the extraction plan would be rather simple. The naphtha pulls can be transferred straight into a jug with some diluted vinegar. This, incidentally, allows the naphtha to be reused for further pulls almost immediately (some would prefer to give it a quick sodium carbonate treatment before reuse, in case of vinegar residues).

The DMT-loaded vinegar can then be treated like the first step of an A/B extraction, with the addition of just enough base, maybe a bit of salt [NaCl] for good measure and then wroceed with warm pulls into the minimum volume of naphtha or heptane.

That should provide a nice product when cooled slowly and finished off in the freezer.

Similarly, the mini A/B can be applied to solid material or precipitated goo by dissolving it in vinegar solution.

One further tip is to add a drop of indicator solution to the vinegar to help visualise when it has been neutralised and is thus fully loaded with alkaloid. Beetroot water or red cabbage juice will work for this, the former going from bright to dark red then yellow, and the latter going from purple-red to blue towards the end point. By soaking sunflower seeds another useful indicator solution can be obtained, but I've forgotten what the colour changes are so you'd have to experiment with that.

 

[OccipitalBob]

Really useful, thanks again for sharing.

Occy Bob

 

[Transform]

Really useful, thanks again for sharing.

Occy Bob

You're welcome!

I just added a further note to expand a bit more and introduce some ideas for accessible indicator solutions.

 

[iownme]

Heptane has its place, if you have some you may prefer to reserve it for a final purification step. Pure n-heptane can be regarded as an ultrapure fraction of naphtha and it does have the advantage of having predictable behaviour, unlike some random commercial naphtha which can vary from batch to batch, albeit within certain more or less clearly defined parameters.

You'd probably be able to bump up your yield a tiny bit by reducing the volume of solvent that goes into the freezer. While evaporation is an easy option, there are reasons for wanting to avoid this since it is better to be able to reuse the solvent rather than consigning it to 'nature's dustbin', for one thing.

While adding the three extra steps of a mini A/B might not seem entirely appealing at first glance, they do count as an extra purification process and may even help to limit polymer formation.

Integrating the mini A/B as part of the extraction plan would be rather simple. The naphtha pulls can be transferred straight into a jug with some diluted vinegar. This, incidentally, allows the naphtha to be reused for further pulls almost immediately (some would prefer to give it a quick sodium carbonate treatment before reuse, in case of vinegar residues).

The DMT-loaded vinegar can then be treated like the first step of an A/B extraction, with the addition of just enough base, maybe a bit of salt [NaCl] for good measure and then wroceed with warm pulls into the minimum volume of naphtha or heptane.

That should provide a nice product when cooled slowly and finished off in the freezer.

Similarly, the mini A/B can be applied to solid material or precipitated goo by dissolving it in vinegar solution.

One further tip is to add a drop of indicator solution to the vinegar to help visualise when it has been neutralised and is thus fully loaded with alkaloid. Beetroot water or red cabbage juice will work for this, the former going from bright to dark red then yellow, and the latter going from purple-red to blue towards the end point. By soaking sunflower seeds another useful indicator solution can be obtained, but I've forgotten what the colour changes are so you'd have to experiment with that.

thank you!
i have a better understanding of heptane now, and where its use is, which also helps when i read threads where heptane is mentioned.

i have other uses for naptha so when i am finished with pulling, i don't store and reuse it for that purpose, i use fresh naptha each time i do an extraction.
i do a final freeze of all the used naptha to be sure it is "void"

i will experiment next time with using 35ml of naptha for each of the 3 pulls.

i took to heart what you hinted at a while back when it comes to the interactions of polar/non polar substances.

i no longer only swirl the flask, but when the solution is up to temp with the sous vide (50c) i pour the flask into another flask and put that flask back in the sous vide to separate, after 15-30 mins or so it is ready to pour back into the original flask.

after those 2 pours i only swirl.

i have noticed a change by doing this.

all the dmt is released in those 3 pulls, and 3rd pull is almost empty.

i found that out before i started combining the pulls together.

i have read and re-re-re read your info on the mini a/b.
i am getting my head around the idea, and when i have more practice with the current learning curve i would like to revisit that with some follow up questions.

the reasoning behind it is to get a "purer" result correct?.

i have 5 viles ranging in color from yellow to white. yesterday i noticed the whiter it is the less it smells.

today i inhaled 25mg of the pure white and the taste was greatly decreased, is this the end goal? ....it was for sure easier to inhale, i think the "end result" was the same as yellow though... although who can tell

 

[Transform]

i do a final freeze of all the used naptha to be sure it is "void"

A dilute vinegar wash on the naphtha before it finally gets consigned to its post-extraction life would get the last traces of DMT out. The vinegar water then could even be used for the next extraction, to moisten the bark.

the reasoning behind it is to get a "purer" result correct?

That's one possible reason, particularly in cases of base contamination, although lately I've also been suggesting it as a means of getting a higher concentration of DMT in naphtha prior to freezing, without having to evaporate any of the naphtha. It can also be used to reprocess goo - as often results from an initial acacia extraction - to increase the chances of getting a solid product for greater is in handling and measuring doses. Related to this is that a mini A/B can often break up polymeric goo, while with the acacia goo it's also serving as a defatting step.

 

[iownme]

A dilute vinegar wash on the naphtha before it finally gets consigned to its post-extraction life would get the last traces of DMT out

with this being chemistry and me being non scholarly, to include this step as part of my routine, which i would like to try, i would need more specifics on "a dilute vinegar wash" like how much water to how much vinegar, and is that total dependant on the quantity of naptha being washed?.

i recently saw a "washing" video and was quite intrigued, alas it was late and i was baked

i assume base contamination is always visible ?.... i always leave a decent amount of naptha when pulling to be sure i dont suck up any base and i often utilize the 2 jar method of releasing the pulled naptha to a first jar, then sucking from there to the 2nd jar

 

[Transform]

From the roughly 1.1 g/L DMT that remains dissolved in naphtha it's possible to calculate how much acetic acid will react with it by using the corresponding molecular masses.

1.1 g DMT @ m.w. = 188 g.mol⁻¹
reacts with
1.1×(60/188) = 351 mg of acetic acid (m.w. = 60 g.mol⁻¹)
[they react in 1:1 ratio, proportionate to their relative weights]

351 mg of acetic acid is contained in (351/1000)×(100/5) ≈ 7.02 mL of 5% w/v vinegar [5% w/v ≡ 5 g per 100 mL]

Therefore you can safely add a (15mL) tablespoon of vinegar to a cup of distilled water and use that to wash more than two litres of spent naphtha, if you believe my calculations.

 

[iownme]

From the roughly 1.1 g/L DMT that remains dissolved in naphtha it's possible to calculate how much acetic acid will react with it by using the corresponding molecular masses.

1.1 g DMT @ m.w. = 188 g.mol⁻¹
reacts with
1.1×(60/188) = 351 mg of acetic acid (m.w. = 60 g.mol⁻¹)
[they react in 1:1 ratio, proportionate to their relative weights]

351 mg of acetic acid is contained in (351/1000)×(100/5) ≈ 7.02 mL of 5% w/v vinegar [5% w/v ≡ 5 g per 100 mL]

Therefore you can safely add a (15mL) tablespoon of vinegar to a cup of distilled water and use that to wash more than two litres of spent naphtha, if you believe my calculations.

wow... that is so far above what i thought was not calculable im beyond impressed and wish we were neighbors and could chat casually about this and more in real life!
if you cant guess from the above statement... i totally believe your calculations in a realm where i did not think calculation such as this were possible.
i did not know "math" could do this.
the "therefore" statement you made which is likely obvious to you and people like you with this education level, has pretty much just blown me away and makes me wish i spent more time learning and less time being the class clown (which dmt has taught me something about!)
i have realtime/realife skills and am acomplished, but what you are telling me shows me i am lacking in a large area of knowledge i knew not existed.
when first entering this area i read a comment saying they never expected to learn so much about chemistry and physics, i kinda laughed at that, but wow have i had a crash course in laymans terms and must agree, i have already learned much which i would never have expected to be involved in.
id teach you to mud drywall or fix your car or the multitude of bland tasks have mastered, but i have a feeling you would be the teacher there too
i will analyze and google much of the above with the intent of understanding, but until
i understand... i will use the last paragraph as springboard to catapult me into new realms of knowledge!!!
thankyou!

 

[iownme]

wow... that is so far above what i thought was not calculable im beyond impressed and wish we were neighbors and could chat casually about this and more in real life!
if you cant guess from the above statement... i totally believe your calculations in a realm where i did not think calculation such as this were possible.
i did not know "math" could do this.
the "therefore" statement you made which is likely obvious to you and people like you with this education level, has pretty much just blown me away and makes me wish i spent more time learning and less time being the class clown (which dmt has taught me something about!)
i have realtime/realife skills and am acomplished, but what you are telling me shows me i am lacking in a large area of knowledge i knew not existed.
when first entering this area i read a comment saying they never expected to learn so much about chemistry and physics, i kinda laughed at that, but wow have i had a crash course in laymans terms and must agree, i have already learned much which i would never have expected to be involved in.
id teach you to mud drywall or fix your car or the multitude of bland tasks have mastered, but i have a feeling you would be the teacher there too
i will analyze and google much of the above with the intent of understanding, but until
i understand... i will use the last paragraph as springboard to catapult me into new realms of knowledge!!!
thankyou!

er ok, just googled "what is molar mass" and i have realized im not as smart as i thought i was.... at 56 thats a bit sad.
wellllll, maybe im as streetwise as i thought i was, but im rapidly doubting that too now.
its been a long night!

 

[Transform]

It's OK, maybe I can hit you up for car repair tips sometime - and I also need to rebuild the northwest corner of my brick outhouse…

1.1 g.L⁻¹ does seem like rather a lot but that's what @Brennendes Wasser's measurements indicated. Thus, the vinegar cleanup appears worth it if you have a lot of used naphtha. I suspect some naphtha dumps more DMT at freezer temperatures, and using a lower temperature than -18°C will also get more DMT out of solution.

 

[iownme]

It's OK, maybe I can hit you up for car repair tips sometime - and I also need to rebuild the northwest corner of my brick outhouse…

1.1 g.L⁻¹ does seem like rather a lot but that's what @Brennendes Wasser's measurements indicated. Thus, the vinegar cleanup appears worth it if you have a lot of used naphtha. I suspect some naphtha dumps more DMT at freezer temperatures, and using a lower temperature than -18°C will also get more DMT out of solution.

maybe I can hit you up for car repair tips

anytime!!

using a lower temperature than -18°C

i think you advised me of that early on when i first attempted an extraction.
my freezer has been set to -20 ever since

 

[iownme]

It's OK, maybe I can hit you up for car repair tips sometime - and I also need to rebuild the northwest corner of my brick outhouse…

1.1 g.L⁻¹ does seem like rather a lot but that's what @Brennendes Wasser's measurements indicated. Thus, the vinegar cleanup appears worth it if you have a lot of used naphtha. I suspect some naphtha dumps more DMT at freezer temperatures, and using a lower temperature than -18°C will also get more DMT out of solution.

i think it was you who suggested the use of a magnetic stirrer a while back.

i imagine it might stir the 2 phases gently enough so that no actual mixing would occur yet the particles could all still intermingle.

therefore there would be no need to do the swirl, the pour or the shake every time the 2 phases separate, there would be no mixing so no separation, they would stay separate yet constantly be intermingled

what do you think?